We've not become a bad team overnight, but..................

[Perfect Hatrick]

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I recall reading this sort of thing last season after some of our bad defeats. I had an exchange of posts with someone saying we would finish 7th. Proper knee jerk reaction stuff.

I don’t think we’ll finish 7th but I wouldn’t be surprised to see us finish 5th or 6th. That’s based on numerous performances and results this season, not just yesterday so it’s not knee jerk.

[jacomo]

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The thing is how long will RG persist with it?

The booing at the the game today hadn't been heard as loud as that since the Butcher era. A few more defeats like today and its back to they dark days. The Jan transfer window is going to be massive for us.

The team earned those boos yesterday.

If they don’t want to hear them again they need to sort it, and quickly.

[RossScott1991]

Once Doidge is back Hibs will be a completely different team again. His absence has shown how crucial he is.

Nisbet needs him more than most. Once Doidge is up top you will see Nisbet dropping and getting heavily involved in the play again.

No panic from me. We will be fine. People are just getting more in a tizzy because Hearts are doing well.

[Is It On....]

Yesterday was clearly a bad result BUT 135 football minutes ago we were 1-0 up at Ibrox and top of the league. I honestly believe we really need to keep things in perspective.

[jacomo]

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We’ve been one day outside the top 4 this season.

If we beat Aberdeen next week are we back to being a top 4 team for the season again if that’s where the result puts us?

We can only assess our level week to week now?

Absolute nonsense.

Yesterday was awful though Matty. We’ve not looked convincing since Doidge’s injury. I’m not sure what you’re seeing if you don’t see any grounds for concern?

[jacomo]

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Yesterday was clearly a bad result BUT 135 football minutes ago we were 1-0 up at Ibrox and top of the league. I honestly believe we really need to keep things in perspective.

Aye but we lost. Hearts got a point there yesterday.

Fine margins of course, but the league table doesn’t care. Having failed to get anything v Sevco, it was important we got a result yesterday. Instead we got neither a result nor any kind of performance.

[matty_f]

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Yesterday was awful though Matty. We’ve not looked convincing since Doidge’s injury. I’m not sure what you’re seeing if you don’t see any grounds for concern?

Yesterday was as bad as anything we’ve seen in many a year. A Butcher-esque level of performance. If that was the only performance I’d seen under Jack Ross, then I’d be really, really concerned.

However the facts are that we’ve been consistently a top four (at worst) side under Jack Ross, and that’s where I take some confidence. We saw yesterday’s performance last season a couple of times - Ross County and Livi at home around January stick out, and we recovered well and finished third. I’m sure we all remember the hysteria and overreaction to those performances? They were as bad as yesterday, and right after each other.

[hibbydog]

When was the last time we oughtfought a more talented team?

Genuine question.

Every week we lose most of the 50/50s, seldom win second balls and generally look less up for it than technically inferior but hungrier sides.

Can’t remember when we last did this to someone else?

[jacomo]

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Yesterday was as bad as anything we’ve seen in many a year. A Butcher-esque level of performance. If that was the only performance I’d seen under Jack Ross, then I’d be really, really concerned.

However the facts are that we’ve been consistently a top four (at worst) side under Jack Ross, and that’s where I take some confidence. We saw yesterday’s performance last season a couple of times - Ross County and Livi at home around January stick out, and we recovered well and finished third. I’m sure we all remember the hysteria and overreaction to those performances? They were as bad as yesterday, and right after each other.

Of course, that’s fair.

Let’s hope we get back to an acceptable level of performance soon though, because it could be a very long autumn otherwise.

[jacomo]

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When was the last time we oughtfought a more talented team?

Genuine question.

Every week we lose most of the 50/50s, seldom win second balls and generally look less up for it than technically inferior but hungrier sides.

Can’t remember when we last did this to someone else?

Don’t think this is a Jack Ross strength. He favours tactical organisation and being hard to beat over self-expression and taking the battle to them.

Unfortunately, when he gets the set up or personnel wrong we seem to have very little to fall back on.

[matty_f]

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Of course, that’s fair.

Let’s hope we get back to an acceptable level of performance soon though, because it could be a very long autumn otherwise.

Hopefully we see the return of Magennis and Doidge to the team very soon as well (not to mention Porteous).

Then we’ve got Tate (Tait?) and Mueller definitely arriving in January, and I would think we’ll add over and above those two as well based on the view of the transfer window just gone that the club evidently had.

[Pretty Boy]

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The team earned those boos yesterday.

If they don’t want to hear them again they need to sort it, and quickly.

I was surprised by the level of booing yesterday. Both after the 2nd and 3rd goals and again at the end.

I'm neither a booer or a big singer/encourager at games. I'm a mutterer. I stayed until the end and I recall there being less reaction at games when we have been genuinely struggling compared to yesterday. For whatever reason where other managers have attracted apathy, Ross polarises opinion big time.

I'm wary of placing too much emphasis on the opinions expressed on forums, podcasts, other social media etc but I think crowds at games are a relatively good barometer of a fanbase. The size of the crowds suggest that a fair few aren't buying into this team (I accept there are other reasons why crowds are down) and the reaction both yesterday and for spells during the St Mirren game suggests a lot who are attending aren't overly pleased either.

I was assured last season I only found our performances boring because I wasn't at games. Well I'm at games this season and with a few exceptions I still find our performances largely boring. Not enough to start being a booer right enough.

[tmb1875]

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Bang on Pretty.

Exactly how I feel and it’s now getting to a sad stage where I might stop giving this team as much time as I’m currently giving.

It’s a bit of a chore watching this side, win, lose or draw.

Something I was thinking about last night. The last few years we had a group of about 12 of us who would go regularly to games this season your lucky if there’s 3/4 of us who go. I know the disruption of covid has been a factor but it can’t just be that. Why are people not going to watch hibs anymore?
Cost, football on show, failure to win silverware from a good position last year, 1 win in the last 5 Derby’s, not beat the old firm in the last 22 attempts. Club promising big match day experience etc.. and it’s flatter than it’s ever been in my time supporting hibs. Sad times when you can’t get folk paying £350 to come and watch the games. You can’t change any of that you can only keep trying to improve. Club got a big job on its hands to get folk back along.


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[Fergus52]

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When was the last time we oughtfought a more talented team?

Genuine question.

Every week we lose most of the 50/50s, seldom win second balls and generally look less up for it than technically inferior but hungrier sides.

Can’t remember when we last did this to someone else?

I'm usually one to defend Ross but this is a really good point.

There does seem to be an issue with motivation under him, both in "big" games and your run of the mill league games. We have a bunch of technically good players going through the motions, but we rarely seem to have the whole team fired up and fighting for each other, desperate to win at all costs.

When people say a squad has a lack of leadership on the pitch I usually think its a lazy clichéd critisiscm, but it does apply to this squad imo. Could really do with someone with the personality of McGinn, Brown or even McPake or Bartley on the pitch.

[lord bunberry]

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Yesterday was as bad as anything we’ve seen in many a year. A Butcher-esque level of performance. If that was the only performance I’d seen under Jack Ross, then I’d be really, really concerned.

However the facts are that we’ve been consistently a top four (at worst) side under Jack Ross, and that’s where I take some confidence. We saw yesterday’s performance last season a couple of times - Ross County and Livi at home around January stick out, and we recovered well and finished third. I’m sure we all remember the hysteria and overreaction to those performances? They were as bad as yesterday, and right after each other.

Like you said earlier Ross is always 1 bad performance away from hysterical overreaction. Yesterday was dreadful but folk saying were a poor team are talking nonsense. We’ll recover just like we did last season and finish 3rd.

[3pm]

Better Hibs teams than yesterday have been humped 3 zip off worse sides.

Check out the Hibs side that lost to Morton in Feb 2016.

[lord bunberry]

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When was the last time we oughtfought a more talented team?

Genuine question.

Every week we lose most of the 50/50s, seldom win second balls and generally look less up for it than technically inferior but hungrier sides.

Can’t remember when we last did this to someone else?

What a load of rubbish. If what you are saying is true we’d be down at the bottom of the league.

[green day]

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Like you said earlier Ross is always 1 bad performance away from hysterical overreaction. Yesterday was dreadful but folk saying were a poor team are talking nonsense. We’ll recover just like we did last season and finish 3rd.

I dont think its hysterical overreaction - I also dont particularly blame Ross.

Our recruitment in key areas has been found wanting, we are only an injury away from crisis in key positions - that is not going to get you to "best of the rest" in any season, let alone one where Hearts have recruited pretty well (from what I have seen).

[Pretty Boy]

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I'm usually one to defend Ross but this is a really good point.

There does seem to be an issue with motivation under him, both in "big" games and your run of the mill league games. We have a bunch of technically good players going through the motions, but we rarely seem to have the whole team fired up and fighting for each other, desperate to win at all costs.

When people say a squad has a lack of leadership on the pitch I usually think its a lazy clichéd critisiscm, but it does apply to this squad imo. Could really do with someone with the personality of McGinn, Brown or even McPake or Bartley on the pitch.

I think big part of that is a style thing.

United probably looked like they were more up for it yesterday because they were playing with a high press and hunting in packs. There will be days when a team catches them out and they look foolish doing it.

We are much more passive without the ball and it's all about discipline and holding the lines. When that goes wrong it looks lethargic and lazy.

[jacomo]

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What a load of rubbish. If what you are saying is true we’d be down at the bottom of the league.

Why? We have a top 4 squad. We should be beating teams like Dundee Utd more often than not.

[The Modfather]

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Yesterday was as bad as anything we’ve seen in many a year. A Butcher-esque level of performance. If that was the only performance I’d seen under Jack Ross, then I’d be really, really concerned.

However the facts are that we’ve been consistently a top four (at worst) side under Jack Ross, and that’s where I take some confidence. We saw yesterday’s performance last season a couple of times - Ross County and Livi at home around January stick out, and we recovered well and finished third. I’m sure we all remember the hysteria and overreaction to those performances? They were as bad as yesterday, and right after each other.

It’s a concern that Ross still hasn’t got to the bottom of these kind of performances and that they are still happening. With the injuries we have it would be understandable to see a drop in quality, but not the kind of Butcher-esque performance against average teams where no one gets pass marks (going by the general consensus on here as I wasn’t there yesterday).

I can’t help but feel we’re closer to regressing than we are to kicking on from finishing 3rd. There’s collective blame as to how we still have an unbalanced squad after not losing anyone, which is usually the reason for regression after a successful season when the team is broken up. I can’t shake the feeling that last season was our peak and the top of our upward trajectory. Doesn’t mean that say 4th and competitive for 3rd is a disaster as still progress and consistency, but we’re generally a better team on paper and results wise than we are to watch IMO. I’m still very meh to Ross and this Hibs team.

[lord bunberry]

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I dont think its hysterical overreaction - I also dont particularly blame Ross.

Our recruitment in key areas has been found wanting, we are only an injury away from crisis in key positions - that is not going to get you to "best of the rest" in any season, let alone one where Hearts have recruited pretty well (from what I have seen).

I agree we are light in a couple of areas and the 2 loan signings have added nothing so far. Hopefully Magennis and Doidge coming back will see us through to January and we can bring in some better replacements.

[Lago]

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I was surprised by the level of booing yesterday. Both after the 2nd and 3rd goals and again at the end.

I'm neither a booer or a big singer/encourager at games. I'm a mutterer. I stayed until the end and I recall there being less reaction at games when we have been genuinely struggling compared to yesterday. For whatever reason where other managers have attracted apathy, Ross polarises opinion big time.

I'm wary of placing too much emphasis on the opinions expressed on forums, podcasts, other social media etc but I think crowds at games are a relatively good barometer of a fanbase. The size of the crowds suggest that a fair few aren't buying into this team (I accept there are other reasons why crowds are down) and the reaction both yesterday and for spells during the St Mirren game suggests a lot who are attending aren't overly pleased either.

I was assured last season I only found our performances boring because I wasn't at games. Well I'm at games this season and with a few exceptions I still find our performances largely boring. Not enough to start being a booer right enough.

A very well argued post, perfectly sums up my thoughts. Jack Ross for me approaches games in a cautious manner with a view to not loosing, much like Steve Clarke 's set up at Kilmarnock & Scotland.

[lord bunberry]

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Why? We have a top 4 squad. We should be beating teams like Dundee Utd more often than not.

We do beat them more often than not. Yesterday was a shocking performance, but it’s not normal for us to lose like that.

[matty_f]

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I was surprised by the level of booing yesterday. Both after the 2nd and 3rd goals and again at the end.

I'm neither a booer or a big singer/encourager at games. I'm a mutterer. I stayed until the end and I recall there being less reaction at games when we have been genuinely struggling compared to yesterday. For whatever reason where other managers have attracted apathy, Ross polarises opinion big time.

I'm wary of placing too much emphasis on the opinions expressed on forums, podcasts, other social media etc but I think crowds at games are a relatively good barometer of a fanbase. The size of the crowds suggest that a fair few aren't buying into this team (I accept there are other reasons why crowds are down) and the reaction both yesterday and for spells during the St Mirren game suggests a lot who are attending aren't overly pleased either.

I was assured last season I only found our performances boring because I wasn't at games. Well I'm at games this season and with a few exceptions I still find our performances largely boring. Not enough to start being a booer right enough.

On your last paragraph, surely you were able to draw your own conclusions as to why you were bored at games?

Joking aside, it’s definitely made a difference to me watching live to watching on TV. The experiences and interest levels are night and day.

[matty_f]

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We do beat them more often than not. Yesterday was a shocking performance, but it’s not normal for us to lose like that.

a 1-3 win away just a few weeks ago, for instance.

[easty]

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You’re right we’ve not become a bad team. We had a mare today, but we’ll still comfortably finish third.

Exactly.

If we don’t lose Porto to the red card at Ibrox, then we take something from that game, and today would probably have been a vastly different game.

Yesterday was a **** show, performance and result. That’s an exception rather than the norm though.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Why? We have a top 4 squad. We should be beating teams like Dundee Utd more often than not.

Which we do. We beat them 3 times last season and already once this.

[madhatter]

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a 1-3 win away just a few weeks ago, for instance.

I see your point but Joe Newell said Dundee United outplayed us in large spells during that game as well.

The same was the case against St Mirren. We've scraped wins or points when we probably didn't deserve them.

I won't go into the debate on wins and losses more than that. It might just be my opinion but we are awful to watch and I think the atmosphere at ER shows that. We are boring. If Boyle gets injured we will be struggling even more than we are now - he, and possibly Magennis, are the only 2 players that can often change the pace of our play.

Doidge injury was a disaster and is having clear affects on our play. Boyle, or evidently Porteous, getting injured and we are in murky waters...

We have players that just pad out the squad but have zero affect on our starting line up: Wood, Scott, Hallberg, Wright, Mackie, Gullan, Mackay. You can add in the players that are coming to their end: Allan, McGregor and Stevenson. Then the injury prone: Murphy.

Doidge might not be back properly for some time, if ever to the same level. We need major squad changes in January and I think we've wasted budget on players to make up numbers, based on them never getting games. This will probably hinder us in the window.

For me, our style of play under Ross has largely been boring. Not just this season or in that one game.

[hibee-boys]

We were without 4 first team regulars in Mcginn, Porteous, Magennis and Doidge, pretty sure most teams struggle with injuries of key players but we just don’t seem to have the players of sufficient quality to replace a decent starting XI. The bench was very weak again yesterday.