Graeme Mathie Away?

[calumhibee1]

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He clearly states he’s knows that no one wants to move to last minute. 😂

He clearly states he wants us to learn from it and be on the front foot.😂

[Peevemor]

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I would like to think there is a place for JC. He worked at those very sciences from a young age and, ensuring this was instilled in young players, would be an excellent addition to our progress going forward.

Daz, Lewis & SDG are probably more up to date on sports science & nutrition than John Collins. From what I can gather they also have exemplary styles of life away from the pitch. They don't have Billy-bigbaws attitudes either.

Just sayin'

[Brightside]

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He clearly states he wants us to learn from it and be on the front foot.😂

It wont stop last minute deals not going through... 100s are in that boat.

[bigwheel]

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It wont stop last minute deals not going through... 100s are in that boat.

It won’t for sure - availability , panic and value will always drive that …it is an interesting change of tone though. Many on here were questioning how slow and late we were in the last window ..and it appears our owners shares that view to some extent …

[MrSmith]

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Daz, Lewis & SDG are probably more up to date on sports science & nutrition than John Collins. From what I can gather they also have exemplary styles of life away from the pitch. They don't have Billy-bigbaws attitudes either.

Just sayin'

I know and I totally get it. If JC could become a little more humble, he has a wealth of experience to share.

[calumhibee1]

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It wont stop last minute deals not going through... 100s are in that boat.

I dont think anybody would have read what he said and come to the conclusion that’s what he was saying would happen.

We’ve sacked Mathie and a week afterwards our owner is coming out and saying he doesn’t get why it’s a last minute rush to get players in which we seem to have been particularly bad for recently and that he doesn’t want us operating like we have been in future. I don’t think anyone is thinking that means that we’ll no longer do deals at the last minute but Ron clearly thinks we rely far too heavily on them. When something goes wrong like it did this window then you’re screwed for months until the next window.

[Smartie]

I think the majority of business should be done early with the late moves being opportunistic or the icing on the cake.

Players should be arriving in advance of pre-season training and whenever the earliest competitive games come round we should have a competitive squad, albeit possibly one that is incomplete.

Obviously we don't know the full story of the last window and we have to assume that Ron knows what he's doing, but the team has been improving and moving in the right direction for years and decent recruitment has been part of that. I'm as unhappy as anyone about the end of the window and the lack of depth that we have in certain areas but I really hope we're not chucking the baby out with the bathwater, or over-reacting to one poor (ish) window where it appears that there were plenty of mitigating circumstances along the way.

[ian cruise]

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Daz, Lewis & SDG are probably more up to date on sports science & nutrition than John Collins. From what I can gather they also have exemplary styles of life away from the pitch. They don't have Billy-bigbaws attitudes either.

Just sayin'

It's not so much any questions over attitude that would put me off Collins returning, more so a question over how up to date with the new introductions to the science, etc is he.

When he was our manager he was definitely looking at things people in Scotland weren't using however many of those are now the norm and the science and techniques have moved on. There's a risk that unless he's continued to keep up to date and ahead of the curve he's actually only bringing old ideas rather than new ones.

Of course he could still be at the forefront of this stuff, I don't know either way.

[calumhibee1]

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I think the majority of business should be done early with the late moves being opportunistic or the icing on the cake.

Players should be arriving in advance of pre-season training and whenever the earliest competitive games come round we should have a competitive squad, albeit possibly one that is incomplete.

Obviously we don't know the full story of the last window and we have to assume that Ron knows what he's doing, but the team has been improving and moving in the right direction for years and decent recruitment has been part of that. I'm as unhappy as anyone about the end of the window and the lack of depth that we have in certain areas but I really hope we're not chucking the baby out with the bathwater, or over-reacting to one poor (ish) window where it appears that there were plenty of mitigating circumstances along the way.

You could argue January was poor as well. JR wanted a striker then and we didn’t get it, he wanted one again in July and we didn’t get it even though one of our only two is seriously injured.

It’s a vital position in the team to have so little cover for.

I’ve got a bit of a suspicion as well that Mathie was expected to get someone sold to be able to improve the overall squad. If he’s failed to do that and failed to get in a striker whilst having 8 months to do so then I’m not all that surprised Ron isn’t happy regardless of how well he has done in other areas.

[ScottB]

For me, last minute deals should be exploiting unexpected circumstances, like that boy at St Mirren’s move down south falling through, so we chanced our arm.

Last minute deals really shouldn’t be trying to tie up long term targets or needs that we’ve been chasing all window, like the CB from St Johnstone.

Of course, securing earlier may well involve paying a bit more, but I’m sure Ron either knew that, or certainly knows it now.

[Peevemor]

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For me, last minute deals should be exploiting unexpected circumstances, like that boy at St Mirren’s move down south falling through, so we chanced our arm.

Last minute deals really shouldn’t be trying to tie up long term targets or needs that we’ve been chasing all window, like the CB from St Johnstone.

Of course, securing earlier may well involve paying a bit more, but I’m sure Ron either knew that, or certainly knows it now.

IIRC we put in 2 bids for the CB (Kerr) from St Johnstone, who publicly refused them both. He eventually went for £600k which is probably a bit rich for us. What would you have done differently?

[blackpoolhibs]

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IIRC we put in 2 bids for the CB (Kerr) from St Johnstone, who publicly refused them both. He eventually went for £600k which is probably a bit rich for us. What would you have done differently?

Id have brought Efe back, cant believe he's playing for St Johnstone.

[hibbysam]

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For me, last minute deals should be exploiting unexpected circumstances, like that boy at St Mirren’s move down south falling through, so we chanced our arm.

Last minute deals really shouldn’t be trying to tie up long term targets or needs that we’ve been chasing all window, like the CB from St Johnstone.

Of course, securing earlier may well involve paying a bit more, but I’m sure Ron either knew that, or certainly knows it now.

That’s exactly it. Our main target areas should be secured early and any last minute deals should only be where it’s an exception that will enhance our squad and we have the money for it.

[Brightside]

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I dont think anybody would have read what he said and come to the conclusion that’s what he was saying would happen.

We’ve sacked Mathie and a week afterwards our owner is coming out and saying he doesn’t get why it’s a last minute rush to get players in which we seem to have been particularly bad for recently and that he doesn’t want us operating like we have been in future. I don’t think anyone is thinking that means that we’ll no longer do deals at the last minute but Ron clearly thinks we rely far too heavily on them. When something goes wrong like it did this window then you’re screwed for months until the next window.

The majority of our business was done early in the window though. Its only the CH position that they have struggled with. The other deals were all last minute requirements due to other changes.

[Brightside]

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Id have brought Efe back, cant believe he's playing for St Johnstone.

[CapitalGreen]

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IIRC we put in 2 bids for the CB (Kerr) from St Johnstone, who publicly refused them both. He eventually went for £600k which is probably a bit rich for us. What would you have done differently?

We put bids in for McCart which were publicly rejected, not for Kerr. McCart is still at St Johnstone.

It’s the responsibility of the recruitment team to establish whether a player is within budget and if not identify alternatives. It seems like we waited all summer on the assumption that St Johnstone would do business with us once knocked out of Europe which turned out not to be the case. When our initial bids for McCart were rejected we should have moved on to other options so we weren’t left short for our own European campaign.

[Billy Whizz]

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We put bids in for McCart which were publicly rejected, not for Kerr. McCart is still at St Johnstone.

It’s the responsibility of the recruitment team to establish whether a player is within budget and if not identify alternatives. It seems like we waited all summer on the assumption that St Johnstone would do business with us once knocked out of Europe which turned out not to be the case. When our initial bids for McCart were rejected we should have moved on to other options so we weren’t left short for our own European campaign.

St Johnstone were never going to sell their 2 centre backs. Saints knew they’d get a much bigger fee for Kerr than McCart

[Peevemor]

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We put bids in for McCart which were publicly rejected, not for Kerr. McCart is still at St Johnstone.

Right enough.

[Brightside]

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Right enough.

Tbf we did bid for Kerr also. McCart bids came after we knew we had no chance with Kerr.

[Iain G]

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You could argue January was poor as well. JR wanted a striker then and we didn’t get it, he wanted one again in July and we didn’t get it even though one of our only two is seriously injured.

It’s a vital position in the team to have so little cover for.

I’ve got a bit of a suspicion as well that Mathie was expected to get someone sold to be able to improve the overall squad. If he’s failed to do that and failed to get in a striker whilst having 8 months to do so then I’m not all that surprised Ron isn’t happy regardless of how well he has done in other areas.

But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do?

[Hibee Mac]

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You could argue January was poor as well. JR wanted a striker then and we didn’t get it, he wanted one again in July and we didn’t get it even though one of our only two is seriously injured.

It’s a vital position in the team to have so little cover for.

I’ve got a bit of a suspicion as well that Mathie was expected to get someone sold to be able to improve the overall squad. If he’s failed to do that and failed to get in a striker whilst having 8 months to do so then I’m not all that surprised Ron isn’t happy regardless of how well he has done in other areas.

I think Mathie was a bit hit and miss, maybe Ron want more consistently good windows.

He played some part in our great windows but he did have us questioning recruitment during the end of Lennon/Heckingbotttom eras. In particular I remember the window before he got promoted was considered poor as I was questioning at the time why promote someone who's just had a poor transfer window into the DoF role...

[Iain G]

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I think Mathie was a bit hit and miss, maybe Ron want more consistently good windows.

He played some part in our great windows but he did have us questioning recruitment during the end of Lennon/Heckingbotttom eras. In particular I remember the window before he got promoted was considered poor as I was questioning at the time why promote someone who's just had a poor transfer window into the DoF role...

Not even Microsoft can guarantee consistently good windows

[calumhibee1]

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But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do?

We can’t force them but maybe Mathie is expected to do a better job of selling the idea of signing someone like Doig for X amount to clubs?

Much in the same way a car salesman can’t force you to buy a car but they can convince you it’s the car you want and it’s worth what they want you to pay.

[Iain G]

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We can’t force them but maybe Mathie is expected to do a better job of selling the idea of signing someone like Doig for X amount to clubs?

Much in the same way a car salesman can’t force you to buy a car but they can convince you it’s the car you want and it’s worth what they want you to pay.

Maybe he should have been on commission then

[Peevemor]

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But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do?

Moan.

[Peevemor]

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I think Mathie was a bit hit and miss, maybe Ron want more consistently good windows.

He played some part in our great windows but he did have us questioning recruitment during the end of Lennon/Heckingbotttom eras. In particular I remember the window before he got promoted was considered poor as I was questioning at the time why promote someone who's just had a poor transfer window into the DoF role...

To me that says more about these 2 managers influence on recruitment than it does about Mathie.

[CapitalGreen]

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St Johnstone were never going to sell their 2 centre backs. Saints knew they’d get a much bigger fee for Kerr than McCart

If Mathie had realised that earlier we may not have put all our eggs in the McCart basket and avoiding scrambling around towards the end of the window.

[Peevemor]

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If Mathie had realised that earlier we may not have put all our eggs in the McCart basket and avoiding scrambling around towards the end of the window.

Are you certain that's what happened?

[jeffers]

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But we cant force other teams to make offers we are happy with for our players? Am sure Mathie didnt conjure up a valuation for Doig (for example) on his own without agreement from Board and the Manager. If that offer didn't come in that met that valuation what is he supposed to do?

I think Mathie heavily influenced the valuation of Doig. Depends I suppose how you want to take his comments about him wanting to be responsible for bringing in Hibs highest ever transfer fee. It could be simply that he was trying to do the best for the club, but maybe there was a bit of ego being shown on his side. What I don’t understand though is how we can have thought Doig was about to be sold, but as far as I’m aware we got nowhere close to the supposed £5M fee we wanted ever being offered.

[Peevemor]

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I think Mathie heavily influenced the valuation of Doig. Depends I suppose how you want to take his comments about him wanting to be responsible for bringing in Hibs highest ever transfer fee. It could be simply that he was trying to do the best for the club, but maybe there was a bit of ego being shown on his side. What I don’t understand though is how we can have thought Doig was about to be sold, but as far as I’m aware we got nowhere close to the supposed £5M fee we wanted ever being offered.

That comment was made in the context of Scottish clubs not getting the same money for players as elsewhere.