How many fans genuinely understand football tactics? Do you need to be a qualified coach or an ex-player to offer expert opinion on how a team has been set up to play?
I've been thinking about this since the cup final, after which the general consensus among the fans on this forum seemed to be that Jack Ross adopted the same tactics which had failed on three previous occasions against St Johnstone. But is that REALLY what he did? Did he GENUINELY say to his players something along the lines of 'same again lads, I'm pretty sure it will work this time'? What would that say about his abilities as a coach?
Unless Ross were to come out and explain his tactics for the game then I guess we'll never really know, but personally I find it hard to believe an obviously intelligent guy who is clearly a keen student of the game would adopt such an approach. Was there instead an attempt made to deploy a different set of tactics which we, as fans, simply failed to pick up on largely due to the fact they didn't work?
I do sometimes wonder if it's easy for fans/pundits to be wise after the event when it comes to tactics. It's easy to throw around phrases like 'we got our tactics spot on' or 'our tactics were a disaster' after a game, but how many of us are truly capable of casting an expert eye over a game and providing an accurate analysis of the run of play?
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Thread: Football tactics
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02-06-2021 02:34 PM #1
Football tactics
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02-06-2021 02:54 PM #2
Well, there’s a few people on Hibs.net who remind us all regularly that they basically haven’t got a clue.
On the other hand, there are several here and elsewhere who clearly know their stuff.
Football is a team game, 11 v 11. Tactics is about how those players match up, how they find space or find opponents. There is no inherently correct or incorrect team shape, because it is as much about reacting to your opponent as imposing your advantages.
But the game is also about the individual abilities and qualities of those players, the psychology of each individual and the group.
Jack went with pretty much the same plan and got the same result. We didn’t lose the final because of an individual mistake, a wrong call or a wondrous bit of skill by our opponents.
In summary, I think much of the criticism is valid.
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02-06-2021 02:59 PM #3
Tactics is something I have a real interest in. I find it fascinating and I think Scottish football shows more than other leagues that if you have a real game plan and structure you will do well.
We’ve been a lot better and solid than previous seasons and it’s no coincidence that it’s been out highest finish in 15 years. St Johnstone are the same, they were hopeless at the beginning and through tactics and a way that suits them completely changed their fortunes and won them 2 cups.
I enjoy seeing what we do during games, how it changes us and what sort of effect it has.
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02-06-2021 03:00 PM #4
I'm not sure he done exactly the same thing, but I also don't think he done anywhere near enough to trouble them. We all knew exactly how it would go. It was very predictable and thats on him. He needs to make us unpredictable, make the opposition work for it.
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02-06-2021 03:07 PM #6
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02-06-2021 05:28 PM #7
[QUOTE=He's here!;6585663]How many fans genuinely understand football tactics? Do you need to be a qualified coach or an ex-player to offer expert opinion on how a team has been set up to play?
I've been thinking about this since the cup final, after which the general consensus among the fans on this forum seemed to be that Jack Ross adopted the same tactics which had failed on three previous occasions against St Johnstone. But is that REALLY what he did? Did he GENUINELY say to his players something along the lines of 'same again lads, I'm pretty sure it will work this time'? What would that say about his abilities as a coach?
Unless Ross were to come out and explain his tactics for the game then I guess we'll never really know, but personally I find it hard to believe an obviously intelligent guy who is clearly a keen student of the game would adopt such an approach. Was there instead an attempt made to deploy a different set of tactics which we, as fans, simply failed to pick up on largely due to the fact they didn't work?
I do sometimes wonder if it's easy for fans/pundits to be wise after the event when it comes to tactics. It's easy to throw around phrases like 'we got our tactics spot on' or 'our tactics were a disaster' after a game, but how many of us are truly capable of casting an expert eye over a game and providing an accurate analysis of the run of play? [/vQUOTE]
Bro what...
You should know by now not to ask questions.
Your role is to consume soccer product and pay for your Vrigin/O2 subscription, season ticket, sponsoring the girls team. So suck it up.
If you don’t like it tough enjoy Bovril with your pint and Pie.Last edited by Max_Shah; 02-06-2021 at 05:30 PM. Reason: not as smart as i think i am
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02-06-2021 05:54 PM #9
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Bro what...
You should know by now not to ask questions.
Your role is to consume soccer product and pay for your Vrigin/O2 subscription, season ticket, sponsoring the girls team. So suck it up.
If you don’t like it tough enjoy Bovril with your pint and Pie.
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02-06-2021 06:13 PM #10
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I’m not for a second saying that excuses what was a very poor performance, but I also get the ‘fine margins’ thing. Finals are about getting over the line, and if we had there wouldn’t have been any question about JR getting his tactics wrong and we wouldn’t be saying he was lucky etc. It’s how football goes sometimes.
In short - I take more issue with the players’ lack of urgency and apparent shortage of interest, than any of Jack Ross’ tactical decisions. That double save from Macey should have been a lift and a lifeline for us to really go at them as we were right back in the cup at that point. For us to be genuinely questioning if the players were that bothered about the final is sickening.
I’m not saying the manager is blameless, but his tactics didn’t lose us the game in my opinion.
And to answer the OP, more fans pretend to know what they’re talking about tactics wise than actually do understand the game. You only have to listen to people around you at a game for five minutes, or read any match day thread on here.
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02-06-2021 06:54 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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02-06-2021 09:05 PM #13
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In the Cup final, we should've replicated our first half hour in the LC semi. I think the end result to that game at Hampden dictated how we approached the SC final. We tried to ease our way in to the game and play tight. We'd have been better trying to force things. One scenario we had to avoid was St. Johnstone taking the lead and having something to protect..we paid the price and ran out of ideas..we tried hard but to little/no effect..over to you JR..
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02-06-2021 09:17 PM #14
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I'm sure many of you have been watching home games on Hibs tv and for the most part you will have seen JR's tactics or lack of them ? It would seem that if plan A does not work we are stuffed, more often than not we got a wee cushion of a goal or two then the opposition sussed us out and we ended up playing hoofball ! Once the fans are back and they see this in the flesh then his coat will be on the proverbial shoogly peg.
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02-06-2021 09:51 PM #15
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02-06-2021 10:49 PM #16
Very rarely watch the ball during games I’m at (don’t have that luxury on TV) and I’m much more interested in the movement of individual players within respective units on the park. IMO we’ve had some fantastic players who were under appreciated and some loved players who were hopeless at really important aspects of the game. I played to a relatively decent level when I was younger and my interest in the game has always been more to do with tactics, movement, decision-making and statistics/data than what the score is. Although the score in our last game surely tested my patience!!!
If anyone is looking to read up on that side of the game then “Inverting The Pyramid” by Jonathan Wilson is a really good read.
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02-06-2021 11:52 PM #17This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
this said, i have absolutely no clue about tactics. sometimes there's the odd game where it's obvious (or seems obvious) what needs to change, or when something isn't working, but the extent of my expertise comes from watching hibs and playing fifa, so...
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03-06-2021 05:16 AM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
My eye is drawn to the odd player making a run or whatever but invariably all I watch is the ball lol.
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03-06-2021 06:52 AM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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03-06-2021 08:33 AM #20
Tactics are only as good as the players who utilise them, and our players to a man just did not turn up. Now i'm 100% sure they were sent out with good and informative information on how to win the game.
First off you need 100% effort, did we really see that, and each player will have his individual battle with his opposition player, did we see any of ours win that battle, no is the answer.
So basically tactics only really work if the players implement them, our players were miles short in every department that day, and i'm not convinced we'd have won if Klopp or Ferguson were in charge, as the players never turned up, froze bottled it whatever, they just never turned up to that match.
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03-06-2021 08:56 AM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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03-06-2021 09:02 AM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I was just contemplating if that very phrase would get past the swear filter.
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03-06-2021 09:03 AM #23
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03-06-2021 09:06 AM #24
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I think we lacked intent and purpose from the off. It was too easy for St. Johnstone and emboldened them. Once they scored, we huffed and puffed but never ever looked like coming back. Well done KN last night, pity he was so badly off it in the Cup final (along with others). It still feels sore losing that game with our chances of success up ahead less likely..😞
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03-06-2021 10:11 AM #25
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03-06-2021 01:16 PM #26
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03-06-2021 01:51 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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03-06-2021 02:20 PM #28This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Tactics are only part of the puzzle. Man management is the other.
A manager has to get the best out of the resources available to him. A tactical plan should accentuate our team’s strengths and try to exploit the weaknesses of the opposition.
We’ve all seen games where a team doesn’t seem to know what they are doing, or what they are doing isn’t working, and heads drop as a result.
It’s a cop out IMO to say our players didn’t try hard enough and that’s why we lost. Ultimately, it’s Jack’s responsibility to get a tune out of them, and he has to shoulder some of the blame.
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03-06-2021 02:23 PM #29
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03-06-2021 02:27 PM #30
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