Why ending all COVID restrictions surrounding football is so important

[GreenCastle]

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Maybe part of living with this virus DOES include mask wearing and other restrictions, this in fact could be how we live properly from now on.

Perhaps those who are so against the restrictions may have to concede to them in order for society to get back to some form of normal.

I think those who think we will go back to how things were, Pre-Covid, may be in for a surprise.

Your going to get covid whether you wear a mask or don’t. I know plenty people who have worn them and got it and others who haven’t worn a mask and haven’t had covid. The only way you probably wouldn’t get it is if you stay inside and don’t socialise with anyone.

Of course it helps but reality is that like a cold etc you will get it at a bar / restaurant / shop / with friends etc. Catching covid outside is minimal though and the scientists have said this. Feel free to provide a link if this is wrongs

I think it’s the opposite of what you say - those who have followed the restrictions will need to adapt to live without as many restrictions. We are seeing this already with many sectors reopening finally.

Everyone knows things will be different moving forward but my question still hasn’t been answered. What’s the end goal and when do we see this roughly happening / what’s the plan? What’s the target we are waiting for ?

[tamig]

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What’s the end goal ?

What’s the plan ?

Majority of the vulnerable double vaccinated in Scotland - do we just sit about waiting (waiting for what??) or can we accept that daily live involves risk and let people get on with their lives - especially those who need to see a doctor / get a hospital appointment for other conditions like cancer. Not trying to be smart but I keep hearing folk say don’t do this or that and haven’t told us when we actually can live properly again.

What's your view on COVID passports? I think a lot of folk who've taken the vaccine have done so in the spirit of "doing their bit" in the fight against the virus. I don't think the choice to get vaccinated has been purely about self-preservation. A lot of the comments I see on here seem to verge on the "man up" sort of attitude and point to the "vulnerable" all having been double vaxxed.

The virus doesn't just target the vulnerable and hit them hardest. A lot of the younger elements seem to be resistant to taking the vaccine. Do you think it's right that folk who have "done their bit" should be excluded from stuff they enjoy, e.g., going to the football, because they have concerns about the behaviour of some unvaccinated randoms in the vicinity of where they're sitting?

The Aberdeen comment in the OP didn't specify who was hugging who. I've ended up several rows down in a clinch with complete strangers at games in pre-COVID times. I'm not sure if the hugging being talked about is about couples or best mates or randoms hugging each other. I know I'd not have been happy if some random had grabbed me on Thursday night when Hibs scored.

People can get on with their lives while exercising a bit of common sense and respect. I think that's a trait sadly lacking in today's society unfortunately.

[Stuart93]

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At Tynecastle home and away fans are forced to use entrances in the same area. The away end at Motherwell is nowhere near the other entrances so there is a huge degree of separation.
We have the same problem at ER. North and East exit to the same area as does the South and West The surrounding areas are part of the problem and impacting numbers.

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Aye but surely you could stagger arrival times and stagger times blocks/stands could depart to overcome that issue?

Make people aware that they may be held back at the end of the game and must arrive at certain times before the game and if they choose to attend they automatically agree to they conditions

[GreenCastle]

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100% I had a scan booked a month ago and had to cancel because I was in contact with someone who had covid, I'm double vaxed and tested negative but still couldnt go to the scan. I dont even have an appointment through yet. This is to see if my cancer has returned. How long can I wait and hope? The staff would have been double vaxed unless they had chosen not to be and the whole place is cleaned after me. I wear a mask and am in the room around 10 mins.

I’m sorry to hear this and I hope you get an appointment soon. I know there are others in similar situations so can’t imagine what you are going through.

Many folk are obsessed by covid stats etc but don’t realise the impact it’s having on other walks of live.

[ancient hibee]

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I’m not a COVID sceptic, I recognise the tragic nature of this virus and I believe that (initially) lockdowns were reasonable as we did not know the full scale of this virus. We now have fantastic vaccines, we have them in the vast majority of people’s arms, we have given up 18 months of our lives in order to protect the vulnerable. We have done all we can, England will be having full houses on the first weekend of their season (rightly), whilst we may well be stuck twiddling our thumbs and begging Edinburgh City Council for an extra 2,000 fans to be allowed in.

It’s pathetic. Full crowds, masks optional, away fans in. Nothing less will do

My guess is that the largest adult age group at a match is the under 50's. The majority of this group are nowhere near double vaccinated.Until they are I'll be nowhere near a match.

[Jay]

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I’m sorry to hear this and I hope you get an appointment soon. I know there are others in similar situations so can’t imagine what you are going through.

Many folk are obsessed by covid stats etc but don’t realise the impact it’s having on other walks of live.

Yeah, I'm just one wee person. There must be thousands in the same position or worse. It's time to be sensible and weigh up risks instead of have a blanket ban on us all .

[CMurdoch]

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18 months of restrictions, it has to be over now. We simply have to go back to normal, and considering 2% of Scotland attend football matches every week, that cannot be treated any different. Boards simply must call for it and call for it now - total, 2019 normality from the 9th of August onwards, with no going back from that either

I think we are moving positively towards an acceptable position for Scottish football and supporters.
2,000 away supporters at Motherwell on Sunday and 50% attendance at that game.
In essence everyone that wants a ticket can get one.

Hopefully Hibs will be allowed 50% of capacity for our 1st home league game against Ross County.
I say that from my own selfish point of view as a season ticket holder desperate to go back to Easter Road.
I think folk should still wear a mask until they reach their seat or when moving about the stadium.
Not because I am concerned but because I would like them to consider their fellow supporters some of whom might have the fear from underlying health conditions but being mad keen Hibees will attend despite their concerns.

We all have our own version of what we would like to see happen and when but I see no point in football clubs making demands when we appear to finally be making good and speedy progress towards an acceptable position.
One of the great things about Covid has been it's absolute ability to make a fool of populist politicians and show up their lies and spin at every turn. The virus does not cave to human demands or entitlement.
I am not a fan of the clowncil but respect that they have a responsibility for public safety so have to at least cover their arse when making decisions regarding covid even at what appears this late stage.

[Peevemor]

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What's your view on COVID passports? I think a lot of folk who've taken the vaccine have done so in the spirit of "doing their bit" in the fight against the virus. I don't think the choice to get vaccinated has been purely about self-preservation. A lot of the comments I see on here seem to verge on the "man up" sort of attitude and point to the "vulnerable" all having been double vaxxed.

I wish I was as noble as that. I had a crowd of pals at my place on Saturday. With the Covid passport about to kick-in here I asked how many were vaccinated. Out of 8 mates, 6 are already double-dosed and the other 2 (a bit younger) already have their appointments.

All of those vaccinated (including myself) have done so to be at liberty to do stuff - go to bars & restaurants, attend events, etc. - as opposed to doing their bit for the greater good.

[tamig]

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I wish I was as noble as that. I had a crowd of pals at my place on Saturday. With the Covid passport about to kick-in here I asked how many were vaccinated. Out of 8 mates, 6 are already double-dosed and the other 2 (a bit younger) already have their appointments.

All of those vaccinated (including myself) have done so to be at liberty to do stuff - go to bars & restaurants, attend events, etc. - as opposed to doing their bit for the greater good.

Just to be clear I didn't say the majority. I do think a lot of people have done it though. I know a lot of folk wear masks out of respect for others.

Were these all your French cronies? My sister's social circle had a lot of anti-vax types (French) among them. They are all now grudgingly getting done while giving a single fingered salute to Macron. The sole reason is because they don't want in curtailing their vibrant social activities.

[CMurdoch]

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Yeah, I'm just one wee person. There must be thousands in the same position or worse. It's time to be sensible and weigh up risks instead of have a blanket ban on us all .

Positions like your own is where risks need to be taken with procedures.
Football doesn't come close.
Hope you get the right outcome as soon as possible.

[Peevemor]

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Just to be clear I didn't say the majority. I do think a lot of people have done it though. I know a lot of folk wear masks out of respect for others.

Were these all your French cronies? My sister's social circle had a lot of anti-vax types (French) among them. They are all now grudgingly getting done while giving a single fingered salute to Macron. The sole reason is because they don't want in curtailing their vibrant social activities.

Yep. To be honest the majority generally moan about everything and certainly don't like being told what to do. It really is a case of being as unshackled as possible.

[Just Alf]

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Aye but surely you could stagger arrival times and stagger times blocks/stands could depart to overcome that issue?

Make people aware that they may be held back at the end of the game and must arrive at certain times before the game and if they choose to attend they automatically agree to they conditions

That's what they do to come up with their available capacity, the clubs then take that to the council for their certification sigh off.

According to the original feedback from the events in Liverpool they even videoed the crowds to work out a % non-compliance that also gets factored in (or did at the time).

[ABZHFC]

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Maybe part of living with this virus DOES include mask wearing and other restrictions, this in fact could be how we live properly from now on.

Perhaps those who are so against the restrictions may have to concede to them in order for society to get back to some form of normal.

I think those who think we will go back to how things were, Pre-Covid, may be in for a surprise.

Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

[number9dream]

It's not a 50% attendance at Fir Park on Sunday, is it?
I think the permitted total is 4,500, with us getting 2,000 after Motherwell fans were given today as a deadline. No?

[Jay]

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Positions like your own is where risks need to be taken with procedures.
Football doesn't come close.
Hope you get the right outcome as soon as possible.

I dont think hugging someone at the football is all that much of a risk though. I dont think we should be wearing masks either. As was said earlier we are being micro managed to ridiculous levels.

[Callum_62]

So they were given rules to abide by to allow a certain attendance and were seen to be lax at policing the rules

They rules are only in place for the next 2 weeks though so this will be a storm in a teacup

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[Callum_62]

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Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

Isn't England literally more open than Denmark right now?

Everything bar nightclubs in Denmark...?

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[ElginHibbie]

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Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

The fact that they are having to produce a negative test to enter somewhere goes against your assertion that things are "normal" over there

[calumhibee1]

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Your last sentence is a strange notion that only seems to have taken off in British and American circles. I am in Denmark right now and let me tell you, life is normal here. There are no masks, everything bar nightclubs are open, from the 1st of August stadiums are completely normal, with away fans back as usual. They have passports to mitigate this, but even then only a negative test is required to enter.

This idea that masks and distancing are now a permanent fixture of society is not only ridiculous but dangerous. We will go back to normal, and very shortly too

We’ll go back to a version of normal that still requires vaccine passports and/or negative tests soon enough, as England have. Eventually, they’ll be binned as well and we will be back to the normal of old.

[WhileTheChief..]

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The difficult part is that folk on all sides of the argument complain and it is impossible for our elected representatives to make them all happy.

It's best they make the right decisions rather than responding to hyperbole, loud voices or pressure.

Yeah, which is fine if you have faith in Edinburgh council doing so.

Mind the trams? It's only once we had the public enquiry that those involved came out and admitted they didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Mind the scandal over housing repairs? Same.

It's pretty hard to think of an example of a big decision they ever got right!

Do we really want the way we live our lives in their hands? No chance.

[hibee316]

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All of those vaccinated (including myself) have done so to be at liberty to do stuff - go to bars & restaurants, attend events, etc. - as opposed to doing their bit for the greater good.

I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.

[Peevemor]

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I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.

They're all musicians, some professional & some amateur. Without the Covid passport they'd be goosed for attending and/or playing at the few events that have survived over the summer.

Would they have been vaccinated if it was only for the greater good? I think so but probably with less urgency.

I took my appointments the day after I could. TBH it was to avoid a rush and any hassle. Why did I get vaccinated? For various reasons, some more selfish than others.

I hope that's OK with you, but in any case I'd ask you to keep your judgement of me to yourself in future.

[B.H.F.C]

Rangers up to 23k this weekend. Celtic 24.5k next week.

Hearts getting 4.5k this weekend.

[hibee316]

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They're all musicians, some professional & some amateur. Without the Covid passport they'd be goosed for attending and/or playing at the few events that have survived over the summer.

Would they have been vaccinated if it was only for the greater good? I think so but probably with less urgency.

I took my appointments the day after I could. TBH it was to avoid a rush and any hassle. Why did I get vaccinated? For various reasons, some more selfish than others.

I hope that's OK with you, but in any case I'd ask you to keep your judgement of me to yourself in future.

I'm not asking you to change, I'm just giving my opinion on it.

It's a public forum from folk from all walks of life, so you should expect folk to disagree with you and your opinion.

I stick with what I said, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to keep it to myself in the future as this is a public forum, not a private conversation.

I will take back, and apologies, for using the word erseh0les, as that's not nice, however it does reflect my strength of feeling on the matter. I should have expressed myself clearer though.

[calumhibee1]

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I'm sure there is more to it than this, but that sentence makes you and your friends seem like right erseh0les.

Are you and your friends against doing it for the greater good?

I would say everyone I know is first and foremost doing it for the greater good, with the freedom coming second.

I can safely say I’ve done it for both in equal measure.

I don’t think there’s anything selfish in the slightest or erseholeish about getting the vaccine because you want to live a more normal life again.

[hibee316]

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I can safely say I’ve done it for both in equal measure.

I don’t think there’s anything selfish in the slightest or erseholeish about getting the vaccine because you want to live a more normal life again.

That's fine. Just my opinion.

I just can't imagine thinking "I don't want to help people, I just want my own freedoms".

Equal measures of the two is where I'm at.

[SChibs]

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if viruses didnt mutate then this OP would be a cracker

but viruses do mutate

the original mutation was getting under control in Scotland 13 months ago (June 29th 2020 headlines read that Scotland had its 8th consecutive day without a single Covid fatality, way ahead of other nations)

the problem was others did not have the virus under control (first Kent, then India) so the new variants emerged that spread quicker and hit you harder, potentially even being immune to existing treatments as they mutate.

the World Health Organisation has queried the lifting of all restrictions during the current phase (in England) as being "exactly what you would do if you wanted to create a new mutation that is resitant to the AZ & Pfizer vaccines" making for a full *new* worldwide lockdown and back to square one.

You may have guessed, given that, I disagree with the OP and I wish our irresponsible next door neighbour England was not playing fire with a mutating virus

You could flip that on its head and say every time a virus mutates in order to survive it becomes more transmissible but less lethal. Because of this fact I'm not worried about future variants as for the most part they will become less deadly. This is beikg evidenced by the research into delta which is widely considered to have a high spread but low death rate.


If a new deadlier strain was to appear it wouldn't last as it would kill the hosts too quickly and it wouldn't spread efficiently.

[Stuart93]

Also seen a good point, 2 weeks before we’re meant to be back at full capacity yet councils are still only allowing 25% capacity in some stadiums, it’s absolute madness

Surely they’d be better letting a good % in to test it a bit more thoroughly with bigger capacities. Suppose it also doesn’t matter there’ll be no need to test anything after 9th August as things stand

[hibee316]

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You could flip that on its head and say every time a virus mutates in order to survive it becomes more transmissible but less lethal. Because of this fact I'm not worried about future variants as for the most part they will become less deadly. This is beikg evidenced by the research into delta which is widely considered to have a high spread but low death rate.


If a new deadlier strain was to appear it wouldn't last as it would kill the hosts too quickly and it wouldn't spread efficiently.

Not saying that this isn't the case, but scientists are concerned a more deadly strain might come into play.

But it's scientists jobs to be concerned with all eventualities, even the most unlikely.

It's up to governments to decide what to do with the information...

[Peevemor]

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I'm not asking you to change, I'm just giving my opinion on it.

It's a public forum from folk from all walks of life, so you should expect folk to disagree with you and your opinion.

I stick with what I said, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to keep it to myself in the future as this is a public forum, not a private conversation.

I will take back, and apologies, for using the word erseh0les, as that's not nice, however it does reflect my strength of feeling on the matter. I should have expressed myself clearer though.

You shouldn't judge people you don't know. These are guys that will generally put others before themselves.

That doesn't mean that the principal reason for being vaccinated wasn't selfish, but so what? Where there's a means there's an end.

As for myself, people are entitled to have their opinions on the views I post on here and I no doubt have plenty of faults, however I don't think I've ever been accused of being selfish - not correctly in any case.

Yes it's a public forum and you're entitled to your opinions, but in this instance you were wrong and out of order.