Scotland V Czech Republic

[Peevemor]

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It's very different pinging a 50 yard pass to someone compared to trying to score, the two don't really compare.

Plus it's not as simple as just hitting the target. If you take the still from where the ball crosses the line, he's having to pitch the ball - at pace - between the bar and where Marshall ends up. There's hardly any margin for error from 50 yards.

You don't have to have brilliant technique or plan exactly what you're doing to beat a keeper who's off his line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ4o4_c-ODE

[mcohibs]

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With respect that's nonsense. At least where I'm concerned. Don't know how old you are but you sound like my son...and that's perfectly OK. I remember all the Scottish sides with really class players even though as a team they underperformed. Years of failure deadens the enthusiasm though. If your age puts you in a category where this is an accomplishment then good on you, Scotland needs fans like you. For me and plenty others my age we're a bit beaten and broken with it all.

Just as an afterthought....you'll never hear me slagging the team or individual players like many so called fans. I know their level and expect nothing.

Not sure the condescending 'how old are you' stuff is necessary or relevant to be honest. Nor do I see why you would assume I was younger than yourself based on my original post. In answer to your question though I'm old enough to have seen us play in a major tournament before, hence the excitement at this one coming around after such a long absence.

My point was that I don't understand how any Scottish football fan couldn't have been enthusiastic, hopeful, excited, anxious, nervous etc. about yesterday's game. The majority of the country experienced these emotions yesterday, some with only a passing interest in the sport. So I find it odd when I come across Scottish football fans who have a 'disassociation' with the national team. It's something I encounter every now and then and honestly can't get my head around it. Each to their own though, as I say.

Out of interest, have you never been 'beaten and broken' by watching Hibs over the years? Or is it just the national team that you've got fed up with?

[Hibrandenburg]

First comment after watching that at home with a bunch of German friends.

Our build up from the back was reminiscent of World Cup tactics from the 1970's. Slow and laborious trying to pull the Czechs out of position. We missed Tierney and the ability to take the game to them at pace from defence.

Off the ball movement was non existent at times with little or no noticeable difference between our formation with or without the ball.

We're at a similar level of ability as the Czechs, they were just much better organised.

The first goal was due to them winning one aerial battle in the box, it happens.

The 2nd goal was a fantastic opportunistic effort. The blistering speed at the change of play direction was caused by a shot being deflected back behind our defensive line and falling at the feet of a player who had already noticed Marshall well out of position and knew what he'd do if the opportunity presented itself. It was the perfect storm and credit has to go to Schick for his foresight and execution of the goal as well as criticism for Marshall for being so far forward. It would be interesting to hear if Marshall's position was his own idea or the manager's.

Summary:

We're nowhere near as good as some appeared to think we are.

The scene is now set for the usual heroic finally, where we get sent home for failing to do the easy bit but nearly achieve the impossible.

[Bangkok Hibby]

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Not sure the condescending 'how old are you' stuff is necessary or relevant to be honest. Nor do I see why you would assume I was younger than yourself based on my original post. In answer to your question though I'm old enough to have seen us play in a major tournament before, hence the excitement at this one coming around after such a long absence.

My point was that I don't understand how any Scottish football fan couldn't have been enthusiastic, hopeful, excited, anxious, nervous etc. about yesterday's game. The majority of the country experienced these emotions yesterday, some with only a passing interest in the sport. So I find it odd when I come across Scottish football fans who have a 'disassociation' with the national team. It's something I encounter every now and then and honestly can't get my head around it. Each to their own though, as I say.

Out of interest, have you never been 'beaten and broken' by watching Hibs over the years? Or is it just the national team that you've got fed up with?

Indeed each to their own. Unsure how you feel I was condescending as I was trying to answer you honestly. Please read again, I didn't ask how old you were but I did say you sound like my son. Of course you could be any age to agree with him.

We've all been let down by Hibs but for me (a wee laddie from Leith) the feelings run much deeper.

[Sylar]

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First comment after watching that at home with a bunch of German friends.

Our build up from the back was reminiscent of World Cup tactics from the 1970's. Slow and laborious trying to pull the Czechs out of position. We missed Tierney and the ability to take the game to them at pace from defence.

Off the ball movement was non existent at times with little or no noticeable difference between our formation with or without the ball.

We're at a similar level of ability as the Czechs, they were just much better organised.

The first goal was due to them winning one aerial battle in the box, it happens.

The 2nd goal was a fantastic opportunistic effort. The blistering speed at the change of play direction was caused by a shot being deflected back behind our defensive line and falling at the feet of a player who had already noticed Marshall well out of position and knew what he'd do if the opportunity presented itself. It was the perfect storm and credit has to go to Schick for his foresight and execution of the goal as well as criticism for Marshall for being so far forward. It would be interesting to hear if Marshall's position was his own idea or the manager's.

Summary:

We're nowhere near as good as some appeared to think we are.

The scene is now set for the usual heroic finally, where we get sent home for failing to do the easy bit but nearly achieve the impossible.

I honestly don't know how many Scotland fans genuinely think we're that good.

Getting to these finals papered over a lot the failings and inadequacies that we've seen around Clarke's teams and setups. He's been exposed big-time yesterday by (as you say) a vastly superior organised unit in the Czechs.

We might have a bunch of Premier League players who have performed well individually this year, but Clarke doesn't know how to put them together into a useful side - against lower level opposition, he's gotten away with that but on this stage, he's going to see those sides struggle.

His persistent reliance on 'tried and tested' players is going to be our downfall - we should have seen the likes of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull, Adams (from the start), who are form players, given the chance to go and do something. Instead, Clarke sent out a team to 'hold our own' and try and steal a goal.

I look around our squad and see a LOT of individual talent being wasted in a petrified system that doesn't know how to adapt. Final 15 minutes, we actually looked potent as a team chasing the game - we need to start games with the shackles off like that.

[Irish_Steve]

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Just listening to the BBC radio breakfast show - someone
tweeted in saying that it was an easy open goal and the studio hust started laughing. Some of them have played international football and won the Premiership.

Yeah but unlike Calumhibee, none of those internationalists have played in the Lowland League, ergo they don’t know what they are talking about lol

[calumhibee1]

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Yeah but unlike Calumhibee, none of those internationalists have played in the Lowland League, ergo they don’t know what they are talking about lol

Chronic patter lol

[Irish_Steve]

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Chronic patter lol

To be fair, you were the one saying that Cesc Fabregas was talking nonsense about the goal. If that’s not chronic patter, i dont know what is

[calumhibee1]

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To be fair, you were the one saying that Cesc Fabregas was talking nonsense about the goal. If that’s not chronic patter, i dont know what is

And I stand by that. A ball rolling away from you isn’t some sort of difficult ball to strike hence why when players get the chance to take a touch out their feet and hit it that’s exactly what they do.

Just because he’s Cesc Fabregas it doesn’t mean he can’t be talking nonsense. That ball broke absolutely perfectly to the Czech player yesterday.

I’ll continue to talk about the football, you can carry on with personal digs.

[Irish_Steve]

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And I stand by that. A ball rolling away from you isn’t some sort of difficult ball to strike hence why when players get the chance to take a touch out their feet and hit it that’s exactly what they do.

Just because he’s Cesc Fabregas it doesn’t mean he can’t be talking nonsense. That ball broke absolutely perfectly to the Czech player yesterday.

I’ll continue to talk about the football, you can carry on with personal digs.

Can you tell me once where i have made a personal dig

[calumhibee1]

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Can you tell me once where i have made a personal dig

You’re replying to posts that have nothing to do with me with comments about me. You’re kidding yourself on if you’re going to try and claim you weren’t having a dig at me now.

Anyway, as I said, I’ll continue to post about the football so I’ll not be saying any more on the matter.

[jacomo]

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Patterson should be in for the last 2 games. As should gilmour.

Who does Gilmour replace in the 11?

Armstrong had a bit of a nightmare yesterday, especially early on, but I like him and he at least tries to be creative. Turnbull would seem the obvious alternative.

Gilmour is more similar to SJM in terms of the role he plays.

[calumhibee1]

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I honestly don't know how many Scotland fans genuinely think we're that good.

Getting to these finals papered over a lot the failings and inadequacies that we've seen around Clarke's teams and setups. He's been exposed big-time yesterday by (as you say) a vastly superior organised unit in the Czechs.

We might have a bunch of Premier League players who have performed well individually this year, but Clarke doesn't know how to put them together into a useful side - against lower level opposition, he's gotten away with that but on this stage, he's going to see those sides struggle.

His persistent reliance on 'tried and tested' players is going to be our downfall - we should have seen the likes of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull, Adams (from the start), who are form players, given the chance to go and do something. Instead, Clarke sent out a team to 'hold our own' and try and steal a goal.

I look around our squad and see a LOT of individual talent being wasted in a petrified system that doesn't know how to adapt. Final 15 minutes, we actually looked potent as a team chasing the game - we need to start games with the shackles off like that.

Agree with all of this.

[calumhibee1]

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Who does Gilmour replace in the 11?

Armstrong had a bit of a nightmare yesterday, especially early on, but I like him and he at least tries to be creative. Turnbull would seem the obvious alternative.

Gilmour is more similar to SJM in terms of the role he plays.

I would say my three would be SJM, McTominay and Gilmour so it would be Armstrong he’d be replacing from yesterday’s team, McGregor from the team we seem to have been playing most of the time recently.

I said before yesterday I reckoned that should be the three. Armstrong done nothing yesterday to convince me otherwise. Admittedly the other two were rotten as well but they’ve shown a bit more for Scotland recently then Armstrong or McGregor have imo.

[WeeRussell]

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And I stand by that. A ball rolling away from you isn’t some sort of difficult ball to strike hence why when players get the chance to take a touch out their feet and hit it that’s exactly what they do.

Just because he’s Cesc Fabregas it doesn’t mean he can’t be talking nonsense. That ball broke absolutely perfectly to the Czech player yesterday.

I’ll continue to talk about the football, you can carry on with personal digs.

Sorry mate but players generally don’t take a touch in order to start the ball rolling away from them. Getting the ball under control or, away from an opponent, or as you said yourself, getting it out from their feet is what the first touch is for. They’re not trying to get it rolling away from them to line up a shot or cross.

Cesc kens.

[calumhibee1]

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Sorry mate but players generally don’t take a touch in order to start the ball rolling away from them. Getting the ball under control or, away from an opponent, or as you said yourself, getting it out from their feet is what the first touch is for. They’re not trying to get it rolling away from them to line up a shot or cross.

Cesc kens.

And what is the ball doing once they take that touch?

Rolling away from them. The ball is rarely dead in football. Once you’ve taken a touch, the ball is rolling away from you.

Let’s use some famous goals in Hibs matches. Of course since we’re talking about a goal scored with the guys feet and not his head then we’ll use goals scored with the feet.

Stokes in the cup final. Gets the ball. Touches the ball ahead of himself, or away from himself if you will. Hits the ball when it’s rolling away from him. Scores.

Halliday in the cup final. Touch out his feet, away from himself, scores.

Riordan V Hearts from 30 yards. Touch out the feet, ball rolling away from himself. Scores.

The vast majority of goals in football follow that same pattern. Touch out the feet or touch ahead of yourself on the dribble. Ball is rolling away from you.

[hibsbollah]

Not to make a specific point, but it’s worth noting that Scotland won XG quite comfortably, 2.31 to Czechia’s 0.91. Amongst a lot of justified unhappiness, the bottom line was Schick took his chances, we didn’t, and their goalie was excellent repeatedly.

Che Adams needs to start against England, and Nisbet deserves another opportunity. Sometimes it’s just as simple as taking your chances. We created numerous.

[calumhibee1]

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Not to make a specific point, but it’s worth noting that Scotland won XG quite comfortably, 2.31 to Czechia’s 0.91. Amongst a lot of justified unhappiness, the bottom line was Schick took his chances, we didn’t, and their goalie was excellent repeatedly.

Che Adams needs to start against England, and Nisbet deserves another opportunity. Sometimes it’s just as simple as taking your chances. We created numerous.

How is the expected goals thing measured?

I seen somewhere on here that it’s something to do with angles and distance?

[Irish_Steve]

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You’re replying to posts that have nothing to do with me with comments about me. You’re kidding yourself on if you’re going to try and claim you weren’t having a dig at me now.

Anyway, as I said, I’ll continue to post about the football so I’ll not be saying any more on the matter.

You mean the stuff about the Lowland Leagues that you actually started. If you thought those were digs, i am stunned

[Kato]

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Not to make a specific point, but it’s worth noting that Scotland won XG quite comfortably, 2.31 to Czechia’s 0.91.

hooray

[AugustaHibs]

Thought it was incredibly impressive until I seen how far out Marshall was.

Most professional footballers could do that.

[Moulin Yarns]

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And what is the ball doing once they take that touch?

Rolling away from them. The ball is rarely dead in football. Once you’ve taken a touch, the ball is rolling away from you.

If you take a touch and it’s not rolling away from you then it’s stuck under your feet.

I am not an international footballer but I would have thought a ball coming across you would be easier to hit accurately than one running away from you. But that's just my opinion.

Yesterday was a perfect storm of coincidences, the shot from Hendry could have ricocheted anywhere, it fell perfectly for schick, schick hit an accurate shot at an unguarded target, Marshall could have been 10m further back and he would have saved it. Just my opinion.

[calumhibee1]

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I am not an international footballer but I would have thought a ball coming across you would be easier to hit accurately than one running away from you. But that's just my opinion.

Yesterday was a perfect storm of coincidences, the shot from Hendry could have ricocheted anywhere, it fell perfectly for schick, schick hit an accurate shot at an unguarded target, Marshall could have been 10m further back and he would have saved it. Just my opinion.

I’m not sure that goal yesterday can be described as running away from the guy though. He wasn’t on the stretch when he hit it. He ran onto it quite comfortably.

I agree with your second paragraph. The perfect storm of a goalie too far off his line, a forward who’s already clocked that, a centre half inexplicably shooting from 35 yards into a crowd of players and the ball breaking perfectly for the opposing striker.

[Killiehibbie]

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How is the expected goals thing measured?

I seen somewhere on here that it’s something to do with angles and distance?

https://fbref.com/en/expected-goals-model-explained/
xG does not take into account the quality of player(s) involved in a particular play. It is an estimate of how the average player or team would perform in a similar situation.

That explains the flaw in our game yesterday.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I’m not sure that goal yesterday can be described as running away from the guy though. He wasn’t on the stretch when he hit it. He ran onto it quite comfortably.

I agree with your second paragraph. The perfect storm of a goalie too far off his line, a forward who’s already clocked that, a centre half inexplicably shooting from 35 yards into a crowd of players and the ball breaking perfectly for the opposing striker.

If he is running on to the ball, then the ball is effectively coming towards him, no?

It's a long time since I did physics 😉

The velocity of the ball is less than the player but the direction is the same. 😁

[Irish_Steve]

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I am not an international footballer but I would have thought a ball coming across you would be easier to hit accurately than one running away from you. But that's just my opinion.

Yesterday was a perfect storm of coincidences, the shot from Hendry could have ricocheted anywhere, it fell perfectly for schick, schick hit an accurate shot at an unguarded target, Marshall could have been 10m further back and he would have saved it. Just my opinion.

That’s the point i was making the whole time yet CH thought I was having a dig at hime. Cecs Fabregas agrees with you, he said it was easier to hit a ball that was coming towards you than one that was rolling away from you.

[calumhibee1]

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If he is running on to the ball, then the ball is effectively coming towards him, no?

It's a long time since I did physics 😉

In yesterday’s situation he’s going towards the ball. The ball and him are both heading in the direction of the goals. Before it’s hit.

If you’re chasing somebody then you’re both running in the same direction in the same way the player and the ball were yesterday. You’re not running towards each other though. The person being chased is ‘moving away’ from you.

I’d say the ball is coming towards you if you score a goal like Sauzee at Tynecastle. A skill that is infinitely more difficult than striking a ball where you and the ball are travelling in the same direction, or the ball is “moving away” from you if you will.

[Peevemor]

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If he is running on to the ball, then the ball is effectively coming towards him, no?

It's a long time since I did physics 😉

The velocity of the ball is less than the player but the direction is the same. 😁

I'm just wondering at what point we should start taking the rotation of the earth into account.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I'm just wondering at what point we should start taking the rotation of the earth into account.

🤔 That has some gravitas

[Lago]

I see the 2nd goal is now a highlight on American morning TV. I'm afraid it's probably now going to be the defining moment of big Marshall's career, the photo of him tangled in the back of the nets is not a good look.