Low Key England

[hibsbollah]

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I thought we were discussing England in terms of image, projection and the effects of those things on prospects. I like Southgate's personality a lot, but that's not the same as being an outstanding manager. On another note I'd like our manager to be less of a stranger to a razor.

There’s not many bearded managers, certainly not successful ones. Klopps is too much of a mess to be called a proper beard. Roy Keane, that guy Phil something at Hull a few years back, all started to lose when they grew beards. Souness won things at the filthy hun with a beard, but that was financial doping times. I can’t think of any others?

[CockneyRebel]

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Not sure about that. You'd have thought they'd won the trophy after the Croatia game the way Shearer and co were lauding them which surprised me as i thought they were pretty average.

It was the first time England had won their first match in a tournament for a long long time. If you read the full comments Shearer made he did play things down, saying there was still much to do and they would have to do better to progress against the better sides to come. The majority of comments from the press/media and supporters alike followed in a similar vein. Still some over the top jubilation but no different from any of the other first match winners. Definitely more low key overall than previously. If Scotland had won their first match what would the media/supporters have been saying here? Some responses are daft but mostly it's human nature (like those in a season following the Hibees).

[marinello59]

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It was the first time England had won their first match in a tournament for a long long time. If you read the full comments Shearer made he did play things down, saying there was still much to do and they would have to do better to progress against the better sides to come. The majority of comments from the press/media and supporters alike followed in a similar vein. Still some over the top jubilation but no different from any of the other first match winners. Definitely more low key overall than previously. If Scotland had won their first match what would the media/supporters have been saying here? Some responses are daft but mostly it's human nature (like those in a season following the Hibees).

There’s been little wrong with the coverage.

[Alfred E Newman]

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Not sure about that. You'd have thought they'd won the trophy after the Croatia game the way Shearer and co were lauding them which surprised me as i thought they were pretty average.

To be fair, listening to our pundits you would be forgiven for thinking we go into this game on the back of a win against the Czech Republic.

[JeMeSouviens]

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There’s not many bearded managers, certainly not successful ones. Klopps is too much of a mess to be called a proper beard. Roy Keane, that guy Phil something at Hull a few years back, all started to lose when they grew beards. Souness won things at the filthy hun with a beard, but that was financial doping times. I can’t think of any others?

Nuno ex Wolves.

[worcesterhibby]

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There’s not many bearded managers, certainly not successful ones. Klopps is too much of a mess to be called a proper beard. Roy Keane, that guy Phil something at Hull a few years back, all started to lose when they grew beards. Souness won things at the filthy hun with a beard, but that was financial doping times. I can’t think of any others?

Mike Bassett did a pretty decent Job with England

[Bristolhibby]

Can’t see England (or anyone) beating Italy.

They are my complete team.

J

[NAE NOOKIE]

You can't tell from first games exactly how good a team is. Italy ran Turkey ragged, but considering they lost to Wales perhaps Italy were made to look a wee bit better than they are .... though clearly they aint bad.

IMO England were surprisingly ordinary against Croatia, but Croatia are usually tough to play against and the temperature was near 30 degrees which no doubt slowed the game down a good bit.

England have the players to win it .... question is, do they have the team to win it?

[hibsbollah]

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Nuno ex Wolves.

Yes, he’s a definite outlier. A nice bushy pirate number you can imagine a small mammal making a nest in.

[Billy Whizz]

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Let’s see who can boogie tonight 😁

I’m quite relaxed about tonight’s game
Scotland weren’t nearly as bad as some thought on Monday
19 shots at goal, which is high for an international game, England and Croatia had 8 each

[Keith_M]

I'd imagine England are quite confident about tonight's game, and have every right to be.


'Sunshine Stevie' will be hoping for a draw, but I doubt very much we'll manage that.

[Future17]

I see Southgate was asked whether the England team was arrogant and he said they pride themselves on their humility.

[Pilrig_Sauzee]

Were I English, like some of my family (what do you do?) i would be quite proud of the manner in which their manager, and some of the players go about their work. Decent lads, well-led by a good man. But they will need to improve on first game form, they would not have beaten any of the big sides I don’t think.

Semifinalists I reckon.

[marinello59]

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I see Southgate was asked whether the England team was arrogant and he said they pride themselves on their humility.

They’re actually a fairly likeable bunch. Although they might just be putting on an act to annoy us.

[JimBHibees]

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He seems a thoroughly likeable and good bloke but I'm not convinced he's a great manager. He might become one, but he needs a few decades in club football, surely?

Yes don't really rate Southgate as a manager tbh

[Smartie]

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They’re actually a fairly likeable bunch. Although they might just be putting on an act to annoy us.

I don't want to go as far as to say they're likeable but I definitely don't think they're anywhere near as detestable as many of their predecessors.

They have potential though, and I think Southgate is doing a very good job of keeping their feet on the ground. A good few of them have the potential to be erseholes - Grealish, Maguire etc.

[Mr. Wonderful]

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Yes don't really rate Southgate as a manager tbh

He's a decent manager of a decent side. England can faff around with managers all day if they want but they'll never have the x factor that other sides do. They live in the bubble of the EPL, forgetting how heavily aided their league is by the expensive foreign talent that arrives every year.

[Bostonhibby]

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He's a decent manager of a decent side. England can faff around with managers all day if they want but they'll never have the x factor that other sides do. They live in the bubble of the EPL, forgetting how heavily aided their league is by the expensive foreign talent that arrives every year.

This is how I've seen them for most of Southgate's time.

One of the mid range group of teams bursting to get into the group of real good trophy winning teams but nowhere near as good as the hype, even if a large chunk of their perfectly decent fans have swallowed that hype.

Southgate is a decent honourable guy and shuffling the managerial pack again will probably see much the same outcome.

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[jacomo]

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This is how I've seen them for most of Southgate's time.

One of the mid range group of teams bursting to get into the group of real good trophy winning teams but nowhere near as good as the hype, even if a large chunk of their perfectly decent fans have swallowed that hype.

Southgate is a decent honourable guy and shuffling the managerial pack again will probably see much the same outcome.

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I think this undersells Southgate a bit.

He’s done a lot to strip away the hubris and sense of entitlement around England and produce a team that works hard.

Wonder if he regrets dropping Trippier though. Clearly the plan was to outplay us last night - which makes sense given the overall strength of their squad compared to ours - but we dragged them into a battle instead.

Credit to Scotland… England are a very decent side who could tear opponents apart if they click. I still think they will go deep into this tournament.

[Bostonhibby]

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I think this undersells Southgate a bit.

He’s done a lot to strip away the hubris and sense of entitlement around England and produce a team that works hard.

Wonder if he regrets dropping Trippier though. Clearly the plan was to outplay us last night - which makes sense given the overall strength of their squad compared to ours - but we dragged them into a battle instead.

Credit to Scotland… England are a very decent side who could tear opponents apart if they click. I still think they will go deep into this tournament.

Good points, except I cant see England getting past belgium, france, Netherlands, Spain or Germany, italy and maybe even Portugal. So probably quarter finalists at best.

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[Since452]

Overrated England

[Pretty Boy]

I've read and listened to a lot of the reaction to last night from the perspective of England fans and pundits. At first my reaction was 'arrogant *****'. It's all about how bad they were with perhaps the odd grudging praise for the 'plucky Scotch'.

However I question if that is really all that different from many football fans, probably a majority. How often do fans look to their own teams failings when they drop points? I'd argue almost always. We are almost always grudging in praise for the opposition and find it hard to accept an opposing team and manager have set up in a way that nullifies ourselves and accentuates their strengths. The reaction to Hibs v St Johnstone on several occasions is a prime example and I'm guiltier than most for doing it. The failing of Jack Ross were extensively highlighted, the budget, individual ability, fanbase, league position and so on were all mentioned. Football doesn't always respect those things though. How many people stopped to acknowledge the success of Callum Davidson in setting up his team in a way we found impossible to figure out and completely nullify us? Far fewer than were happy to list all of Hibs failings.

I'm as delighted as anyone to see the likes of Ian Wright with his puss tripping him last night. However these guys are under no real obligation to be impartial, certainly no more than Fletcher and McFadden who are quite rightly passionate about their team. They are fans as much as they are pundits. I don't envy the task of the BBC and ITV, they are trying to keep 3 sets of partisan fans happy in a way that the broadcasters in Germany, Italy and Spain aren't.

Nowadays if the commentary and punditry really spoils your enjoyment of the game it's really not all that hard to find dozens of alternative options.

[Phil MaGlass]

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Good points, except I cant see England getting past belgium, france, Netherlands, Spain or Germany, italy and maybe even Portugal. So probably quarter finalists at best.

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Netherlands are not very good, been watching them for a couple of years, England can beat them and Spain.

[JimBHibees]

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Netherlands are not very good, been watching them for a couple of years, England can beat them and Spain.

Out of the teams from current form who would beat England are imo Italy France and Belgium.

[Bostonhibby]

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Netherlands are not very good, been watching them for a couple of years, England can beat them and Spain.

It's possible but not on last nights showing. You'd think getting to play at wembley would automatically hand them an advantage/incentive.

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[PatHead]

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Good points, except I cant see England getting past belgium, france, Netherlands, Spain or Germany, italy and maybe even Portugal. So probably quarter finalists at best.

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Someone was telling me that if we win, we could play Sweden. If we won that it could be England at Wembley in the quarters. I know a lot has to happen for this to pan out and amn't getting ahead of myself. Thought I would throw it out there though.

[Key West]

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I've read and listened to a lot of the reaction to last night from the perspective of England fans and pundits. At first my reaction was 'arrogant *****'. It's all about how bad they were with perhaps the odd grudging praise for the 'plucky Scotch'.

However I question if that is really all that different from many football fans, probably a majority. How often do fans look to their own teams failings when they drop points? I'd argue almost always. We are almost always grudging in praise for the opposition and find it hard to accept an opposing team and manager have set up in a way that nullifies ourselves and accentuates their strengths. The reaction to Hibs v St Johnstone on several occasions is a prime example and I'm guiltier than most for doing it. The failing of Jack Ross were extensively highlighted, the budget, individual ability, fanbase, league position and so on were all mentioned. Football doesn't always respect those things though. How many people stopped to acknowledge the success of Callum Davidson in setting up his team in a way we found impossible to figure out and completely nullify us? Far fewer than were happy to list all of Hibs failings.

I'm as delighted as anyone to see the likes of Ian Wright with his puss tripping him last night. However these guys are under no real obligation to be impartial, certainly no more than Fletcher and McFadden who are quite rightly passionate about their team. They are fans as much as they are pundits. I don't envy the task of the BBC and ITV, they are trying to keep 3 sets of partisan fans happy in a way that the broadcasters in Germany, Italy and Spain aren't.

Nowadays if the commentary and punditry really spoils your enjoyment of the game it's really not all that hard to find dozens of alternative options.

To be fair a lot of their media have acknowledged Scotland in context being excellent last night, though Rio Ferdinand did himself no favours by virtually dismissing us and giving the impression that he believes England are a fantastic team.
Journalists/Pundits appear to focus on the domestic league, ignoring the fact that there are a lot of great players playing in the other leagues, they also seem to be oblivious to the influence that players from other parts of the world have on their own youngsters and finally that there are potentially super youngsters playing in Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga and Ligue 1 to name but a few.

[CMurdoch]

Good post from Pretty Boy above covers the media and fan issues.

In reality the tournament doesn't start for the big teams, inc. England, until after the group stage.
The group games are warm ups for them. Avoid injuries and suspensions.

Only France have had to flex their muscles so far due to playing Germany.
Italy have won their 2 games well but the opposition have been poor.

England are highly unlikely to win the tournament. They need Kane to do his thing. He is missing Son who is a great foil for him at Spurs. I don't watch a lot of English football so don't know how good their young guys are but Sterling still looks better than most of them.

I think Mbappe will be the guy that makes the difference and wins the trophy for France with Italy 2nd favs.
Meantime England are still in the pack with the other big fish.

[Since452]

Saw the clip on Twitter of Rio Ferdinand saying England were definitely going to win last night. Arrogant and ignorant. Exactly the kind of thing that gets people's backs up. Heaps unnecessary pressure on their own players too. But then again you've got folk like Fodden cutting around like Eminem so maybe they believe their own hype.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Saw the clip on Twitter of Rio Ferdinand saying England were definitely going to win last night. Arrogant and ignorant. Exactly the kind of thing that gets people's backs up. Heaps unnecessary pressure on their own players too. But then again you've got folk like Fodden cutting around like Eminem so maybe they believe their own hype.

Tbf, he's taken the slagging well today.