When we gonna get over it ?

[Andy74]

It's about being able to sustain success. It is very unlikely a team bumping about mid table or lower will win a lot of cups. St Johnstone showed it is possible now and again and it was an unusual year, but that’s not likely long term.

Winning cups would of course make us happy but if we were going to league games and watching us lose regularly then that wouldn’t work for long either.

Thankfully it isn’t really a choice. Hibs will try and build a team trying to do both.

What we might class as success is so moveable as we’ve seen this season that you just have to take that as it comes.

[blackpoolhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No, I think it would be more like 99.9 with you being the only dissenter. Who in their right mind would accept 3rd over a Scottish Cup, or even a League cup for that matter .

And me, having poor league seasons where we lose lots of games would lose us season ticket sales, why would you buy a season ticket to watch pish every week, when you could just purchase a ticket every 6 weeks or so for a cup match.

Can you see that slippery slope?

[matty_f]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How’s it indisputable? What would the club have benefitted more from? The season we had or the season St Johnstone had?

You’d be selling more season tickets, be entering a a better European competition if you’d had the latter. And rather than ‘having a better chance of winning cups’ you’d already have them in the bag.

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.

[He's here!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.

And yet despite what, for a club of their size, has been a long spell of remarkable consistency and success they remain woefully under-supported.

On the other hand the boost in terms of crowds/season ticket sales from 2016 has had a lasting impact for a club of Hibs' size and it remains desperately frustrating that we flopped so badly a couple of weeks back. Winning the cup again would have had immediate and longer term benefits.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I’m officially over it.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Immediately we’d have benefited more from the season that St Johnstone had, but long term - unless we were doing that every season, it’sa boom and bust strategy.


Consistently achieving third sets us up to win cups more often because of the wider benefits.

St Johnstone’s consistent top 6 finishes over the last however many years has given them the platform to win cups. The evidence odd right in front of you.

Prior to this season St Johnstone finished 6th (on PPG), 7th and 8th. And changed their manager. Hardly a great platform IMO. They just took the once in a generation opportunities that had presented themselves in the cups. I’m not sure they steadily built towards it over a period of time.

[matty_f]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Prior to this season St Johnstone finished 6th (on PPG), 7th and 8th. And changed their manager. Hardly a great platform IMO. They just took the once in a generation opportunities that had presented themselves in the cups. I’m not sure they steadily built towards it over a period of time.

Fair enough, i thought they’d pretty much been an ever present in the top six over the last however many years.

Edit : actually stand by my point, in 8 out of the last ten seasons they’ve finished top 6, including a 3rd place and three consecutive seasons in fourth.

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’m officially over it.

I’m not even close.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fair enough, i thought they’d pretty much been an ever present in the top six over the last however many years.

Edit : actually stand by my point, in 8 out of the last ten seasons they’ve finished top 6, including a 3rd place and three consecutive seasons in fourth.

I’d take your point when looking at their 2014 win but not this season. They’d been a fair bit poorer for a good couple of years and transitioning to a new manager as well.

I don’t actually disagree with the theory that you should have a better chance of doing well in the cups if you’re doing well in the league. I just disagree about the benefits of third place finishes against a trophy.

[matty_f]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’d take your point when looking at their 2014 win but not this season. They’d been a fair bit poorer for a good couple of years and transitioning to a new manager as well.

I don’t actually disagree with the theory that you should have a better chance of doing well in the cups if you’re doing well in the league. I just disagree about the benefits of third place finishes against a trophy.

The benefits are in the sustainability - a cup win every now and again will give you a lift but -particularly with the league cup - if you win that and the end of your season is rubbish then the lift you get is negligible.

[bigwheel]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The benefits are in the sustainability - a cup win every now and again will give you a lift but -particularly with the league cup - if you win that and the end of your season is rubbish then the lift you get is negligible.

I think your touching on the reason there remains a frustrated feeling of dissatisfaction with many. People were hoping for a happy summer with a cup win to add to the 3rd in the league. The very poor performance in the final has led to no end of season lift, in fact as you touch on,the opposite - ending on a big downer ...

It’s only fitba though ...sun is shining ..loads of other things to enjoy now ...

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The benefits are in the sustainability - a cup win every now and again will give you a lift but -particularly with the league cup - if you win that and the end of your season is rubbish then the lift you get is negligible.

I come back to the Aberdeen example though. Not been out of the top four for about 8 seasons and where had it got them? I don’t even think they’ve got as far as the playoff round in Europe and one league cup right at the start of the cycle. Crap season ticket numbers and punters generally underwhelmed. It was the cup win that saw our season tickets spike and despite only being in the top four twice since then, we’ve largely managed to maintain. If we’d won a fortnight ago we’d have smashed our record IMO. More money going in to this season to help us improve further.

[Hibiza]

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster was 3 in a matter of months.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I come back to the Aberdeen example though. Not been out of the top four for about 8 seasons and where had it got them? I don’t even think they’ve got as far as the playoff round in Europe and one league cup right at the start of the cycle. Crap season ticket numbers and punters generally underwhelmed. It was the cup win that saw our season tickets spike and despite only being in the top four twice since then, we’ve largely managed to maintain. If we’d won a fortnight ago we’d have smashed our record IMO. More money going in to this season to help us improve further.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Teams will also always try to win every cup competition they enter. When Hibs go into a knock-out match against anyone then they'll be looking to win it. However, clubs don't decide whether they're going to win a cup or not. A tough draw, a missed penalty, a dodgy referee - all sorts of things can happen over the course of a cup run which results in being knocked out.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Teams will also always try to win every cup competition they enter. When Hibs go into a knock-out match against anyone then they'll be looking to win it. However, clubs don't decide whether they're going to win a cup or not. A tough draw, a missed penalty, a dodgy referee - all sorts of things can happen over the course of a cup run which results in being knocked out.

Equally, I’m not sure what point you’re making.

I think my posts are quite clear in that I’m saying I think there is more benefit in going and winning something as opposed to the benefits you get from consistent top four finishes.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster was 3 in a matter of months.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Equally, I’m not sure what point you’re making.

I think my posts are quite clear in that I’m saying I think there is more benefit in going and winning something as opposed to the benefits you get from consistent top four finishes.

There's also more benefit to winning the Euromillions jackpot than working for 45+ years for even a slightly above average salary. It's not something you can plan for though. Working does mean you have money to spend on lottery tickets though.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There's also more benefit to winning the Euromillions jackpot than working for 45+ years for even a slightly above average salary. It's not something you can plan for though.

I was having a reasonable debate with someone who thinks there is more benefit to doing well consistently in the league than there is to the perceived short term benefit of a cup win. I don’t see what’s difficult to comprehend about that and your comparison is, frankly, stupid.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I was having a reasonable debate with someone who thinks there is more benefit to doing well consistently in the league than there is to the perceived short term benefit of a cup win. I don’t see what’s difficult to comprehend about that and your comparison is, frankly, stupid.

I would remind you that it's an open forum, and I don't think my analogy was at all stupid.

But, I understand. Anything I post is going to annoy you and get your back up so I'll butt out.

Chill!

[Jones28]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster was 3 in a matter of months.

Might as well pack it in then eh?

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Equally, I’m not sure what point you’re making.

I think my posts are quite clear in that I’m saying I think there is more benefit in going and winning something as opposed to the benefits you get from consistent top four finishes.

Your point is clear enough.

The way that money is distributed and European places are allocated make a high placing in the league financially important, but in sport the truth is that 1st is the winner and 2nd is nowhere.

There’s no glory in being best of the rest. No trophy, no medals, no lifelong memories.

Given how far the ugly sisters are ahead of us and our record in Europe, domestic cups are where it’s at.

[Allez Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No it’s not. Some fans would rather have a cup win but a consistent league placing year after year is worth much more to our club.

Would rather have a trophy over 3rd place, every time.

That is why this thread is still going.

[Iggy Pope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Would rather have a trophy over 3rd place, every time.

That is why this thread is still going.

I’m certain everyone would, no matter what some might suggest on here. Not doing (a lot) better in the 3 clear cup opportunities this term was hugely disappointing. Some folks get disgusted mind you, I just think we underperformed massively and as a result, the club lost a lot of immediate revenue and potential revenue. Anyone thinking otherwise doesn’t understand life never mind football and I’m surprised some of the staff are getting off with it. With fans present, the ride would not be so easy I’m certain.

[mixumatosis]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Probably never unfortunately. Wasn't one disaster.

You'd have been closer if you'd left it there.

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Might as well pack it in then eh?

Don’t tempt me.

[Crunchie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And me, having poor league seasons where we lose lots of games would lose us season ticket sales, why would you buy a season ticket to watch pish every week, when you could just purchase a ticket every 6 weeks or so for a cup match.

Can you see that slippery slope?

I'm not a fair weather fan so I wouldn't fall into that category , and obviously I wouldn't want us to have a poor league season, far from it.

I don't know why I'm even on this thread because I'm over the final, and I'm in the keep Jack Ross camp, he has us banging on the door and that's fine by me.
I believe I was replying to Mr Brightside who's happy to finish higher up the league than actually win anything, and you seem to agree with him. I don't, give me a trophy and day of the week over a 3rd place finish.
I agree with what Matty is saying in as far as if you have a better team you have a better chance of winning something but that doesn't always follow. The much fabled Hibs team of the 70's as you well know won 1
major honour and ended up relegated.
Given the choice of course I'd like both a high finish and winning cups, but if I had to choose I'd even take relegation if it meant winning the Scottish cup again. After all we know we'll bounce back up and challenge again.

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How’s it indisputable? What would the club have benefitted more from? The season we had or the season St Johnstone had?

You’d be selling more season tickets, be entering a a better European competition if you’d had the latter. And rather than ‘having a better chance of winning cups’ you’d already have them in the bag.

Manager would've been hounded out had we had the league season they did.

[Greenbeard]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Manager would've been hounded out had we had the league season they did.

Presume you mean Saints league season alone ie without their Cup wins.
Had we had their exact season - under par league and cup double - no way would the manager even be on a shaky peg, never mind hounded out.
BTW I heard direct from a Saints backroom staffer that we selected and played exactly as they had expected and planned and that "Hibs made it easy for us". That does not reflect well on JR.

[The Modfather]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Manager would've been hounded out had we had the league season they did.

Hounded out for finishing 5th and doing the cup double? Sounds like one of our best ever seasons.

[Highwayman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Presume you mean Saints league season alone ie without their Cup wins.
Had we had their exact season - under par league and cup double - no way would the manager even be on a shaky peg, never mind hounded out.
BTW I heard direct from a Saints backroom staffer that we selected and played exactly as they had expected and planned and that "Hibs made it easy for us". That does not reflect well on JR.

Not surprised with that information from Saints back room staffer.

Its like Calum Davidson handed Hibs a plan and said this is how I want you to play,and Hibs followed it to the letter.

However it’s now past so let’s look forward to next season and hope JR and coaching staff can do their homework on opposing teams a bit better.