Doyle Hayes

[Sergio sledge]

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Joe Newell has excellent technical ability and positioning. His passing range is very good, he brings the ball up the field and plays a lot of very clever passes. He's also able to get back and intercept the ball.

Doyle Hayes sits deeper, helps dictate the pace of play and offers an option if we need to go back the way. He allows Newell and Magennis to take the ball further forward with less risk.

It's a bit similar to having Fyvie and McGeouch in the same team IMO. Two quite different players who won't chip in with many goals but both provide a vital function.

That's what I've been seeing this season as well, although I would say that since Allan has been back in the team I think Newell has been playing a bit deeper and a bit more reluctant to move up the pitch. It may be that Newell has more confidence in Magennis providing cover if he gets caught up the field than Allan.

If you took the last couple of games in isolation I can see why people would think Newell and JDH are too similar, but the season as a whole paints a different picture IMHO.

[FilipinoHibs]

I think we suffered yesterday because of the formation. We played Murphy and Boyle wide and Allan forward behind Kevin. This left Doyle and Newell in midfield and we were over run. You could tell that almost from the kick off. Why we had such poor pocession and created little. A good coach would have brought Allan and Murphy back into midfield and pushed Boyle up with Kevin.

[Brightside]

Replace Allan with Magennis and everything will improve hugely.

[hibeedonald]

Just a really poor performance from him, Covid the only explanation I can think of.

[Perfect Hatrick]

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Just a really poor performance from him, Covid the only explanation I can think of.

I actually hardly remember him doing anything.

Just a bad day at the office I’m sure.

[Fergus52]

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That's what I've been seeing this season as well, although I would say that since Allan has been back in the team I think Newell has been playing a bit deeper and a bit more reluctant to move up the pitch. It may be that Newell has more confidence in Magennis providing cover if he gets caught up the field than Allan.

If you took the last couple of games in isolation I can see why people would think Newell and JDH are too similar, but the season as a whole paints a different picture IMHO.

This is where I'm at too - while Magennis has been out, Newell and JDH as a deeper pairing hasn't worked for whatever reason apart from 20 minutes or so at ibrox.

But earlier in the season it was very effective with Magennis just in front of them.

[Fergus52]

For the debate on this thread about whether or not JDH and Newell are too similiar, or if Newell plays more advanced or not - I think both points are valid and the answer is somewhere in between.

Over the season, JDH has slightly more passes per game but Newell has way more through balls, crosses and key passes per game.

This would imply to me that Newell is generally playing further forward, but I understand madhatters point as when you watch us play the both of them like to get on the ball deep in front of the centre backs and recycle possession, so it does often seem like they are playing similar roles.

I think a midfield trio of them two and Allan lacks some pace and athleticism which is useful against combative teams like Dundee Utd.

[Fergus52]

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He and Newell are too alike. Can't have both in the team. It's like having 2 Mallans playing defensive mid. Can't defend and shield the defence and both slow the game down playing 5 yard passes in slow motion. Both got torn apart by a much more mobile Dundee United midfield.

Fuchs is a good player, mobile and contributes at both ends of the pitch. Exactly what we needed in midfield.

Really don't agree with this, wouldn't suit our style of play at all.

He looks great when Dundee utd are pressing and he's charging about the pitch putting in tackles but with the ball at his feet he's terrible IMO.

Only central midfielders in the league with a worse pass completion rate are Gogic, Jordan Tilson, Charlie Adam and Liam Craig. And the latter two are only there due to Dundee and St Johnstones tactic requiring them to try hopeful holly wood long balls often.

Not sure how he contributes at both ends of the pitch when he doesn't have any goals or assists, rarely shoots and doesn't create any chances.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Replace Allan with Magennis and everything will improve hugely.

I think if we played Allan as well as Magennis and had 12 men on Saturday, i think we would have still lost the match.

Why so many players were off the pace of the game is a worry, although to be fair we've not had many days like that for a while.

[madhatter]

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Really don't agree with this, wouldn't suit our style of play at all.

He looks great when Dundee utd are pressing and he's charging about the pitch putting in tackles but with the ball at his feet he's terrible IMO.

Only central midfielders in the league with a worse pass completion rate are Gogic, Jordan Tilson, Charlie Adam and Liam Craig. And the latter two are only there due to Dundee and St Johnstones tactic requiring them to try hopeful holly wood long balls often.

Not sure how he contributes at both ends of the pitch when he doesn't have any goals or assists, rarely shoots and doesn't create any chances.

He contributes at both ends of the pitch as Dundee Uniteds pressing creates chances. Doubt the press results in a direct assist but really wish we pressed as much as they did. That's why I said exactly the type of player we need. I'd love a mobile, energetic midfielder who is aggressive and can tackle.

Clearly people disagree with me but our one paced play is down to Hanlon, JDH and Newell. Assured touches and passes but most things done very slowly.

Counter attack team that doesn't move the ball very fast or very accurately, and one that lacks movement is what I've seen in a few matches this season. We're dying to release Boyle and if that doesn't work...

This weekends game is massive. Aberdeen win then pressure on Glass shifts to Ross.

Back onto Fuchs, I think he'd 100% improve our squad.

[matty_f]

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Some people are very easily amused.

That’s me, that is.

[Fergus52]

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He contributes at both ends of the pitch as Dundee Uniteds pressing creates chances. Doubt the press results in a direct assist but really wish we pressed as much as they did. That's why I said exactly the type of player we need. I'd love a mobile, energetic midfielder who is aggressive and can tackle.

Clearly people disagree with me but our one paced play is down to Hanlon, JDH and Newell. Assured touches and passes but most things done very slowly.

Counter attack team that doesn't move the ball very fast or very accurately, and one that lacks movement is what I've seen in a few matches this season. We're dying to release Boyle and if that doesn't work...

This weekends game is massive. Aberdeen win then pressure on Glass shifts to Ross.

Back onto Fuchs, I think he'd 100% improve our squad.

So would I, but I'd like one in the mold of Alan Campbell or Ali McCann that actually know how to keep the ball and pass a bit when required

One of the games at Tannadice last season he lost the ball needlessly about 4 or 5 times in the space of 20 minutes. I remember watching that game thinking how a midfield battle that had Fuchs, Callum Buther and Gogic in it was about the technical level of Conference North/South in England. Other games I've watched him for Dundee Utd against weaker sides where he's seen much more of the ball have been the same.

Fuchs looked good on Saturday but if he played for hibs I'd guarantee we'd all be frustrated at how terrible he is at ball retention and passing, literally one of the worst midfielders in the league at it. That being said I'd maybe have him over Gogic in the squad as he is a bit more mobile and would cover more ground.

[1620]

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So would I, but I'd like one in the mold of Alan Campbell or Ali McCann that actually know how to keep the ball and pass a bit when required

One of the games at Tannadice last season he lost the ball needlessly about 4 or 5 times in the space of 20 minutes. I remember watching that game thinking how a midfield battle that had Fuchs, Callum Buther and Gogic in it was about the technical level of Conference North/South in England. Other games I've watched him for Dundee Utd against weaker sides where he's seen much more of the ball have been the same.

Fuchs looked good on Saturday but if he played for hibs I'd guarantee we'd all be frustrated at how terrible he is at ball retention and passing, literally one of the worst midfielders in the league at it. That being said I'd maybe have him over Gogic in the squad as he is a bit more mobile and would cover more ground.

I am hopeful that young Tait on loan at Raith is that type of player and will be with us in January. I understand he trains with us a couple of times a week and if he is the right calibre should be available for selection then.

[tamig]

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So would I, but I'd like one in the mold of Alan Campbell or Ali McCann that actually know how to keep the ball and pass a bit when required

One of the games at Tannadice last season he lost the ball needlessly about 4 or 5 times in the space of 20 minutes. I remember watching that game thinking how a midfield battle that had Fuchs, Callum Buther and Gogic in it was about the technical level of Conference North/South in England. Other games I've watched him for Dundee Utd against weaker sides where he's seen much more of the ball have been the same.

Fuchs looked good on Saturday but if he played for hibs I'd guarantee we'd all be frustrated at how terrible he is at ball retention and passing, literally one of the worst midfielders in the league at it. That being said I'd maybe have him over Gogic in the squad as he is a bit more mobile and would cover more ground.

There are a few things Gogic lacks but I think mobility and covering a lot of ground aren’t among them.

[Fergus52]

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There are a few things Gogic lacks but I think mobility and covering a lot of ground aren’t among them.

Really?

He isn't very fast, is slow on the turn, and doesn't really charge about the pitch pressing high when we don't have the ball.

He usually sits right in front of the back 3 or 4 in a deep central position, shielding the defence and getting in a lot of tackles and blocks there.

More of a ball winner in the Bartley mould where they pretty much stay in the same areas of the pitch most of the match - as opposed to Ali McCann, Alan Campbell or Fuchs who often press high imo.

[Jones28]

Disappointing result tonight, but that for was JDH’s best game in a Hibs shirt.

[B.H.F.C]

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Disappointing result tonight, but that for was JDH’s best game in a Hibs shirt.

I thought he was good last night and picked up loads of loose balls and pressed them really well.

Thread on Campbell you could post similar. Same if there is a thread on Newell. Individually, all pretty decent performances but I just don’t think there is enough balance as a three.

[Alfred E Newman]

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I thought he was good last night and picked up loads of loose balls and pressed them really well.

Thread on Campbell you could post similar. Same if there is a thread on Newell. Individually, all pretty decent performances but I just don’t think there is enough balance as a three.

I thought JDH was very good last night but you are right, for all the good play we didnt creat enough clear chances. Newell is the big disappointment for me. . He also played well last night but for all that he is a good footballer he doesn't have the vision or goal threat that a fit Scott Allan has. The lack of goals from midfield is our big problem at the moment..

[Brightside]

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Disappointing result tonight, but that for was JDH’s best game in a Hibs shirt.

I think he’s had loads of good games for us tbh. My player of the season to this point. Great player.

[Smartie]

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I think he’s had loads of good games for us tbh. My player of the season to this point. Great player.

He had a great start to the season but looked a bit lost when we had that spell where we looked lost as a team. It may have been the after effects of his covid or just the fact that we were missing too many players and the team just wasn't gelling.

Whatever - he looks back to his best again, and at his best he is a very good player for us indeed.

He's my player of the season so far as well and I'm delighted we managed to tie him down for longer.

[Fergus52]

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Disappointing result tonight, but that for was JDH’s best game in a Hibs shirt.

Thought Newell was better myself,

JDH had a fine game but Newell created a couple of chances and made more tackles

[Fergus52]

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I thought JDH was very good last night but you are right, for all the good play we didnt creat enough clear chances. Newell is the big disappointment for me. . He also played well last night but for all that he is a good footballer he doesn't have the vision or goal threat that a fit Scott Allan has. The lack of goals from midfield is our big problem at the moment..

Allan plays for us as an attacking 10 right behind the striker(s) where he's expected to score goals and get assists, Newell's role for us has mainly been as a deep playmaker sitting right in front of the defence and recycling the ball through to the more offensive players, like Allan, ahead of him.

Not a fair comparison imo.

[B.H.F.C]

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Allan plays for us as an attacking 10 right behind the striker(s) where he's expected to score goals and get assists, Newell's role for us has mainly been as a deep playmaker sitting right in front of the defence and recycling the ball through to the more offensive players, like Allan, ahead of him.

Not a fair comparison imo.

I agree there’s not a like for like comparison but if you’re going to play without Allan (or a player like that) you need other players to step up and contribute something. Newell was unlucky with the one he put across goal but he needs to be braver going forward when he has the chance IMO. There was a decent bit of play down the left in the second half and it opened right up for him to have a go but he tried to cross it and it came to nothing. If you don’t shoot you’re not going to score and we don’t do it enough with that midfield.