Jack Ross

[Fergus52]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not sure about that. On a game by game basis, maybe, but not over the course of a full season.

Home games against the OF, particularly Celtic last season we should be looking to win at least one a season imo.

If we use that logic for the OF then we should also be using a similar logic (although admittedly to maybe a lesser degree) to suggest that nobody should be taking points off of us (or as I said to a lesser degree, you could say not beating us) outside of Aberdeen and Hearts.

With fair/competent referees, or even VAR, we would have beaten rangers twice and celtic once last season.

Neither would have been flukey results either, overall we were very good against the old firm last season and extremely unlucky not to pick up a couple of wins.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cool, nothing wrong with that 👍

For me, the only thing he's lacking is the have a go, be brave attitude. I'm sure he would endear himself to the fans more with that attitude. He meets all the criteria for a Hibs manager - Younger, articulate and well spoken. For whatever reason he is held to a higher standard. Neither excited or unexcited by him though.

You have this pattern of railing against him for a bit, then backing down to you aren’t that bothered and then he wins you over for a bit then a result or two later you’re back at it.

I think you are bothered and you fairly actively don’t rate him.

[Northernhibee]

I think that the changes we’re seeing under Ross are sustainable and that’s something that takes time. Youngsters getting a chance like Bradley and Doig, really sensible signings like McGinn and Gogic and also taking a chance on lower league talent like Nisbet and Mackay. Once we make those three things a habit then we will reap the benefits big time.

Compare that to Lennon who got a good season from sending players out with back of a cigarette packet tactics but a rocket up their arse . It works for a while but as soon as players tire of it it loses any effect. A scattergun approach to recruitment just leaves you with a bloated team of high earners and takes time to recover from as both ourselves and the lesser greens found out.

Jack Ross knows what he’s going, is building a very solid foundation at the club and deserves more time. We also began to see the benefits of Stubbs recruitment of young, talented players who had something to prove before we started *****ing cash on the likes of Big Dave, Slivka etc.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

With fair/competent referees, or even VAR, we would have beaten rangers twice and celtic once last season.

Neither would have been flukey results either, overall we were very good against the old firm last season and extremely unlucky not to pick up a couple of wins.

We did play fairy well against the OF but again, we didn’t quite manage to get it over the line when it mattered. That’s where a lot of the criticism of JR comes from. In the big moments in big games we fall short too often. Hopefully that can be rectified this year.

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I remember the Miller years, how many big games did he win?

Exactly. If Miller was around in the days of social media this place and Twitter would have been going nuts if Ross is a barometer. Even Mowbray, outstanding football but regularly losing to teams we should have been beating and some absolute derby hammerings. I don't know why Ross gets such a raw deal and people say he has a lot to prove. He's been scrutinised more than any manager I can remember.

[Allez Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Exactly. If Miller was around in the days of social media this place and Twitter would have been going nuts if Ross is a barometer. Even Mowbray, outstanding football but regularly losing to teams we should have been beating and some absolute derby hammerings. I don't know why Ross gets such a raw deal and people say he has a lot to prove. He's been scrutinised more than any manager I can remember.

Hibs.Net was around when Mowbray was manager.

[Allez Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I remember the Miller years, how many big games did he win?

Beat Rangers in a Semi Final.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hibs.Net was around when Mowbray was manager.

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

[J-C]

We had some really good results mixed in with some horrendous ones, the cup defeats also stuck in the throat. The biggest thing for me was the manner of some of these poor losses against Livi a Ross C, plus the cup final defeat itself.
So far this season I've noticed a lot more energy and forward thinking from the team and it's noticable he's gone with a 4231 style with Allan behind the striker, obviously he realises creativity was a big problem last season.
I always said he needed that 1st proper season to sort things out and this season is what will make or break him, he's now got a good base and his additions are looking good.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

Mowbray was rightly slaughtered after some of the defeats to Hearts.

There was probably more positivity around his spell though because he delivered very similar to Ross but done it with a style that is possibly the best I’ve seen from Hibs. We also managed to beat the OF and Hearts a good few times which in the main is the sort of stuff people are wanting from JR. There was some absolute doings of the OF and Hearts under Mowbray as well and let’s not forget it was a Hearts side that split the OF.

Seeing as most folks main criticisms of Ross are based around his lack of big game wins - something which Mowbray delivered a decent amount of, and the style of football we play, it’s not really a surprise he was better received.

[Since90+2]

Put it this way, how many other managers in the league would you have over Ross? Gerrard is a given and the only other one you could maybe argue is Davidson.

That alone should suggest we've got a pretty good manager in place.

[bingo70]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

With nowhere near the same levels of micro analysis, criticism and negativity as there is now.

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR. He had Inverness he couldn’t beat whilst JR has St J.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

[Tommy75]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Put it this way, how many other managers in the league would you have over Ross? Gerrard is a given and the only other one you could maybe argue is Davidson.

That alone should suggest we've got a pretty good manager in place.

If Davidson was our manager he'd no doubt get pelters on here for the negative way he sets his team up.

[Since90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If Davidson was our manager he'd no doubt get pelters on here for the negative way he sets his team up.

I highly doubt that if we'd just won both cups.

[Allez Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

Exactly, that's why I said .net was around when Mowbray was manager. Good question. We are all still the same Hibs fans.

[heretoday]

Well we got close in two cups and third in the league. Pretty good.
He just needs to push on.

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

Also, context matters. Mowbray came in when expectations were pretty low and the club was desperately cutting its costs… albeit there was anticipation about a promising group of young players.

Jack replaced a manager who just wasn’t the right fit for us at all, at a time when Hibs had already shown we were back amongst the top 4 or 5 in Scotland and fans were expecting us to kick on under a new owner.

Ron is setting high expectations. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. He’s extended Jack’s contract, which is good, but as Jack himself says we have to continue to progress from here.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

It's defiitely been a gradual thing, but I think things have changed more quickly recently - is it Jack Ross, Covid/lockdown or a combination of both?

Also JR isn't Neil Lennon - though that seems to please and displease different people in almost equal numbers.

I think there's more to it in general, but I haven't got time right now (stupid work!!!).

[bingo70]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

Don’t know about outstanding but I think his teams try and play the right way.

Maybe going off on a tangent here a bit but I really liked John Collins spell as a manager and more than I did last season.

I thought when we were good we were absolutely outstanding. League cup final and Motherwell away 6-1 were the obvious examples. Obviously there were a lot of negative times then too so I’m not looking back with rose tinted goggles, I just liked his philosophy on the game, liked listening to him and as I say, when we were good, we were very very good.

Maybe that’s another reason I’ve possibly never been completely won over by this team. We’ve been far more consistent than we’ve ever been in my lifetime but I can’t remember many brilliant performances that I’ll remember in years to come. Second half of Motherwell away when we won 3-0 is probably the best I can think of but even in that game I remember thinking we were ***** first half.

I’m not saying Collins is a better manager than Ross before anyone jumps on that.

[Tommy75]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I highly doubt that if we'd just won both cups.

Maybe but Stubbs still comes in for a fair bit of criticism despite winning the cup (and taking us to the LC final in the same season).

It doesn't matter what our manager does they will always come in for criticism. Do well in the league but poor in the cups folk will get upset. Do well in the cups but poor in the league folk will get upset!

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

I go with the dicks theory

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR. He had Inverness he couldn’t beat whilst JR has St J.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

From what I remember he had a decent record against Rangers, managed a draw or 2 against Celtic but didn't manage to beat them and won once or twice against Hearts but got thumped more often than not.

Maybe someone with a decent stat site will confirm (I could well be wrong).

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why do you think that is?

Are people just dicks now, more so than they were before? Is there some vendetta against Ross? Have people just not bought into him and his team because of the reasons mentioned on this thread?

Mean that question genuinely, it’s not a loaded question. Interested to hear why you think an element of the support haven’t bought into him and his team.

Ross is under no more scrutiny than any of our previous managers.

He also doesn't get nearly the same amount of abuse as a lot of our previous managers have had.

The worst folk have had to say is that they find the football a bit boring or that he needs to win big games. It's hardly scathing.

I don't think it's people being dicks at all, it's more that people are less tolerant of others' views. This thread being a prime example.

The poster Allez is getting it tight when all he said was that JR has a lot to prove. Mental that that has annoyed so many so much.

In years gone by that comment would barely have registered. It certainly wouldn't have led to such a long thread.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ross is under no more scrutiny than any of our previous managers.

He also doesn't get nearly the same amount of abuse as a lot of our previous managers have had.

The worst folk have had to say is that they find the football a bit boring or that he needs to win big games. It's hardly scathing.

I don't think it's people being dicks at all, it's more that people are less tolerant of others' views. This thread being a prime example.

The poster Allez is getting it tight when all he said was that JR has a lot to prove. Mental that that has annoyed so many so much.

In years gone by that comment would barely have registered. It certainly wouldn't have led to such a long thread.

Am I allowed to disagree?

[S4uzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thats nonsense and clearly not what anyone has said.

Absolute nonsense

[silverhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As I said above, Mowbray delivered very similar to what Jack Ross has (well, he actually delivered more in terms of league placings), done it with the best football a lot of us have seen Hibs play and managed to cuff the OF and Hearts numerous times whilst doing it. He also had a good few abominations similar to JR. He had Inverness he couldn’t beat whilst JR has St J.

Seeing as that’s exactly what people want from JR I’d suggest people have been pretty consistent in what they want seeing as Mowbray was more popular so I’m not sure it’s a case of JR being held to a higher standard because he gets more criticism than Mowbray, it’s more that the Mowbray Hibs team IS the standard that people want.

As a side note, I’ve not followed Mowbrays career at all since he left Celtic. Does he still play such an outstanding brand of football?

Think we beat ICT at Aberdeen ground under Mowbray.

[CapitalGreen]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From what I remember he had a decent record against Rangers, managed a draw or 2 against Celtic but didn't manage to beat them and won once or twice against Hearts but got thumped more often than not.

Maybe someone with a decent stat site will confirm (I could well be wrong).

Mowbray won 3 out of 9 games against Hearts.

33% win percentage, same as Lennon and Ross.

[Michael]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don’t know about outstanding but I think his teams try and play the right way.

Maybe going off on a tangent here a bit but I really liked John Collins spell as a manager and more than I did last season.

I thought when we were good we were absolutely outstanding. League cup final and Motherwell away 6-1 were the obvious examples. Obviously there were a lot of negative times then too so I’m not looking back with rose tinted goggles, I just liked his philosophy on the game, liked listening to him and as I say, when we were good, we were very very good.

Maybe that’s another reason I’ve possibly never been completely won over by this team. We’ve been far more consistent than we’ve ever been in my lifetime but I can’t remember many brilliant performances that I’ll remember in years to come. Second half of Motherwell away when we won 3-0 is probably the best I can think of but even in that game I remember thinking we were ***** first half.

I’m not saying Collins is a better manager than Ross before anyone jumps on that.

Collins also had some outstanding players. Whittaker, Murphy, Fletcher and Brown are a level above anyone we've had recently (except McGinn).

[Danderhall Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I highly doubt that if we'd just won both cups.

He’d have been hounded out long before that due to the negative football and poor league results. Wouldn’t have had the chance.