Conceding headers

[Crunchie]

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Thanks. My dug knows more about football than Tam so that’s confirmed it for me. 😂👍

[superfurryhibby]

Just watched the goals again and my view is that Gogic was poor for both goals. Yes, Porto and Hanlon were dragged out of position for the first, that's the nature of the game, it's dynamic and things happen in flashes. There were two guys marking two opponents in the middle and Gogic was weak. For the second , it's one of those things, but I'm sure Gogic will have thought he could have done more.

I've not heard what Bartley or McManus said, but I'll trust my own eyes on this one. As has been said, it's all about opinions, except those opinions when it become all about berating certain players for the sake of it.

[LaMotta]

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Just watched the goals again and my view is that Gogic was poor for both goals. Yes, Porto and Hanlon were dragged out of position for the first, that's the nature of the game, it's dynamic and things happen in flashes. There were two guys marking two opponents in the middle and Gogic was weak. For the second , it's one of those things, but I'm sure Gogic will have thought he could have done more.

I've not heard what Bartley or McManus said, but I'll trust my own eyes on this one. As has been said, it's all about opinions, except those opinions when it become all about berating certain players for the sake of it.

Nobody is berating players for the sake of it. Gogic was weak but that doesnt mean others cant be looked at too as Porto and Hanlon should be.

Bartley has 15 years pro experience in the game as well as numerous coaching badges. Why should people ignore his views over what you saw with "your own eyes"?

[hibbysam]

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Nobody is berating players for the sake of it. Gogic was weak but that doesnt mean others cant be looked at too as Porto and Hanlon should be.

Bartley has 15 years pro experience in the game as well as numerous coaching badges. Why should people ignore his views over what you saw with "your own eyes"?

Bartley has no idea what Hibs’ tactics were, how we were to set up from set pieces etc. Hanlon won the first header on the back foot which took him out towards the side of the box, the ball was whipped in around 5 seconds later, and headed in at the far post. Anyone who expects him and Porteous to leave men where they are positioned and swap over with Gogic and Nisbet, within 5 seconds are at it for me.

[brog]

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Nobody is berating players for the sake of it. Gogic was weak but that doesnt mean others cant be looked at too as Porto and Hanlon should be.

Bartley has 15 years pro experience in the game as well as numerous coaching badges. Why should people ignore his views over what you saw with "your own eyes"?

Hmmm, I give you Terry Butcher!

[Brightside]

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Bartley has no idea what Hibs’ tactics were, how we were to set up from set pieces etc. Hanlon won the first header on the back foot which took him out towards the side of the box, the ball was whipped in around 5 seconds later, and headed in at the far post. Anyone who expects him and Porteous to leave men where they are positioned and swap over with Gogic and Nisbet, within 5 seconds are at it for me.

This is spot on. What Bartley said about having both CBs in the box would be fine if they started there in that phase. They didn’t. Hanlon was wider on the right man marking. He then can’t just run away from his man and head back to the box. That’s just daft. Marvs comments were in real time also. Id like to hear his views once he gets more time to review the play. If he still thinks he is right then I hope we don’t take him on as a defensive coach in future.

[LaMotta]

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Bartley has no idea what Hibs’ tactics were, how we were to set up from set pieces etc. Hanlon won the first header on the back foot which took him out towards the side of the box, the ball was whipped in around 5 seconds later, and headed in at the far post. Anyone who expects him and Porteous to leave men where they are positioned and swap over with Gogic and Nisbet, within 5 seconds are at it for me.

You've got no idea what Hibs tactics are either then.

Hanlon has at least the excuse of tracking a man, but Porto is in total no mans land when the ball is being whipped in. Goals are generally scored from in front of the posts.

Are you one of these guys that shouts "man each" at fives?

[LaMotta]

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Hmmm, I give you Terry Butcher!

Do you think Marv and McManus are wrong on this?

[hibbysam]

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You've got no idea what Hibs tactics are either then.

Hanlon has at least the excuse of tracking a man, but Porto is in total no mans land when the ball is being whipped in. Goals are generally scored from in front of the posts.

Are you one of these guys that shouts "man each" at fives?

Porteous gets himself back to the near post, Gogic is big enough and ugly enough to do his own defending without needing help from his centre halves. He left the scorer. All blame lies at his door.

[LaMotta]

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Porteous gets himself back to the near post, Gogic is big enough and ugly enough to do his own defending without needing help from his centre halves. He left the scorer. All blame lies at his door.

If you say so

[007]

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Thanks. My dug knows more about football than Tam so that’s confirmed it for me. 😂👍

You should get your dug to do your posting on here. 😀
Just joking, I disagree with Bartley and Tam and agree with you.

Porteous and Hanlon were covering men in the area where the free kick was played into and actually Hanlon won the header. A Motherwell player picked it up and, as has been said earlier in this thread, Hanlon couldn't leave his man because it would have left open an easy through ball. No way was it Hanlon's fault. It was down to Nisbet and Gogic. Van Veen was Gogic's man but to be fair to Gogic, there were 2 Motherwell players there when the ball was crossed and Nisbet was picking up neither of them having been on Van Veen moments earlier. Gogic had picked up Van Veen from Nisbet but as the ball was crossed he went to cover the other Motherwell player leaving Van Veen a free header. He made a split second decision which was unfortunately the wrong one.

As has also been said, we missed Doidge's defensive abilities in our own box. I reckon he'd have at the very least been challenging and making it very difficult for Van Veen.

[superfurryhibby]

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Porteous gets himself back to the near post, Gogic is big enough and ugly enough to do his own defending without needing help from his centre halves. He left the scorer. All blame lies at his door.

That is exactly how I see it.

[LaMotta]

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You should get your dug to do your posting on here. 😀
Just joking, I disagree with Bartley and Tam and agree with you.

Porteous and Hanlon were covering men in the area where the free kick was played into and actually Hanlon won the header. A Motherwell player picked it up and, as has been said earlier in this thread, Hanlon couldn't leave his man because it would have left open and easy through ball. No way was it Hanlon's fault. It was down to Nisbet and Gogic. Van Veen was Gogic's man but to be fair to Gogic, there were 2 Motherwell players there when the ball was crossed and Nisbet was picking up neither of them having been on Van Veen moments earlier. Gogic had picked up Van Veen from Nisbet but as the ball was crossed he went to cover the other Motherwell player leaving Van Veen a free header. He made a split second decision which was unfortunately the wrong one.

As has also been said, we missed Doidge's defensive abilities in our own box. I reckon he'd have at the very least been challenging and making it very difficult for Van Veen.

When the ball goes wide the most obvious next move is the cross. It could go back inside to Hanlon's "man" but seems unlikely and if it did he is running away from goal, facing the wrong way.

Hanlon gets dragged out and too close to a man who isnt in a particularly dangerous area in terms of scoring. He should be retreating to the middle as Bartley suggests with Porto doing likewise. IF the ball does go to the man on the corner of the box Hanlon still has time to get out and close him.

I agree Gogic is mainly at fault, but totally agree with Bartley and McManus that CH's should and could have been more central.

[superfurryhibby]

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Porto and Hanlon were still in their positions from the first phase, nothing to do with them, they had men. It was Gogic and Nisbet back door, Gogic being the defensive minded player should’ve had it sorted long before the ball came back in, then panicked and ended up in no mans land.

This pretty much says all that needs said.

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I noticed at the first porto and Hanlon were dragged to mark men on the right hand side of the box. With nisbet and gogic left in the middle. Surely make sense to pass men on and have one centre half at least in the middle of the box. Captain should notice that for me. He's plenty experience.

Apportioning blame erroneously .

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I'd tend to agree with him, hopefully they learn from it but Hanlon as captain has to do better at organising imo, he ends up with a birds eye view of both goals and marking no one.

See the first quote for an explanation.

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He's dragged well out of position and left in no mans land, there's not a player on either side within yards of him when their player heads that ball into the net.

Yes, see below.

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Just watched the goals again and my view is that Gogic was poor for both goals. Yes, Porto and Hanlon were dragged out of position for the first, that's the nature of the game, it's dynamic and things happen in flashes. There were two guys marking two opponents in the middle and Gogic was weak. For the second , it's one of those things, but I'm sure Gogic will have thought he could have done more.

I've not heard what Bartley or McManus said, but I'll trust my own eyes on this one. As has been said, it's all about opinions, except those opinions when it become all about berating certain players for the sake of it.

What else can one trust but what one sees?

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Nobody is berating players for the sake of it. Gogic was weak but that doesnt mean others cant be looked at too as Porto and Hanlon should be.

Bartley has 15 years pro experience in the game as well as numerous coaching badges. Why should people ignore his views over what you saw with "your own eyes"?

See above, I think there's a wee bit berating going on.

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When the ball goes wide the most obvious next move is the cross. It could go back inside to Hanlon's "man" but seems unlikely and if it did he is running away from goal, facing the wrong way.

Hanlon gets dragged out and too close to a man who isn't in a particularly dangerous area in terms of scoring. He should be retreating to the middle as Bartley suggests with Porto doing likewise. IF the ball does go to the man on the corner of the box Hanlon still has time to get out and close him.

I agree Gogic is mainly at fault, but totally agree with Bartley and McManus that CH's should and could have been more central.

Can you explain how they stay more central whilst responding to the passage of play that took place, kind of baffled by this?

Gogic is a big strapping lad, he's played centre half and he has a man to mark. Both he and Nisbet didn't cover themselves in glory. Neither centre half was to blame for the first or second goal.

[hibbysam]

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When the ball goes wide the most obvious next move is the cross. It could go back inside to Hanlon's "man" but seems unlikely and if it did he is running away from goal, facing the wrong way.

Hanlon gets dragged out and too close to a man who isnt in a particularly dangerous area in terms of scoring. He should be retreating to the middle as Bartley suggests with Porto doing likewise. IF the ball does go to the man on the corner of the box Hanlon still has time to get out and close him.

I agree Gogic is mainly at fault, but totally agree with Bartley and McManus that CH's should and could have been more central.

Hanlons man isn’t a danger? If he left him to mark between the posts as you wanted, he would be left 16 yards from goal, one touch and he’d have a free shot. He wasn’t wide, he was just outside the near side of the 6 yard box at time of delivery. Any half decent player would get a strike on target from that position, Hanlon had to stay where he was.

[LaMotta]

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Hanlons man isn’t a danger? If he left him to mark between the posts as you wanted, he would be left 16 yards from goal, one touch and he’d have a free shot. He wasn’t wide, he was just outside the near side of the 6 yard box at time of delivery. Any half decent player would get a strike on target from that position, Hanlon had to stay where he was.

Screenshot_20210803-224548_Twitter.jpg

Hanlon could easily be a few yards back towards the centre, Porto def should. The pass to Hanlon's man is so unlikely, even if he does get it there he has a lot to do.

[hibbysam]

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Screenshot_20210803-224548_Twitter.jpg

You do realise the left back isn’t anywhere near the ball at that point, fast forward a second and Hanlons man is more towards the edge of the box, on the half turn, and would have an easy pass to him, an easy touch, and a strike at goal from 16 yards if Hanlon isn’t there.

[LaMotta]

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You do realise the left back isn’t anywhere near the ball at that point, fast forward a second and Hanlons man is more towards the edge of the box, on the half turn, and would have an easy pass to him, an easy touch, and a strike at goal from 16 yards if Hanlon isn’t there.

Your screenshot just confirms that both Hanlon and Porto are both in no mans land.

Anyway we will never agree, we won, so all good

[hibbysam]

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Your screenshot just confirms that both Hanlon and Porto are both in no mans land.

Anyway we will never agree, we won, so all good

Screenshot confirms Hanlon is still marking the man he always was, while also in position to clear any low front post balls. You want him to be ‘a couple of yards back’ which would make absolutely zero difference seeing as the scorer is a 15 yards away and Porteous is standing behind him.

[LaMotta]

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Screenshot confirms Hanlon is still marking the man he always was, while also in position to clear any low front post balls. You want him to be ‘a couple of yards back’ which would make absolutely zero difference seeing as the scorer is a 15 yards away and Porteous is standing behind him.

I agree with Bartley and McManus. I'll say no more.

[USAHibee]

It's funny watching games nowadays, everyone asks who's to blame as soon as the ball hits the net, can't remember thinking anything like that back in the day unless it was a glaring error..