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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not In The Know View Post
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    I think that’s much to do with tactics.
    I don't agree with that. Irvine and Newell have had a load of chances over the last few months. Even Gogic has had quite a few shots. Cadden and Murphy when they have played have also missed a good few chances too. One of the reasons we don't tuck teams away more comfortably is our execution in the final third. Nisbet is very good but Boyle and Doidge are very wasteful in front of goal although Boyle is much improved.


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  3. #32
    The issue is when we play one like Allan or Mallan you also get people moaning we’re too soft in the middle of the park etc.

    Irvine, Newell and Gogic whilst not scoring much make us very competitive in the middle and have set up a good couple of chances/assists between them. They’re all very good physically and offer height.

    With those 3 it allows guys like Doidge, Nisbet and Boyle to score.

    Goal scoring midfielders that do everything are very rare now.

    Jamie McGrath - 11 goals from midfield this season in all competitions for St Mirren, 8 of which are penalties. I don’t know if he’s actually any good either, he’s never particularly stood out for me.

    Allan Campbell - 4 goals this season from open play and is much more of a box to box player than McGrath. More from open play but wouldn’t be classed as a goal scoring midfielder.

    Ross Callachan - 8 goals from midfield this season, 4 of which have been pens. Nowhere near good enough for us.

    Scott Pitman - 6 goals, all from open play.

    I have no doubt that if Mallan or Allan played week in week out for us behind the striker they’d both get double figures. The issue is we might lose more goals because we’re weaker in the middle of the park.

    It’s a fine margain.

    Magennis doesn’t have a great record of scoring but I think he’s the type to score the odd screamer rather than consistently scoring. I think it fit and played further forward for us though he could hit 6 or so goals a season. For him the major this is being fit though.

    Whilst we’re at it I think we need to improve scoring from set pieces. I feel like as a team we never score a header from corners or free kicks.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by HFCEighteen75 View Post
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    It's funny how few goals a player tends to score when they're sat in the stands.
    He hadn't scored a free kick for over 2 years before leaving and very few against spl sides from open play either. He played plenty, plenty games. Have a look at the stats. Couldn't get in the side because the idea of scoring goals isn't better than the reality of actually being a good player like Newall and Irvine are.

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Unseen work View Post
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    The issue is when we play one like Allan or Mallan you also get people moaning we’re too soft in the middle of the park etc.

    Irvine, Newell and Gogic whilst not scoring much make us very competitive in the middle and have set up a good couple of chances/assists between them. They’re all very good physically and offer height.

    With those 3 it allows guys like Doidge, Nisbet and Boyle to score.

    Goal scoring midfielders that do everything are very rare now.

    Jamie McGrath - 11 goals from midfield this season in all competitions for St Mirren, 8 of which are penalties. I don’t know if he’s actually any good either, he’s never particularly stood out for me.

    Allan Campbell - 4 goals this season from open play and is much more of a box to box player than McGrath. More from open play but wouldn’t be classed as a goal scoring midfielder.

    Ross Callachan - 8 goals from midfield this season, 4 of which have been pens. Nowhere near good enough for us.

    Scott Pitman - 6 goals, all from open play.

    I have no doubt that if Mallan or Allan played week in week out for us behind the striker they’d both get double figures. The issue is we might lose more goals because we’re weaker in the middle of the park.

    It’s a fine margain.

    Magennis doesn’t have a great record of scoring but I think he’s the type to score the odd screamer rather than consistently scoring. I think it fit and played further forward for us though he could hit 6 or so goals a season. For him the major this is being fit though.

    Whilst we’re at it I think we need to improve scoring from set pieces. I feel like as a team we never score a header from corners or free kicks.
    Great post. That’s the crux of it: don’t score enough goals v too soft

  6. #35
    Testimonial Due The_Exile's Avatar
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    We had one but now he’s scoring goals from midfield in Turkey.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Exile View Post
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    We had one but now he’s scoring goals from midfield in Turkey.
    All 2 of them! Lol... we’re not missing anything.

  8. #37
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Things can go in cycles, Irvine scored a goal in every 4 games as a midfielder in the English championship with Burton, so it’s not like he can’t do it. He joined us in January, what is it now, early April? Too early to judge whether he can score regularly up here.

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Matter of time before Irvine scores from midfield and Newell could definitely have scored more as has had decent shooting opportunities in some games. Our final third play between Boyle and the two main forwards in particular could be better imo, timing of passes, coordinated runs, finishing etc. Showed yesterday in the last 15 mins of the first half when although being in good positions didn't really have a decent shot on target. We do create good opportunities but tend not to be as clinical as we might be imo. Clearly showed in the semi final defeat to Hearts when we had so many breaks and opportunities but were very wasteful when it came to creating goalscoring opportunities or decent efforts on goal.

  10. #39
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    Is there even a number of goals that qualifies a player as a 'goal scoring midfielder' 7, 10, 12? When we had the terrific midfield of Allan, McGinn and McGeouch I don't recall them chipping in with lots of goals.

  11. #40
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy75 View Post
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    Is there even a number of goals that qualifies a player as a 'goal scoring midfielder' 7, 10, 12? When we had the terrific midfield of Allan, McGinn and McGeouch I don't recall them chipping in with lots of goals.
    It depends on the team and the style of play doesn’t it? It would be nice to have a 10+goals a season guy playing in the #8 role but when you have three further forward like we have with decent scoring rates this season it’s not as big a problem...
    Last edited by hibsbollah; 12-04-2021 at 02:31 PM.

  12. #41
    We don't need a 'goal scoring midfielder', Mallan is case and point you bring one in and the side become poorer overall.

    We have scored the 3rd most goals in the league this year, who cares where they've come from whatever we're doing is working. If we brought a Mallan back into the side I guarantee we would get fewer goals and conceed more over a season

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibee Mac View Post
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    We don't need a 'goal scoring midfielder', Mallan is case and point you bring one in and the side become poorer overall.

    We have scored the 3rd most goals in the league this year, who cares where they've come from whatever we're doing is working. If we brought a Mallan back into the side I guarantee we would get fewer goals and conceed more over a season
    We’re overly reliant on a few players.

    I don’t think we need someone who is going to be scoring 12-15 but we could be doing with other players chipping in a bit more regularly. Was reading an interview with Newell yesterday and he was saying that even if he could contribute 5 or 6 a season it could make a big difference. I think that’s the type of contribution we need from the likes of him.

    We have scored the third most in the league but we’ve also failed to score in a third of our games as well. I don’t think we score enough for the number of chances we create (that’s one thing that’s definitely not an issue).
    Last edited by B.H.F.C; 12-04-2021 at 02:28 PM.

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    We’re overly reliant on a few players.

    I don’t think we need someone who is going to be scoring 12-15 but we could be doing with other players chipping in a bit more regularly. Was reading an interview with Newell yesterday and he was saying that even if he could contribute 5 or 6 a season it could make a big difference. I think that’s the type of contribution we need from the likes of him.

    We have scored the third most in the league but we’ve also failed to score in a third of our games as well. I don’t think we score enough for the number of chances we create (that’s one thing that’s definitely not an issue).
    Yeh I can see your point that you don't want to be too heavily reliant on certain players, I get that and agree that would be a key thing to consider if, say for instance, Nisbet leaves in the summer.

    That being said you don't find people saying we're overly reliant on our defenders keeping clean sheets, we praise the system when that's the case.

    I think the same should be said about our forwards this season, the system is clearly working as the goals have been shared pretty well between Boyle, Nisbet and Doidge. I think the "problem" with midfield lack of goals comes from their poor finishing, not from the personnel themselves, just like the point you made above we are creating enough chances for them, the likes of Newell, Irvine and even Cadden just need to be more clinical.

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    I dont think there's a natural finisher in our midfield, Mallan in his 1st season scored from free kicks and shots, Allan was always vert capable of chipping in with a few but I don't see anyone else helping out enough.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    I dont think there's a natural finisher in our midfield, Mallan in his 1st season scored from free kicks and shots, Allan was always vert capable of chipping in with a few but I don't see anyone else helping out enough.
    Newell seems to get himself into the most decent positions but his finishing hasn't been great. With him though, I always get the feeling he's at least capable of better.

    I thought Irvine would carry a goal threat, from set pieces too.

    Set pieces have possibly been a bit disappointing this season, our centre-halves have always carried a bit of a threat over the past few seasons and they've had few goals this season.

    I guess it does leave you very reliant on the striker (s) being in scoring form.

  17. #46
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    Newell has come the closest to being a high goalscoring mid this season - has got himself into good positions quite often and has got a good proportion of his shots on target. Has been a bit unlucky not to score a couple more than he has (one?).

    Other than that, we have two talented attacking mids out on loan in - Mallan has scored a phenomenal amount for a midfielder, but it has been well discussed that he has needed to bring something more to the table to be a guaranteed first pick at ER. Also I think Fraser Murray has goals in him. We can hope that one or both come back from their loan spells having added the necessary ingredients to their games to force their way into the Hibs 1st team - otherwise the search goes on.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    Newell has come the closest to being a high goalscoring mid this season - has got himself into good positions quite often and has got a good proportion of his shots on target. Has been a bit unlucky not to score a couple more than he has (one?).

    Other than that, we have two talented attacking mids out on loan in - Mallan has scored a phenomenal amount for a midfielder, but it has been well discussed that he has needed to bring something more to the table to be a guaranteed first pick at ER. Also I think Fraser Murray has goals in him. We can hope that one or both come back from their loan spells having added the necessary ingredients to their games to force their way into the Hibs 1st team - otherwise the search goes on.
    I remember Collins criticising Dean Shiels saying he couldn't really work out what he was - a striker, a wide player, an attacking midfielder? With Murray, it just looks a bit tricky to find a place for him in a functional team - where do you play him? The same sort of goes for Mallan, you could argue the same about Scott Allan now - it is very hard to accommodate these players (all good players imo) in a team without giving something pretty major away in midfield. As the season has gone on, Gogic has proven his worth and it appears that what we lose when we play him is more easily accommodated than what we lose when we don't play him.

    If anything, I see Mallan, Allan or Murray possibly being a second striker occasionally dropping deeper, but in a 352.

  19. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by keep the faith View Post
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    Scott Allan
    Never been prolific

  20. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    All 2 of them! Lol... we’re not missing anything.
    I think that alongside Gogic and Irvine then he'd be able to do what he does best whilst allowing the two of them to do the hard work.

    It's getting tougher and tougher to justify trying him the longer it comes on, but at points in the first season with us Mallan was absolutely outstanding and deserving of his double POTY award win at the end of the season dinner. If that's still in him then that would be mega.


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  21. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    I think that alongside Gogic and Irvine then he'd be able to do what he does best whilst allowing the two of them to do the hard work.

    It's getting tougher and tougher to justify trying him the longer it comes on, but at points in the first season with us Mallan was absolutely outstanding and deserving of his double POTY award win at the end of the season dinner. If that's still in him then that would be mega.

    In 18-19 season Mallan scored 13 in 48 games which is very good for a midfielder and when you look at the midfield options that season it makes it even more remarkable, Slivka played 39 games, Bartley 21 and Milligan 31, with Omeonga 17 and Hyndman 19. When you look at those midfielders you can see just how weak we were.

  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    In 18-19 season Mallan scored 13 in 48 games which is very good for a midfielder and when you look at the midfield options that season it makes it even more remarkable, Slivka played 39 games, Bartley 21 and Milligan 31, with Omeonga 17 and Hyndman 19. When you look at those midfielders you can see just how weak we were.
    When you see who those goals were against, it starts to unfold a bit though, IMO.

    4 against Ruvavik, a tie we won by 7 goals against a part time side
    2 against Hamilton in a 6 goal win
    1 against Elgin in a 4-0 win

    Thats over half the goals in 4 games, against absolutely rubbish sides. So he got 6 goals in 44 games otherwise, which is pretty average considered he took every free kick, shot constantly and offered very little in general play. I'm not saying those goals dont matter btw, just that they weren't that important. He scored 1 goal against Celtic/Rangers/Aberdeen/Hearts in 30 or so games. Dreadful record (in those games)
    Last edited by MWHIBBIES; 13-04-2021 at 04:40 PM.

  23. #52
    Pun Lovin' Criminal Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    When you see who those goals were against, it starts to unfold a bit though, IMO.

    4 against Ruvavik, a tie we won by 7 goals against a part time side
    2 against Hamilton in a 6 goal win
    1 against Elgin in a 4-0 win

    Thats over half the goals in 4 games, against absolutely rubbish sides. So he got 6 goals in 44 games otherwise, which is pretty average considered he took every free kick, shot constantly and offered very little in general play. I'm not saying those goals dont matter btw, just that they weren't that important. He scored 1 goal against Celtic/Rangers/Aberdeen/Hearts in 30 or so games. Dreadful record.
    Massive exaggeration seeing that's probably still putting him in amongst our top scorers from midfield in years.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  24. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    Massive exaggeration seeing that's probably still putting him in amongst our top scorers from midfield in years.
    I'm speaking specifically about his record against the 4 other big sides.

  25. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    When you see who those goals were against, it starts to unfold a bit though, IMO. 4 against Ruvavik, a tie we won by 7 goals against a part time side 2 against Hamilton in a 6 goal win 1 against Elgin in a 4-0 win Thats over half the goals in 4 games, against absolutely rubbish sides. So he got 6 goals in 44 games otherwise, which is pretty average considered he took every free kick, shot constantly and offered very little in general play. I'm not saying those goals dont matter btw, just that they weren't that important. He scored 1 goal against Celtic/Rangers/Aberdeen/Hearts in 30 or so games. Dreadful record (in those games)

    Mallan has great shooting ability when given the space to have a pop and is a talented player with creative ability - it's when we are OUT of possession that his weaknesses have been exposed. He usually needs a proper defensive midfielder in the side with him to prosper and even then can be like a man down when out of possession.

    He has occasionally got the act together and turned in well rounded performances but the defensive side doesn't seem to come naturally to him and it has cost us on occasion - which is what lead to him losing his place in the side this season as I recall. A 2-2 draw with St Johnstone comes to mind when an opponent ran through Stevie like he just wasn't there in the run up to one of their goals.

    If he could get that side of his game sorted we would have a real quality player on our hands.
    Last edited by basehibby; 13-04-2021 at 09:43 PM.

  26. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    Mallan has great shooting ability when given the space to have a pop and is a talented player with creative ability - it's when we are OUT of possession that his weaknesses have been exposed. He usually needs a proper defensive midfielder in the side with him to prosper and even then can be like a man down when out of possession.

    He has occasionally got the act together and turned in well rounded performances but the defensive side doesn't seem to come naturally to him and it has cost us on occasion - which is what lead to him losing his place in the side this season as I recall. A 2-2 draw with St Johnstone comes to mind when an opponent ran through Stevie like he just wasn't there in the run up to one of their goals.

    If he could get that side of his game sorted we would have a real quality player on our hands.
    I actually disagree. I think you need to offer a lot more than shooting to be considered a good player in attack. He consistently gave the ball away, was pushed off it, couldn't beat a man, couldn't dictate the game, is pretty slow and couldn't drive the team on. He had decent passing, some nice touches and of course some great goals. Newall, Irvine, Allan are all much better players.

  27. #56
    I quite like Mallan and defended him on here quite a few times however I've got to admit that we've improved without him and our midfield is better and far more balanced now. He's a talented lad and pulled us out the mire a couple of times with strikes or crosses but like others have said it's when that didn't happen that we struggled a bit.

  28. #57
    I'm not sure there is a goal scoring midfielder in Scotland at the moment? Is there a player out there scoring more than 10 a season? The one mentioned from St Mirren is nearly all pens.

  29. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Brightside View Post
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    I'm not sure there is a goal scoring midfielder in Scotland at the moment? Is there a player out there scoring more than 10 a season? The one mentioned from St Mirren is nearly all pens.
    David Turnbull probably the closest thing. They are a rarity these days.

  30. #59
    Regan Hendry of Raith 3 goals and 4 assists in 22 games this season, i knkw not exactly prolific but doing very well and had another excellent game for Raith against QOS. Somebody is going to get themselves a very good player next season.

  31. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    Mallan has great shooting ability when given the space to have a pop and is a talented player with creative ability - it's when we are OUT of possession that his weaknesses have been exposed. He usually needs a proper defensive midfielder in the side with him to prosper and even then can be like a man down when out of possession.

    He has occasionally got the act together and turned in well rounded performances but the defensive side doesn't seem to come naturally to him and it has cost us on occasion - which is what lead to him losing his place in the side this season as I recall. A 2-2 draw with St Johnstone comes to mind when an opponent ran through Stevie like he just wasn't there in the run up to one of their goals.

    If he could get that side of his game sorted we would have a real quality player on our hands.
    He wouldn't be on our hands because if he sorted that side of his game he would be playing in the English Premier League like John McGinn is.

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