Shelly Kerr

[superfurryhibby]

Wooden delivery, zero added insight, thick as a pound of mince. Eh, ideally qualified for the, eh, job of punditry on the BBC.

[Bostonhibby]

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The original argument that someone is poor is fine...no issue with that. But you then went down the lane of playing in the womens games doesnt give you the knowledge to comment on the mens game. Thats nonsense. The majority of male ex players that appear on these shows are rubbish. Its nothing to do with the sex of the person. Nothing at all.

Agree with this entirely, but theres no getting away from how inept and inarticulate Kerr is, She's not alone at the BBC where there surely has to be plenty more able options available, irrespective of gender.

Dont really care who it is so long as a knowledgeable, professional approach is taken to the role by someone who can communicate reasonably and contain their own biases/prejudices.

As an aside, one of the most knowledgeable fans I know is my Hibs supporting Sister in law and the highest level she's ever been involved at is watching her kids at Spartans.

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[hibbysam]

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She’s been doing punditry no longer than what, a year? Who knows where she’ll be in a few years time if you perhaps gave her the opportunity to settle and develop further. Really don’t understand your view around the World Cup but after all this Im far from surprised.


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It’s your view on the World Cup, your argument was that she’s been to a World Cup therefore that’s all that’s needed to be in the job she is. She’s piss poor, and shouldn’t be on the tele, likewise a number of others. If your not good enough for a job right now you shouldn’t be in the job right now.

[Brightside]

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No, the person said that because she’d been to a World Cup two years ago she was qualified. That’s not true. I agree the majority of male pundits are poor. Managing a woman’s side doesn’t automatically give you the knowledge and experience to comment on the Scottish Premiership though, just like playing and managing at a lower level of Scottish men’s football doesn’t.

"The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version." Thats what you said. That has zero to do with the ability to discuss a game - no matter the sex. A decent male pundit will be great talking about a womens game and vice versa.

[hibbysam]

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"The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version." Thats what you said. That has zero to do with the ability to discuss a game - no matter the sex. A decent male pundit will be great talking about a womens game and vice versa.

In response to the World Cup comment, and the argument that playing at amateur level is a ridiculous comparison. Where someone has played the game has no bearing, and shouldn’t automatically qualify someone for a job.

[hibsbollah]

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Where someone has played the game has no bearing, and shouldn’t automatically qualify someone for a job.

You are contradicting yourself. Absolutely destroying your own argument.

When you look at the big picture, Scottish football has suffered from crap commentators and crap analysis since TV was invented. And that’s historically been a male commentator problem. If there is the odd new intelligent and interesting voice coming through, whether that’s Richard Foster or Big Marv, or the Hibs girl or Karen Carney, who I like, really doesn’t matter.

[hibbysam]

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You are contradicting yourself. Absolutely destroying your own argument.

When you look at the big picture, Scottish football has suffered from crap commentators and crap analysis since TV was invented. And that’s historically been a male commentator problem. If there is the odd new intelligent and interesting voice coming through, whether that’s Richard Foster or Big Marv, or the Hibs girl or Karen Carney, who I like, really doesn’t matter.

What’s contradictory? The argument from someone was she’s qualified due to being at a World Cup. That’s nonsense. Again, I’ve said that there’s many pundits that are woeful, whether that be male or female, and what they’ve done previously shouldn’t matter when it comes to punditry.

[Tommy75]

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Wooden delivery, zero added insight, thick as a pound of mince. Eh, ideally qualified for the, eh, job of punditry on the BBC.

BBC coverage of the Scottish game is pretty awful. After the game last night a good portion of the chat was around whether Boyle could/should be playing at a higher level. I get it is a reasonable discussion but what must the tournament sponsors etc think when they see pundits wishing away our best players. Fair play to Bartley for pointing out Hibs are a big club.

Time for a total clear out and fresh faces brought in to talk our game up and provide modern, insightful perspectives. Doubt that will ever happen though.

[hibsbollah]

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BBC coverage of the Scottish game is pretty awful. After the game last night a good portion of the chat was around whether Boyle could/should be playing at a higher level. I get it is a reasonable discussion but what must the tournament sponsors etc think when they see pundits wishing away our best players. Fair play to Bartley for pointing out Hibs are a big club.

Time for a total clear out and fresh faces brought in to talk our game up and provide modern, insightful perspectives. Doubt that will ever happen though.

There’s no reason why not. There are loads of intelligent voices on sports broadcasting. They just don’t seem to get jobs especially on the bbc.

[Andy74]

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"The women’s game in this country is a million miles from the male version." Thats what you said. That has zero to do with the ability to discuss a game - no matter the sex. A decent male pundit will be great talking about a womens game and vice versa.

It has a lot to do with it.

We aren’t talking about whether randoms can have good football knowledge. I’m sure they can have.

What we are talking about is the specific pundit role played by ex professionals who are there to add something of their own professional experiences and knowledge. I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

[hibsbollah]

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I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

That is just a ridiculous, ignorant comparison.

[Onion]

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BBC coverage of the Scottish game is pretty awful. After the game last night a good portion of the chat was around whether Boyle could/should be playing at a higher level. I get it is a reasonable discussion but what must the tournament sponsors etc think when they see pundits wishing away our best players. Fair play to Bartley for pointing out Hibs are a big club.

Time for a total clear out and fresh faces brought in to talk our game up and provide modern, insightful perspectives. Doubt that will ever happen though.

BBC Scotland needs to have a Radio One-like purge of the old hands who do the square root of zero to enhance our game and perpetuate the tired perception that the world revolves around Celtic and The Rangers. That doesn't mean filling key roles with females who are as bad or even worse than current male equivalents, just to get their diversification numbers up.

Bartley is first and foremost an intelligent, interesting speaker who doesn't appear to carry any chips on his shoulders and can manage to hide his affinity towards certain clubs. The fact he's black only becomes important when BBC start to look at their diversity profile. It should be in that order.

[TelaStella]

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What’s contradictory? The argument from someone was she’s qualified due to being at a World Cup. That’s nonsense. Again, I’ve said that there’s many pundits that are woeful, whether that be male or female, and what they’ve done previously shouldn’t matter when it comes to punditry.

It wasn’t the only argument I was making you just seem a bit too carried away by it. Odd because I can’t imagine why taking a team to a World Cup wouldn’t benefit you to be capable enough to chat about football but I’m not saying anymore on the point. There may be many pundits that are awful as you keep saying but the scrutiny you’re venting towards her for being a woman and therefore apparently incapable of understanding football like you or I am is honking. Nothing else to add on the matter.


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[Hibs90]

Nah, Joelle is fine. Knowledgeable about the game and gets her point across really well. I'd like to see her get a shot on Sportscene or something. As does Leanne Crichton, knowledgeable and makes good points. Shelly Kerr just spouts dramatic nonsense.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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It has a lot to do with it.

We aren’t talking about whether randoms can have good football knowledge. I’m sure they can have.

What we are talking about is the specific pundit role played by ex professionals who are there to add something of their own professional experiences and knowledge. I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

It’s not really. The level of snobbery in football is quite telling - I heard Ian McCall tell Daryl Broadfoot last night that he couldn’t comment on performance management cos he’d never been involved in the game.

I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a real job is more capable to speak about performance management than a footballer.

[superfurryhibby]

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It’s not really. The level of snobbery in football is quite telling - I heard Ian McCall tell Daryl Broadfoot last night that he couldn’t comment on performance management cos he’d never been involved in the game.

I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a real job is more capable to speak about performance management than a footballer.

To add context. McCall was making a broader point about referees and their poor decision making and the issue of the SFA not addressing routine incompetence. Both McCall and Levein were debating this with Broadfoot, who was being his usual conceited ******** self. McCall was allowing himself to get a bit riled by Broadfoot, but most of his points were pretty valid. As part of the conversation there was discussion around how players pay the price for poor performance, both McCall and Levein were saying that ultimately you get dropped from the team. Broadfoot was havering pish about managing player performance and clearly McCall and Levein have a bit more experience of that.

[Brightside]

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It has a lot to do with it.

We aren’t talking about whether randoms can have good football knowledge. I’m sure they can have.

What we are talking about is the specific pundit role played by ex professionals who are there to add something of their own professional experiences and knowledge. I think the women’s game is a long way removed from the men’s game in that respect and it is the equivalent of giving someone who has played at juvenile level a spot as a pundit.

They are asking high profile football personalities to provide punditry. The level doesn't really matter does it? The rules, formations, building blocks of the game are the same. I have no issues with a Juv ex player being on there is they can add something. Gary Caldwell is utter mince as a pundit. Shelly Kerr is mince as a pundit. Its got nothing to do with their sex or the level of football they played. Wait till the public find out that the women pundits get paid less.

[Andy74]

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That is just a ridiculous, ignorant comparison.

It’s not. It is a comparable level in this country in particular.

No issues if they are there something like the journalists that just give a general view but they aren’t really. They are there to give the expert view from inside the game. They don’t have that.

Men’s football and women’s football are very different. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

[Kato]

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BBC Scotland needs to have a Radio One-like purge of the old hands who do the square root of zero to enhance our game and perpetuate the tired perception that the world revolves around Celtic and The Rangers.

Agreed. Get shot of Richard "Smashy" Gordon and Alan "Nicey" Preston for a start.

[Brightside]

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It’s not. It is a comparable level in this country in particular.

No issues if they are there something like the journalists that just give a general view but they aren’t really. They are there to give the expert view from inside the game. They don’t have that.

Men’s football and women’s football are very different. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

Andy - they are the exact same game. They may be played at different fitness & performance levels but its the exact same game. Or do you think that a man can't commentate on a womens games now?

Can a female tennis player or darts player not talk about the mens version of their sports? It make no sense to think otherwise.

[hibbysam]

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It wasn’t the only argument I was making you just seem a bit too carried away by it. Odd because I can’t imagine why taking a team to a World Cup wouldn’t benefit you to be capable enough to chat about football but I’m not saying anymore on the point. There may be many pundits that are awful as you keep saying but the scrutiny you’re venting towards her for being a woman and therefore apparently incapable of understanding football like you or I am is honking. Nothing else to add on the matter.


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Nothing to do with her being a woman, and has never been said by me. The World Cup thing is lazy. Did you see her performance at the World Cup? Or at the subsequent qualifying for the euros? She wasn’t a great coach and the level in the men’s game comparable was the lowland league. Again, all that is irrelevant though, as a pundit shes crap.

[James Stephen]

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Andy - they are the exact same game. They may be played at different fitness & performance levels but its the exact same game. Or do you think that a man can't commentate on a womens games now?

Can a female tennis player or darts player not talk about the mens version of their sports? It make no sense to think otherwise.

I think his point is that either pundits are there because they have played at top level and have that insight, or they aren't.

Shelley Kerr hasnt, and so is being picked on a set of criteria that would open up BBC punditry to anyone from junior fitba up. That's clearly not the case either.

So the question is, on what criteria are the BBC picking their pundits?

[hibsbollah]

It always, always comes down to negative relative comparisons about women’s football on here. Even when that isn’t the relevant issue (Kerr being a crap pundit). It’s almost like there are some inadequacy issues going on.

[happiehibbie]

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Not sure what the the point is of your last comment. It was a good show with a mix of male and females. As should everything be in life.

The show itself is a huge step forward for the Womens game in Scotland. Clearly done on a tight budget but those involved in the the Scottish Womens game will really appreciate it.

You have answered perfectly. I did not have a clue how it was going to be set up hence I asked.

Glad you enjoyed it

[J-C]

I'm not going to get into the sexist argument here, Kelly along with many other so called expert pundits we have on BBC tv and radio are pretty brutal and only seem to be there because of who they played for or supported. There's a female commentator on MOTD who's voice really grates on me, can't remember her name, nothing to do with her being a woman it's just her voice.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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To add context. McCall was making a broader point about referees and their poor decision making and the issue of the SFA not addressing routine incompetence. Both McCall and Levein were debating this with Broadfoot, who was being his usual conceited ******** self. McCall was allowing himself to get a bit riled by Broadfoot, but most of his points were pretty valid. As part of the conversation there was discussion around how players pay the price for poor performance, both McCall and Levein were saying that ultimately you get dropped from the team. Broadfoot was havering pish about managing player performance and clearly McCall and Levein have a bit more experience of that.

He was and Broadfoot didn’t want to get into it. He did suggest that football manager knows more about performance management than others though when in reality it’s the opposite.

[patlowe]

Representation really matters IMO and I applaud the BBC, Sky etc for makingquite obvious efforts to increase the diversity of panels/presenters etc and moving away from the old boys club of old. Really not sure why it makes people feel so uncomfortable to have a diverse panel every week on Sportscene - is it really such a hardship when the potential upside is that people from historically unrepresented or disadvantaged groups see themselves reflected and might think football or a career in TV or public life might be for them?

And if this is really about 'insight' on the game then all the former pros who spout on about how "it's a different sport these days" because you can't tackle/bully/assault anymore (not to mention the vast differences in body shape/speed etc ) should be immediately replaced by current players as they are clearly not qualified to speak with any authority on football.

Edit: I am not saying you can't be critical of female pundits, just commenting on the problems some people seem to have with representation and diversity on our TV screens.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is it ok to say i dont like the glasgow accent or the tone that's in either?



There should be a list on the front page on what's acceptable and whats not.

[matty_f]

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Representation really matters IMO and I applaud the BBC, Sky etc for makingquite obvious efforts to increase the diversity of panels/presenters etc and moving away from the old boys club of old. Really not sure why it makes people feel so uncomfortable to have a diverse panel every week on Sportscene - is it really such a hardship when the potential upside is that people from historically unrepresented or disadvantaged groups see themselves reflected and might think football or a career in TV or public life might be for them?

And if this is really about 'insight' on the game then all the former pros who spout on about how "it's a different sport these days" because you can't tackle/bully/assault anymore (not to mention the vast differences in body shape/speed etc ) should be immediately replaced by current players as they are clearly not qualified to speak with any authority on football.

Edit: I am not saying you can't be critical of female pundits, just commenting on the problems some people seem to have with representation and diversity on our TV screens.

Great post.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Is it ok to say i dont like the glasgow accent or the tone that's in either?



There should be a list on the front page on what's acceptable and whats not.

I don’t know what you said BH but there is a set of rules that you have to tick to say you’ve read and understood (well there used to be).

And I hope annoying Glasgow accents can be called out.