hibs.net Messageboard

 

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1

    Porteous v McGregor

    I can understand why he made it, but for Saturday it was the wrong call. You need leaders out there in such games. McGregor makes other players (like Hanlon, who isnít a leader) a much better player. He inspires others with his will to win. Had we played Allan/Malian weíd have been criticized for being too lightweight. As it was we were criticized for not being creative enough.

    The problem was the drive organization and focus of a committed leader. Bar McGregor and Gray we donít have anyone in that category.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I can understand why he made it, but for Saturday it was the wrong call. You need leaders out there in such games. McGregor makes other players (like Hanlon, who isnít a leader) a much better player. He inspires others with his will to win. Had we played Allan/Malian weíd have been criticized for being too lightweight. As it was we were criticized for not being creative enough.

    The problem was the drive organization and focus of a committed leader. Bar McGregor and Gray we donít have anyone in that category.
    Weíve built an incredibly bland team personality wise imo. A decent bit of talent in it but thereís very little in the way of characters, folk that will drag us to victory when the chips are down.

    I watched Time for Heroes on Friday night and itís one thing that really shone through. They players loved playing for Hibs and came across like they would do everything in their power to make us successful. You donít get that same feeling from this squad imo.

  4. #3
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Paisley
    Posts
    9,501

    Porteous v McGregor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I can understand why he made it, but for Saturday it was the wrong call. You need leaders out there in such games. McGregor makes other players (like Hanlon, who isnít a leader) a much better player. He inspires others with his will to win. Had we played Allan/Malian weíd have been criticized for being too lightweight. As it was we were criticized for not being creative enough.

    The problem was the drive organization and focus of a committed leader. Bar McGregor and Gray we donít have anyone in that category.
    I canít see why he made it Mcgregor had proven he was fit and in form and showed all his qualities in the previous two games
    Porto had been erratic ,and doesnít offer the drive and leadership Daz does
    I hope Ross when the dust settles admits it was a mistake
    However whether he could of dragged a better performance out of others who knows
    Would he of been marking Rooney If so he might not of scored
    But it wouldnít of sorted our lack of service to front players and doesnít explain why they all stayed on the pitch when it looked clear it wasnít working
    Ross should of been brave enough to make changes at half time and try something different




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #4
    Testimonial Due 500miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    4,027
    The Porteous/ McGregor thing didn't make a difference, we just lacked creativity. We're very good at punishing mistakes - hence why our stats on counterattacking goals are so good.

    Over the course of a season, it wins you a good number of games at this level, but against this St. Johnstone team who don't make those mistakes, we've struggled all season.

  6. #5
    Testimonial Due LaMotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    EH4
    Posts
    3,456
    Quote Originally Posted by 500miles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The Porteous/ McGregor thing didn't make a difference, we just lacked creativity. We're very good at punishing mistakes - hence why our stats on counterattacking goals are so good.

    Over the course of a season, it wins you a good number of games at this level, but against this St. Johnstone team who don't make those mistakes, we've struggled all season.
    I've read a few times that McGregor not being in the team wouldn't have made a difference because lack of creativity was our problem.

    This view ignores the fact that its so much harder to break down St Johnstone once they go a goal up. So if McGregor in the team helps us to get a clean sheet ( which he had done in the previous 2 games against Celtic and Aberdeen and been the best Hibs player on both occasions ), then there is less chance of Hibs being creatively stifled.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15,121
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMotta View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've read a few times that McGregor not being in the team wouldn't have made a difference because lack of creativity was our problem.

    This view ignores the fact that its so much harder to break down St Johnstone once they go a goal up. So if McGregor in the team helps us to get a clean sheet ( which he had done in the previous 2 games against Celtic and Aberdeen and been the best Hibs player on both occasions ), then there is less chance of Hibs being creatively stifled.
    Itís an impossible thing to say really. Would McGregor with all his experience have shouted for Gogic to stand up rather than commit himself? Would he have talked Doig through the game better and he wouldnít have found himself in the position of being caught under the ball and Rooney for the goal? Would he have scored the header Porteous won at a corner? Would he have gave away the pen? Would he have gave away another pen? Scored an OG?

    It may have changed the game playing him, it may not have. But I still canít believe that the decision was made to go with Porteous ahead of him.

  8. #7
    Testimonial Due 500miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    31
    Posts
    4,027
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMotta View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've read a few times that McGregor not being in the team wouldn't have made a difference because lack of creativity was our problem.

    This view ignores the fact that its so much harder to break down St Johnstone once they go a goal up. So if McGregor in the team helps us to get a clean sheet ( which he had done in the previous 2 games against Celtic and Aberdeen and been the best Hibs player on both occasions ), then there is less chance of Hibs being creatively stifled.
    That would apply if Porteous gave away the goal, but since it was McGinn who lost the ball, Gogic who got sold the dummy, and Doige that was caught under the ball, McGregor wouldn't have changed that.

    Furthermore, McGregor makes mistakes too. In fact, if it wasn't for a Stokes masterclass, he would have cost us the 2016 final by losing Kenny Miller.

  9. #8
    Testimonial Due Spudster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Posts
    1,599
    McGregor knows his limitations and is a safe bet. Porteous on current form is storming forward, misplacing passes, slow to get back and making horrific errors even when in position. Don't know what has happened to him since October.

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Age
    43
    Posts
    14,628
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We’ve built an incredibly bland team personality wise imo. A decent bit of talent in it but there’s very little in the way of characters, folk that will drag us to victory when the chips are down.

    I watched Time for Heroes on Friday night and it’s one thing that really shone through. They players loved playing for Hibs and came across like they would do everything in their power to make us successful. You don’t get that same feeling from this squad imo.
    I don't think that's strictly true, and in the context of this thread I don't think Porteous lacks character in any way. Quite the opposite.

    Playing Porteous ahead of McGregor was a crazy call but there was no way Ross was going to do anything different. I get that our issues lay further up the park but we didn't have enough folk to help inspire or dig us out when it wasn't going our way. Macey actually did it with the penalty save, and I thought Murphy looked much livelier when he came on - these are the sorts of things that can lift players out of a lull. In Murphy's case, after some initially positive activity he got dragged down to the mediocre level of the rest of them.

    Porteous has been struggling badly for form and McGregor hasn't. Seeing Porteous toil at the back was hardly inspirational. Gaffes, fouling, being caught out of position, all predictable. I don't think we'd have got that with McGregor.

    If you re-watch the final from 2016 I just don't think you can underestimate the importance of David Gray's contribution aside from the goal. He was banging into challenges, driving us up the pitch and inspiring the likes of Stokes and Fyvie (and all the rest of them) to do likewise. It doesn't need to be the captain, it just needs to be someone and on that day we had David Gray. On Saturday we had nobody, where a McGregor or Grey would have done the job.

    The fact that we were so passive when we were still in the gave is unforgivable. We didn't down tools at 4 goals down, we were never more than a goal down and especially in the last 20 minutes should have been breaking our necks to get back into it.

    My team would have included McGregor for Porteous and Hallberg for either Gogic or Newell, I couldn't really decide which, but I had no confidence that the team picked would get a result. It's easy to focus on what might have been and I fully accept that the team I'd have picked might also have lost.

    I also don't have any confidence that if we were forced to replay the game tomorrow that Jack Ross would see fit to do anything differently, which is possibly the most worrying thing.
    Last edited by Smartie; 25-05-2021 at 10:10 AM.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Jones28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Thankerton, SL
    Age
    28
    Posts
    11,527
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Weíve built an incredibly bland team personality wise imo. A decent bit of talent in it but thereís very little in the way of characters, folk that will drag us to victory when the chips are down.

    I watched Time for Heroes on Friday night and itís one thing that really shone through. They players loved playing for Hibs and came across like they would do everything in their power to make us successful. You donít get that same feeling from this squad imo.
    Just bear in mind that TFH was done in the aftermath of one of the biggest results in our history, it would be very difficult to come across as bland in that instance.
    A great day out ruined by the football

  12. #11
    Testimonial Due LaMotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    EH4
    Posts
    3,456
    Quote Originally Posted by 500miles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That would apply if Porteous gave away the goal, but since it was McGinn who lost the ball, Gogic who got sold the dummy, and Doige that was caught under the ball, McGregor wouldn't have changed that.

    Furthermore, McGregor makes mistakes too. In fact, if it wasn't for a Stokes masterclass, he would have cost us the 2016 final by losing Kenny Miller.
    Porteous was poor in the lead up to the goal....but the individual things that happened in that incident arent really relevant , because if McGregor had played that incident could not have identically occurred ( The butterfly effect).

    As Callum says we will never know for sure how it might have panned out. But you can't rule out that it might have worked out better or made a difference further up the field. And Ross wouldn't be getting critcised for leaving out our most in form and inspiring defender.

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member hhibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Falkirk/Fuerteventura
    Posts
    1,451
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think that's strictly true, and in the context of this thread I don't think Porteous lacks character in any way. Quite the opposite.

    Playing Porteous ahead of McGregor was a crazy call but there was no way Ross was going to do anything different. I get that our issues lay further up the park but we didn't have enough folk to help inspire or dig us out when it wasn't going our way. Macey actually did it with the penalty save, and I thought Murphy looked much livelier when he came on - these are the sorts of things that can lift players out of a lull. In Murphy's case, after some initially positive activity he got dragged down to the mediocre level of the rest of them.

    Porteous has been struggling badly for form and McGregor hasn't. Seeing Porteous toil at the back was hardly inspirational. Gaffes, fouling, being caught out of position, all predictable. I don't think we'd have got that with McGregor.

    If you re-watch the final from 2016 I just don't think you can underestimate the importance of David Gray's contribution aside from the goal. He was banging into challenges, driving us up the pitch and inspiring the likes of Stokes and Fyvie (and all the rest of them) to do likewise. It doesn't need to be the captain, it just needs to be someone and on that day we had David Gray. On Saturday we had nobody, where a McGregor or Grey would have done the job.

    Agree with all you say.

    In particular your last sentence,JR seems to have a severe blind spot,arrogance stubbornness,inflexibility,misplaced loyalty....who knows but it a problem and a weakness.

    The fact that we were so passive when we were still in the gave is unforgivable. We didn't down tools at 4 goals down, we were never more than a goal down and especially in the last 20 minutes should have been breaking our necks to get back into it.

    My team would have included McGregor for Porteous and Hallberg for either Gogic or Newell, I couldn't really decide which, but I had no confidence that the team picked would get a result. It's easy to focus on what might have been and I fully accept that the team I'd have picked might also have lost.

    I also don't have any confidence that if we were forced to replay the game tomorrow that Jack Ross would see fit to do anything differently, which is possibly the most worrying thing.
    Too true.

  14. #13
    We would have all seen the pre match features on
    Wotherspoon. Shaping up to cross and dragging it back in order to gain an advantage was heavily featured
    Itís as if Gogic never knew about it as he launched himself onto the terracing. Wotherspoon does it game in game out
    Surely they were aware of it. Donít commit and stand up.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Weíve built an incredibly bland team personality wise imo. A decent bit of talent in it but thereís very little in the way of characters, folk that will drag us to victory when the chips are down.

    I watched Time for Heroes on Friday night and itís one thing that really shone through. They players loved playing for Hibs and came across like they would do everything in their power to make us successful. You donít get that same feeling from this squad imo.
    Bang on mate, I remember the passion from Henderson in particular, youíd think that guy was the life long Hibby the way he celebrated us scoring. That just isnít there with this squad. Iím confident Jack will put Magennis as captain and you watch things happen.

  16. #15
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    209
    Donít think it would have changed the outcome, St Johnstone were prepared to work their socks off, wait for Hibs to make an error and punish us on the counterattack, Hibs have been one dimensional in their approach when things are going against them and if our fans think that we are predictable at times it should have been clear to Jack.
    Boyle should have been given a free role at some point in the proceedings, the midfield has never had the correct balance which has had a detrimental impact on certain pairings, over the season we have been productive on the right but making it up as we go along on the left with our only hope at times a decent performance from Doig which hasnít always transpired.
    We have now signed another right footed youngster from Inverness who Ross will probably play on the left, here we go again.

  17. #16
    McGregor 2 man of the match performances against Celtic and Aberdeen. A guy with experience and who is a leader.

    Porteous out of form - had 3 previous mistakes against Saints including passing them the ball for the last winning goal at ER. Known to be rash and his moaning can affect others.

    It was completely the wrong call.

    Yes we had a lot of the ball and maybe thatís not McGregors strength but as others have said we have been stronger at the back with him and we should have sacrificed flair for compactness.

    I would have also gone with Hallberg over Newell. Again no co-incidence Hallberg playing has made us tougher to break down.

    We need an upgrade in midfield and CB if we are to improve. Playing Newell and Porteous next season isnít going to improve us.

  18. #17
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCastle View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    McGregor 2 man of the match performances against Celtic and Aberdeen. A guy with experience and who is a leader.

    Porteous out of form - had 3 previous mistakes against Saints including passing them the ball for the last winning goal at ER. Known to be rash and his moaning can affect others.

    It was completely the wrong call.

    Yes we had a lot of the ball and maybe thatís not McGregors strength but as others have said we have been stronger at the back with him and we should have sacrificed flair for compactness.

    I would have also gone with Hallberg over Newell. Again no co-incidence Hallberg playing has made us tougher to break down.

    We need an upgrade in midfield and CB if we are to improve. Playing Newell and Porteous next season isnít going to improve us.
    If fit McGregor would be ideal but Porteous needs an experienced player to guide him through the games, heís too young to be the main centre back at the moment.

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15,121
    Quote Originally Posted by Key West View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If fit McGregor would be ideal but Porteous needs an experienced player to guide him through the games, heís too young to be the main centre back at the moment.
    Not sure I agree with that. At 22 with nearly 100 appearances for Hibs he should be doing just fine without having his hand held imo.

  20. #19
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not sure I agree with that. At 22 with nearly 100 appearances for Hibs he should be doing just fine without having his hand held imo.
    I think it is a specialised position which demands a bit of maturity.

  21. #20
    Testimonial Due MrRobot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,714
    Gamer IDs

    PSN ID: calhill19
    McGregor is a leader, i think that alone would have made the difference.

  22. #21
    Testimonial Due LaMotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    EH4
    Posts
    3,456
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCastle View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    McGregor 2 man of the match performances against Celtic and Aberdeen. A guy with experience and who is a leader.

    Porteous out of form - had 3 previous mistakes against Saints including passing them the ball for the last winning goal at ER. Known to be rash and his moaning can affect others.

    It was completely the wrong call.

    Yes we had a lot of the ball and maybe thatís not McGregors strength but as others have said we have been stronger at the back with him and we should have sacrificed flair for compactness.

    I would have also gone with Hallberg over Newell. Again no co-incidence Hallberg playing has made us tougher to break down.

    We need an upgrade in midfield and CB if we are to improve. Playing Newell and Porteous next season isnít going to improve us.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2020 All Rights Reserved
- Mobile Leaderboard (320x50) - Leaderboard (728x90)