Protest at Old Trafford

[CMurdoch]

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You didn't answer my question. Do you thinks Hibs are dead because a very rich American has bought us? Aren't we just Man United on a smaller scale?

Ron Gordon is one guy. There are no raft of investors, hedge funds and other leeches like the English teams have as owners where they always need to maximise profit for the investors.
As I said I do have concerns about Ron Gordon the biggest of which is who he sells the club to next. That is the big one.
As I also said there are no vast riches to be made in Scottish football so that keeps the big investor sharks away.

P.S. Although not answering your question directly I did say rather a lot about Ron and Hibs etc in my last mega post

[MWHIBBIES]

Didn't Fergie force the previous owners out over a horses stud rights. Quite funny how it's turned out.

[MKHIBEE]

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So a club is dead when a foreign owner borrows money to buy it? If an American capitalist, with no affinity for his purchase, buys a club without debt, everything is okay, yes? We are still alive and kicking. What if Ron Gordon had borrowed money to buy Hibs, would we not be Hibs now? I think it's entirely insulting to pronounce the death of another club, particularly when that club has been sustained by real fans similar to our own: working class people (many also Irish immigrants on Salford docks) whose memory people like the Glazers desecrate for their own enrichment.

You're missing the point entirely. It's the same game, only on a smaller scale. If Gordon had concluded buying Hibs via debt would enrich him, he would have done it.

The guy in my avatar, what would he say about Hibs and about football in 2021?

The only point I was making that we were not like Manchester United in the way we were bought and how the buyout was financed. I cannot see where I have insulted another club or mentioned the death of a club
As for your Ron Gordon quote he didn’t and you can’t possibly know what he would have done. Perhaps you replied to the wrong post?

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Ron Gordon is one guy. There are no raft of investors, hedge funds and other leeches like the English teams have as owners where they need to always need to maximise profit for the investors.
As I said I do have concerns about Ron Gordon the biggest of which is who he sells the club to next.

So are we dead as a result of a super rich American capitalist with no connection to the club buying it? Funding of the takeover seems like semantics, or is an American who buys a football club without loans different?

[Northernhibee]

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Wasn't Scottish football a pioneer of money buying success via the Souness revolution at Rangers in 1986? They were buying up the best in the English game at that time. Did you find Scottish football unwatchable then, and did you give up on Hibs as a result? There is so much sanctimony. If Hibs were taken over by a Bezos or Mansoor or some sort, I guarantee few would complain. It's self interest. Huge spending is unedifying when it's somebody else.

I wasn't old enough to remember Scottish football back then.

I also would complain if our club fell into the hands of an unsavoury character. It's maybe a generational thing to want our club run by a character with ethical intentions.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Didn't Fergie force the previous owners out over a horses stud rights. Quite funny how it's turned out.

magnier and mcmanus. They were significant shareholders who sold to Glazer a year or two after falling out with Ferguson

[Killiehibbie]

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Didn't Fergie force the previous owners out over a horses stud rights. Quite funny how it's turned out.

They 'gifted' him a horse but only for its racing career.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The only point I was making that we were not like Manchester United in the way we were bought and how the buyout was financed. I cannot see where I have insulted another club or mentioned the death of a club
As for your Ron Gordon quote he didn’t and you can’t possibly know what he would have done. Perhaps you replied to the wrong post?

No, I was responding to your post. What difference does it make how these super rich foreign owners finance a takeover? They are of the same ilk but on different scales. Are we different because an American didn't buy Hibs in the same way as the Americans at Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal? I don't see how we are so different. We are all controlled by big big money and global finance and the fans had zero say in any of those takeovers. We are just customers to all of them, devoid of any influence.

[Keith_M]

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So are we dead as a result of a super rich American capitalist with no connection to the club buying it? Funding of the takeover seems like semantics, or is an American who buys a football club without loans different?

That's nonsense.

I don't think Man U are 'dead', but there's simply no comparison between the two, other than Gordon's nationality.

The difference in the manner of each purchase is much more than just semantics.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I wasn't old enough to remember Scottish football back then.

I also would complain if our club fell into the hands of an unsavoury character. It's maybe a generational thing to want our club run by a character with ethical intentions.

But how would you define an 'unsavoury character'? Unless we have fan ownership there is no guarantee that any owner is in it for altruistic reasons. How many Hibs fans would have protested about the human rights record in the UAE (where being gay is punishable by death) had Mansoor bought Hibs instead of Man City, for example?

[MKHIBEE]

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No, I was responding to your post. What difference does it make how these super rich foreign owners finance a takeover? They are of the same ilk but on different scales. Are we different because an American didn't buy Hibs in the same way as the Americans at Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal? I don't see how we are so different. We are all controlled by big big money and global finance and the fans had zero say in any of those takeovers. We are just customers to all of them, devoid of any influence.

Ron Gordon cleared our debt when he bought the club, the Glazers put ManUtd in debt for the first in many years simply by the way they financed the buyout, millions and millions of £s of supporters money being used to finance the debt rather than buying the players they needed to stay competitive at the top level. There is a difference, even in the world of big big money. Ron Gordon’s relationship with the club and its fans is something Man Utd fans can only dream about . Big money, different attitudes.

[Irish_Steve]

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That's nonsense.

I don't think Man U are 'dead', but there's simply no comparison between the two, other than Gordon's nationality.

The difference in the manner of each purchase is much more than just semantics.

Except Ron isn`t a Yank

[Hibernia&Alba]

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That's nonsense.

I don't think Man U are 'dead', but there's simply no comparison between the two, other than Gordon's nationality.

The difference in the manner of each purchase is much more than just semantics.

No it isn't nonsense. How do we define which clubs are dead and which live on? Does Ron Gordon have any more affinity to Hibs than the Glazers have to Man United or the Kroenkes have to Arsenal?

What is the nub of the issue here? They have American owners? So do we. They have owners with no connection to football? So do we. Their owners regard football as investment? So do ours. only the scale is different. This is capitalism in all its ruthless glory.

That's the modern game. Our club is no better nor worse than most others that are remotely comparable. If Ron Gordon was interested solely by the Corinthian spirit, he could have bought Albion Rovers. This is business; he will not chuck millions at it, in order to see Hibs win the league. He wants a return on his investment, that's fine, but let's not try to claim some moral high ground. He is no better than the other mega rich owners who bought clubs. It isn't altruism, there is something he wants in return. It mightn't be as naked, but he didn't buy Hibs out of love. Let's get real here.

[The Modfather]

Some of the videos from the protest are clearly nothing to do with the super league or protesting against the owners. It’s a sizeable number of neds taking advantage of an opportunity to act like cretins.

[tamig]

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I think the difference between the others, and hibs is petrie didn't own hibs. 😉

We still managed to get a big trailer into the car park though with Kano on the decks. Thats the way to protest. 😀

[heretoday]

I don't buy this stuff. Man Utd have won a lot of trophies under the Glazers when Fergie was in charge especially. Now their fans are unhappy because they're not winning cups and City and Liverpool are.

Football is about big teams at the top and other teams aspiring to be one of the top teams. It was ever thus. Rich men acquire big teams. Get over it.

[Northernhibee]

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But how would you define an 'unsavoury character'? Unless we have fan ownership there is no guarantee that any owner is in it for altruistic reasons. How many Hibs fans would have protested about the human rights record in the UAE (where being gay is punishable by death) had Mansoor bought Hibs instead of Man City, for example?

If it's someone with horrendous human rights records that had bought over Hibs, then you wouldn't see me back in Easter Road until all . Given the traditions and heritage of our club, I know that I would not be alone. I'd rather stand by my LGBTQ+ friends than go to the football and support something at odds with my personal values.

There's nothing wrong with making a profit - it's how any economy operates to engineer something, create something or offer a service that adds value to the raw parts it came from - but if it comes at the expense of human rights, employee rights or doesn't offer someone a living wage then that's completely destructive to society.

As for 'unsavoury character', that is again personal values. Have now given up all Amazon accounts and subscriptions (the Audible was a tough one to give up), avoid tax dodging companies as much as possible, avoid large Tory donors as much as possible and go from there. It's a really simple choice - if you don't want these characters succeeding, don't fund them.

The generation that has followed mine have a lot of this at the forefront of their minds and they get called silly little schoolyard names like "woke", "PC", "lefty" and the like and it's pathetic. They're a generation that will do much more than my generation or any that have come before mine since WW2 IMO and I have faith that they also wouldn't stand for an excellent club that does wonders for the community falling out of that ethos.

[HH81]

https://youtu.be/0pFuCV-CJlI

Fans singing about people dying
Smashing doors for access to the stadium

Manchester United fans.

[Rumble de Thump]

Ron is Peruvian.

[tamig]

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Okay, but he's a very rich American capitalist with no previous links to Hibs. Does that mean we are dead? What say did we Hibs fans have in his buying the club? ZERO, just like the Man united fans with the Glazers. There's no moral high ground here; this is global capitalism.

And we all know why the Hibs fans had zero input into the sale of the club to whoever STF decided was the chosen one. Could have been different.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Ron Gordon cleared our debt when he bought the club, the Glazers put ManUtd in debt for the first in many years simply by the way they financed the buyout, millions and millions of £s of supporters money being used to finance the debt rather than buying the players they needed to stay competitive at the top level. There is a difference, even in the world of big big money. Ron Gordon’s relationship with the club and its fans is something Man Utd fans can only dream about . Big money, different attitudes.

The scale etc isn't the point. These people don't buy football clubs for the love it. This is business to these people. Yes, it's on a different scale, but it's business. We are not talking altruism here; there are bigger motives in play. Gordon is no better than the rest, and he didn't become so rich by being a philanthropist in sport. Let's just stop with the stone throwing; all these people are part of the same club of global capital. Man United aren't so far from our own situation today, it's just the scale. Where do we draw the line between them and us? When should we also be considered dead? What say do we have in who controls Hibs? None, absolutely none, so, what if the next owners are exactly like the Glazers etc. We will have no say. Do we then roll over and do nothing? it's only when fans feel the club is being harmed that they become animated.

[007]

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Not financially comparable, but the principle of rich American capitalists buying both clubs stands. He said United died a long time ago as a result, so are we also dead because we are no longer a club of dirt poor Irish immigrants? What's the cut off point whereby a club can be pronounced dead?

[gorgie_harp]

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[Hibernia&Alba]

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Aye

[Iain G]

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Ron is Peruvian.

You mean he isn't even from this planet? 😁

[Key West]

Man United fans with green and yellow scarfs breaking into the ground and changing rooms lighting flares, attacking the police and security staff over owners who pay their players mega bucks to win trophies, oh the irony.

[Andy74]

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No, I was responding to your post. What difference does it make how these super rich foreign owners finance a takeover? They are of the same ilk but on different scales. Are we different because an American didn't buy Hibs in the same way as the Americans at Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal? I don't see how we are so different. We are all controlled by big big money and global finance and the fans had zero say in any of those takeovers. We are just customers to all of them, devoid of any influence.

Tom Farmer gave us all plenty time to buy shares.

The reality is that if we didn’t have rich people, regardless of where they come from, then Hibs probably wouldn’t be here.

Of course you don’t have a say in a takeover of something that isn’t yours.

[hibsbollah]

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The reality is that if we didn’t have rich people, regardless of where they come from, then Hibs probably wouldn’t be here.

This is an absolute belter you are solid gold.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Man United fans with green and yellow scarfs breaking into the ground and changing rooms lighting flares, attacking the police and security staff over owners who pay their players mega bucks to win trophies, oh the irony.

Seriously, what irony? Do fans decide player salaries? The fans have been consistently anti-Glazer since 2005 and the Super League disgrace brought it all up again. What should they do? Any violence which hurts people is disgusting, but direct action is the last option. There comes a point whereby feelings reach a tipping point. Hurt nobody but smash the system

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Tom Farmer gave us all plenty time to buy shares.

The reality is that if we didn’t have rich people, regardless of where they come from, then Hibs probably wouldn’t be here.

Of course you don’t have a say in a takeover of something that isn’t yours.

Oh Jesus Christ. Why bother?