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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Alan Power, Killie

    No, we're not signing him. The shocking statistic is he ended up our joint highest scoring midfield player in the league this season. Newell, Gogic, Murphy, Irvine, Hallberg, Wright, Cadden, Mallan & Allan started 128 league games, 177 appearances in total & scored 5 goals. Statistically Stephen McGinn was our best scoring midfielder with 1 goal in 5 sub appearances!
    Sorry to start yet another depressing thread but I'm fed up with seeing the usual suspects, Hanlon & Porteous being pilloried on social media. The fact is our defence had our best top league record for 20 years, 3 of the 4 were called up by Scotland & the 4th won young national POTY. Our midfield don't score, as above & unfortunately they rarely create chances either. This results in the defence continually going long (& we scored against Sheep & Dundee Utd recently in that manner).
    I know the above is simplistic & it can be argued that the midfield contribute to the defensive record & that they also allow us to play a front 3. If we want more creativity however, a la Scott Allan, then we probably need to make sacrifices elsewhere. Either play a back 3 or a front 2 or 1. That for me is the conundrum that JR needs to resolve for next season, unfortunately he failed on that count yesterday.


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Awful stats. Really need more goals from the midfield. Both Irvine and Newell seriously lack the composure/quality required when in front of goal.

  4. #3
    Itís been a clear weakness all season. If Doidge, Boyle or Nisbet donít score, weíre toiling.

    The midfield performance yesterday didnít surprise me in the slightest.

  5. #4
    Our midfield do not shoot anywhere near enough, which 100% goes back to the manager.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brog View Post
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    No, we're not signing him. The shocking statistic is he ended up our joint highest scoring midfield player in the league this season. Newell, Gogic, Murphy, Irvine, Hallberg, Wright, Cadden, Mallan & Allan started 128 league games, 177 appearances in total & scored 5 goals. Statistically Stephen McGinn was our best scoring midfielder with 1 goal in 5 sub appearances!
    Sorry to start yet another depressing thread but I'm fed up with seeing the usual suspects, Hanlon & Porteous being pilloried on social media. The fact is our defence had our best top league record for 20 years, 3 of the 4 were called up by Scotland & the 4th won young national POTY. Our midfield don't score, as above & unfortunately they rarely create chances either. This results in the defence continually going long (& we scored against Sheep & Dundee Utd recently in that manner).
    I know the above is simplistic & it can be argued that the midfield contribute to the defensive record & that they also allow us to play a front 3. If we want more creativity however, a la Scott Allan, then we probably need to make sacrifices elsewhere. Either play a back 3 or a front 2 or 1. That for me is the conundrum that JR needs to resolve for next season, unfortunately he failed on that count yesterday.
    I missed out Magennis, can't imagine why! Full stats are; 132 starts, 187 appearances, 6 goals. Unbelievable really as with the obvious exception of Gogic (possibly Hallberg) the rest are (supposedly) more forward playing midfielders.

  7. #6
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    Boyle has to be included if the likes of Cadden, Wright and Murphy are being used.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    Boyle has to be included if the likes of Cadden, Wright and Murphy are being used.
    Fair enough, if you deduct the goals he scored playing as a striker.

  9. #8
    Newell and Irvine have been vastly over rated by many on here. Nowhere near consistent enough.

  10. #9
    I had hoped he might have started Stevenson at left back and Doig in place of Irvine which would have put a bit more pace down the left further up the park. St Johnstone had been poor in that area of their defence in the semi. It couldn't have been any worse than the performance yesterday. The lack of pace and drive in the midfield is obvious.There were plenty of posters on here wanting Irvine signed but I've still to see what the fuss was about. Some say he is played out of position but when he moves central he has very little impact either.

  11. #10
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    What this highlights for me is that it really is our midfield that needs sorted for next season, we have not had drive and the killer pass or goals from midfield since John McGinn and the Scott Allan illness, with a player of this ilk in the team yesterday, the tactics could have have been changed and we could have found a way through their defence IMO

  12. #11
    Newell's lack of urgency is really annoying at times, and also the fact he doesn't score many goals at all. Irvine plays further forward a lot of the time and at least tries to get into good positions, but his first touch is awful. Have yet to see anything that Maginnis adds to the team, but maybe it's early days as I think Ross has signed him on a 5 year contract..

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Alfred E Newman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 147lothian View Post
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    What this highlights for me is that it really is our midfield that needs sorted for next season, we have not had drive and the killer pass or goals from midfield since John McGinn and the Scott Allan illness, with a player of this ilk in the team yesterday, the tactics could have have been changed and we could have found a way through their defence IMO
    Our midfield has been the problem since McGinn & Bartley left. It is so one paced and uncompetitive and dispite bringing in several players, Ross has not managed to improve it.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Alfred E Newman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    Newell's lack of urgency is really annoying at times, and also the fact he doesn't score many goals at all. Irvine plays further forward a lot of the time and at least tries to get into good positions, but his first touch is awful. Have yet to see anything that Maginnis adds to the team, but maybe it's early days as I think Ross has signed him on a 5 year contract..
    Irvines last touch is even worse!

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred E Newman View Post
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    Our midfield has been the problem since McGinn & Bartley left. It is so one paced and uncompetitive and dispite bringing in several players, Ross has not managed to improve it.
    McGinn, McGeouch and Fyive. Marv was a sub for most of his time here.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member The Modfather's Avatar
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    Iíve long thought the midfield has been the route of or problems. Players, Newell in particular, make us less than the sum of our parts IMO. Our best midfield performance was the home game against Aberdeen when we went 352 and had Gogic, Irvine & Murphy. Why have we not see that again.

    Ross seems to have his favourites and picks them instead of an overall plan as to how the midfield will fit together and compliment each other. That and his bizarre insistence that a lopsided 442 and hang a midfielder, as well as Doig, out to dry by chucking them out somewhere vaguely on the left.

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    Iíve long thought the midfield has been the route of or problems. Players, Newell in particular, make us less than the sum of our parts IMO. Our best midfield performance was the home game against Aberdeen when we went 352 and had Gogic, Irvine & Murphy. Why have we not see that again.

    Ross seems to have his favourites and picks them instead of an overall plan as to how the midfield will fit together and compliment each other. That and his bizarre insistence that a lopsided 442 and hang a midfielder, as well as Doig, out to dry by chucking them out somewhere vaguely on the left.
    The midfield hasnít been at its best since Newell returned, definitely agree with that. Heís so inconsistent, itís infuriating to watch.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred E Newman View Post
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    Our midfield has been the problem since McGinn & Bartley left. It is so one paced and uncompetitive and dispite bringing in several players, Ross has not managed to improve it.
    This is the area of the park that needs to be addressed, letting Marvin go without having a holding midfielder to take his place was the definition of madness for me, I also think Bartley should have got more game time than he did.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 147lothian View Post
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    This is the area of the park that needs to be addressed, letting Marvin go without having a holding midfielder to take his place was the definition of madness for me, I also think Bartley should have got more game time than he did.
    Marvin didn't have a place to replace, though. He wasn't playing. Its like saying why didn't we replace Whittaker, or Nelom.

  20. #19
    First Team Breakthrough churchie16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Our midfield do not shoot anywhere near enough, which 100% goes back to the manager.
    We do have midfielders that score and create we just punted them out on loan and before anyone starts save the Allan pushed it through to get minutes cause he easily could have got them at us by now just think Ross doesnít like midfielders like that and he wants 6 foot huddies instead that run about and do absolutely 0 in a game

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by churchie16 View Post
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    We do have midfielders that score and create we just punted them out on loan and before anyone starts save the Allan pushed it through to get minutes cause he easily could have got them at us by now just think Ross doesnít like midfielders like that and he wants 6 foot huddies instead that run about and do absolutely 0 in a game
    Completely ignoring the fact that Allan played regularly under Ross when he was fully fit then aye?

  22. #21
    First Team Breakthrough churchie16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Completely ignoring the fact that Allan played regularly under Ross when he was fully fit then aye?
    So whyís he no getting the game time when he got the all clear and training with us, cause of folk like gogic and Irvine and that magennis hahaha give over made it clear the last 2 days Jack Ross canít do no wrong in your eyes , mallan, Scott Allan and gullan out on loan are a number of absolutely brutal decisions made by the guy

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by brog View Post
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    No, we're not signing him. The shocking statistic is he ended up our joint highest scoring midfield player in the league this season. Newell, Gogic, Murphy, Irvine, Hallberg, Wright, Cadden, Mallan & Allan started 128 league games, 177 appearances in total & scored 5 goals. Statistically Stephen McGinn was our best scoring midfielder with 1 goal in 5 sub appearances!
    Sorry to start yet another depressing thread but I'm fed up with seeing the usual suspects, Hanlon & Porteous being pilloried on social media. The fact is our defence had our best top league record for 20 years, 3 of the 4 were called up by Scotland & the 4th won young national POTY. Our midfield don't score, as above & unfortunately they rarely create chances either. This results in the defence continually going long (& we scored against Sheep & Dundee Utd recently in that manner).
    I know the above is simplistic & it can be argued that the midfield contribute to the defensive record & that they also allow us to play a front 3. If we want more creativity however, a la Scott Allan, then we probably need to make sacrifices elsewhere. Either play a back 3 or a front 2 or 1. That for me is the conundrum that JR needs to resolve for next season, unfortunately he failed on that count yesterday.
    I think another thing is Newell and Hallberg falling back level with central defenders to pick up the ball to pass. This means we have one fewer player to pass forward to. The midfield players donít work as a unit , compare that with StJ who have a team of decent hardworking players with defence and midfield playing as units. Hibs have been firing long balls all season and 90% of the time they are won by the opposing defenders. We really need midfielders who can hold the ball and drive forward and give decent service to the forwards and score themselves.

  24. #23
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    Iíve long thought the midfield has been the route of or problems. Players, Newell in particular, make us less than the sum of our parts IMO. Our best midfield performance was the home game against Aberdeen when we went 352 and had Gogic, Irvine & Murphy. Why have we not see that again.

    Ross seems to have his favourites and picks them instead of an overall plan as to how the midfield will fit together and compliment each other. That and his bizarre insistence that a lopsided 442 and hang a midfielder, as well as Doig, out to dry by chucking them out somewhere vaguely on the left.
    Whilst you could never make an argument that Hallberg is our best midfielder, whenever he plays we seem to be closer to a unit that is ďgreater than the sum of its partsĒ than any other combination of players without him.

    Theyíre all good players imo but itís impossible to deny that the midfield is still a problem. Any of the players might be part of a solution but tbh any of them leaving might also be part of the solution.

  25. #24
    I feel Newell and Irvine are fine together as they both have legs and energy and not scared of a tackle however we need an attacking midfielder with them. If SA can get back fit and firing then great but if not we need someone who can be creative and chip in with a few goals. We were crying out for creativity yesterday as we were far too predictable of going long or just going wide and hitting it into the box

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Awful stats. Really need more goals from the midfield. Both Irvine and Newell seriously lack the composure/quality required when in front of goal.
    Serious question, what role is Irvine supposed to fill? He doesn't seem to score goals, isn't a playmaker, isn't particularly fast, doesn't seem like a stopper and doesn't appear to be a winger. I kind of like him but I wouldn't know what role to play him in.

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brog View Post
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    No, we're not signing him. The shocking statistic is he ended up our joint highest scoring midfield player in the league this season. Newell, Gogic, Murphy, Irvine, Hallberg, Wright, Cadden, Mallan & Allan started 128 league games, 177 appearances in total & scored 5 goals. Statistically Stephen McGinn was our best scoring midfielder with 1 goal in 5 sub appearances!
    Sorry to start yet another depressing thread but I'm fed up with seeing the usual suspects, Hanlon & Porteous being pilloried on social media. The fact is our defence had our best top league record for 20 years, 3 of the 4 were called up by Scotland & the 4th won young national POTY. Our midfield don't score, as above & unfortunately they rarely create chances either. This results in the defence continually going long (& we scored against Sheep & Dundee Utd recently in that manner).
    I know the above is simplistic & it can be argued that the midfield contribute to the defensive record & that they also allow us to play a front 3. If we want more creativity however, a la Scott Allan, then we probably need to make sacrifices elsewhere. Either play a back 3 or a front 2 or 1. That for me is the conundrum that JR needs to resolve for next season, unfortunately he failed on that count yesterday.
    Newell, Gogic and Irvine seem to be JRís must play trio if fit. I would get rid of the three of them.
    Newell constantly flatters to deceive pirouetting and mostly passing backwards or sideways. Gogic is good at breaking up play from the opposition but generally gives it back to them because of his lack of ball control and pass accuracy. Irvine is very one paced and not nearly as good as some make him out to be. If you combine these shortcomings with their inability to contribute to goal scoring as outlined above you have to wonder why they are in the team. Much more dynamism is required in that area of the pitch and players like Campbell (Motherwell) and McCann (St Johnstone) are required if we want to seriously compete for 3rd place in the league and to reach cup finals next season again in what will be a much more difficult top 12 next year.

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    Newell's lack of urgency is really annoying at times, and also the fact he doesn't score many goals at all. Irvine plays further forward a lot of the time and at least tries to get into good positions, but his first touch is awful. Have yet to see anything that Maginnis adds to the team, but maybe it's early days as I think Ross has signed him on a 5 year contract..
    Never have got the hype over Newell, inconsistent, often goes missing and as for the sideways passes, he makes Barry the Crab look like an amateur. We badly need Magennis to get himself fit over the summer as weíve seen nothing as to what he can actually contribute and if he is the driving, progressive midfielder we hope he is, then great, but if not, itís back to square one because if Saturday proved anything, itís that Irvine isnít the answer either

  29. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by delbert View Post
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    Never have got the hype over Newell, inconsistent, often goes missing and as for the sideways passes, he makes Barry the Crab look like an amateur. We badly need Magennis to get himself fit over the summer as weíve seen nothing as to what he can actually contribute and if he is the driving, progressive midfielder we hope he is, then great, but if not, itís back to square one because if Saturday proved anything, itís that Irvine isnít the answer either
    Iím the same - there was a POTY thread on here a few weeks ago and I commented saying I was amazed at how many shortlists Newell made.

    When heís good heís good, but nowhere near often enough.

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs View Post
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    Iím the same - there was a POTY thread on here a few weeks ago and I commented saying I was amazed at how many shortlists Newell made.

    When heís good heís good, but nowhere near often enough.
    I think, in the latter half of the season anyway, we played our best football when Newell wasnít there

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