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  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    For someone that isnít fit or focussed heís still been performing very well when he gets game time. If his fitness or focus is in question because of NL throwing him under the bus, Iím not sure how much credence Iíd give to that really. His performances donít seem to back up the idea that he has fitness or focus issues. If he did, he wouldnít have a better strike rate per minute than every other player in the league. As much as heís an exceptional player, heís not good enough to be able to do that unfit and unfocused imo.
    It was nothing to do with Lennon. He came back well out of condition..Lennon had every right to feel let down.

    Not sure why you are battling the simple factual point that Griffithsís attitude and application is a risk that would need to be assessed. Itís just a common sense topic


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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    For someone that isnít fit or focussed heís still been performing very well when he gets game time. If his fitness or focus is in question because of NL throwing him under the bus, Iím not sure how much credence Iíd give to that really. His performances donít seem to back up the idea that he has fitness or focus issues. If he did, he wouldnít have a better strike rate per minute than every other player in the league. As much as heís an exceptional player, heís not good enough to be able to do that unfit and unfocused imo.
    How many minutes has he played?
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  4. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    How many minutes has he played?
    826.

  5. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    It was nothing to do with Lennon. He came back well out of condition..Lennon had every right to feel let down.

    Not sure why you are battling the simple factual point that Griffithsís attitude and application is a risk that would need to be assessed. Itís just a common sense topic
    Itís a risk that always needs assessed no matter who were signing.

    Iím not sure why itís more of a necessity with LG though.

  6. #635
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    Leigh Griffiths to Aberdeen

    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Itís a risk that always needs assessed no matter who were signing.

    Iím not sure why itís more of a necessity with LG though.
    Because he displayed his lack of discipline at the start of this season - Most players havenít ever done that. are you completely ignoring that he ****ed up badly earlier this season ??

  7. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Because he displayed his lack of discipline at the start of this season - Most players havenít ever done that. are you completely ignoring that he ****ed up badly earlier this season ??
    ****ed up badly doing what? He was injured at the start of this season.

  8. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    ****ed up badly doing what? He was injured at the start of this season.
    he returned to training out of condition and overweight. Thatís why he didnít go on pre season tour ..hugely unprofessional

  9. #638
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    he returned to training out of condition and overweight. Thatís why he didnít go on pre season tour ..hugely unprofessional
    Iím not sure Iím going to lose much sleep over that really. Turns up slightly overweight at the start of one pre season in his career after a break a lot longer than any other in his career during a global pandemic. Obviously done a decent enough job getting himself back into shape to be producing on the pitch like he still is.

    Was similar not said about Nisbet earlier in his career? I donít remember the desperation to consider not signing him based on his focus and fitness or professionalism.
    Last edited by calumhibee1; 20-04-2021 at 10:05 AM.

  10. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Iím not sure Iím going to lose much sleep over that really. Turns up slightly overweight at the start of one pre season in his career after a break a lot longer than any other in his career.

    Was similar not said about Nisbet earlier in his career? I donít remember the desperation to consider not signing him based on his focus and fitness or professionalism.
    No. Nisbet was not kept behind to get his fitness sorted out ....and never questioned on his professional approach

    No one is saying it is a showstopper..but Hibs should be at least treating it as a warning sign should they have a chance to sign him

    There remains a question mark over Griffiths attitude and preparation. Itís never really gone away this season . It was caused by his own actions ....Iím not close enough to it to know if that is fair these days - but hope our recruitment team are

  11. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    No. Nisbet was not kept behind to get his fitness sorted out ....and never questioned on his professional approach

    No one is saying it is a showstopper..but Hibs should be at least treating it as a warning sign should they have a chance to sign him

    There remains a question mark over Griffiths attitude and preparation. Itís never really gone away this season . It was caused by his own actions ....Iím not close enough to it to know if that is fair these days - but hope our recruitment team are
    ď However, Nisbet has admitted himself that, since leaving Thistle, his attitude was far from perfect and that's what Smith would have to change.Ē

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/51068080.amp


    Nisbet did have an attitude problem. Thatís absolutely a question over his professional approach.

    Whilst itís fair that questions should be asked of Griffiths in the same way they should be of any signing, Iím not sure why a player who brought everyone so much pleasure, has had an outstanding career, is one of us and has never badmouthed is, is still performing to a very high level in our league is being made to be held to a higher standard of professionalism than someone like Nisbet who clearly had similar issues at one point yet never had anything like the amount of scepticism LG gets. Infact, Iíd be surprised if it was even mentioned with Nisbet.

    This team is crying out for a maverick like LG to liven it up a bit imo. Coming back to pre season overweight once in his career isnít something that should stop that happening.
    Last edited by calumhibee1; 20-04-2021 at 10:26 AM.

  12. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    ď However, Nisbet has admitted himself that, since leaving Thistle, his attitude was far from perfect and that's what Smith would have to change.Ē

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...l/51068080.amp


    Nisbet did have an attitude problem. Thatís absolutely a question over his professional approach.

    Whilst itís fair that questions should be asked of Griffiths in the same way they should be of any signing, Iím not sure why a player who brought everyone so much pleasure, has had an outstanding career, is one of us, , is still performing to a very high level in our league is now being made to be held to a higher standard than someone like Nisbet who clearly had similar issues at one point yet never had anything like the amount of scepticism LG gets.
    Nisbet has proven himself since leaving Thistle . Itís not hard to notice his performance levels have improved and he is on an upward trajectory ..therefore, whilst it might have been a discussion point, he has lots of evidence that is behind him . Griffiths still has a question mark over him.. You seem to be dismissing it as somewhat irrelevant , which comes over a bit illogical

    anyway, weíve had a decent exchange on this - not going to keep the ping pong going . Itís clear that LG fit and happy is a top striker . Equally itís fair there are some doubts around his application ..hope they prove to be behind him also .

  13. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Iím not sure Iím going to lose much sleep over that really. Turns up slightly overweight at the start of one pre season in his career after a break a lot longer than any other in his career during a global pandemic. Obviously done a decent enough job getting himself back into shape to be producing on the pitch like he still is.

    Was similar not said about Nisbet earlier in his career? I donít remember the desperation to consider not signing him based on his focus and fitness or professionalism.
    Most of us loved Efe and he came back for pre season when he fancied. Lennon wasn't overly fussed with that though. No doubt Leigh has some demons but he still looked like one of the best strikers in the league when he got the opportunity to play. No idea, given how hopeless Celtc were, why he didn't get more game time. Not like his manager had form for holding grudges particularly against strikers. If the finances work out then Leigh would be a great addition albeit with some risks. That is the case with most players though and many don't work out even if they are the perfect professionals.

  14. #643
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Nisbet has proven himself since leaving Thistle . Itís not hard to notice his performance levels have improved and he is on an upward trajectory ..therefore, whilst it might have been a discussion point, he has lots of evidence that is behind him . Griffiths still has a question mark over him.. You seem to be dismissing it as somewhat irrelevant , which comes over a bit illogical

    anyway, weíve had a decent exchange on this - not going to keep the ping pong going . Itís clear that LG fit and happy is a top striker . Equally itís fair there are some doubts around his application ..hope they prove to be behind him also .

  15. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookie70 View Post
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    Most of us loved Efe and he came back for pre season when he fancied. Lennon wasn't overly fussed with that though. No doubt Leigh has some demons but he still looked like one of the best strikers in the league when he got the opportunity to play. No idea, given how hopeless Celtc were, why he didn't get more game time. Not like his manager had form for holding grudges particularly against strikers. If the finances work out then Leigh would be a great addition albeit with some risks. That is the case with most players though and many don't work out even if they are the perfect professionals.
    Yup.

    NLs treatment of Griffiths was incredibly poor but he has been so public about it that Griffithsí issues seem to have been blown up into being something which he potentially canít come back from.

    In reality, heís inexplicably sitting on the bench nearly every week because heís fit and available. When they reluctantly give him game time heís scoring at an incredible rate. Celtic are an absolute shambles.

  16. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    There remains a question mark over Griffiths attitude and preparation. Itís never really gone away this season . It was caused by his own actions ....Iím not close enough to it to know if that is fair these days - but hope our recruitment team are
    Agree with this. I would love Leigh back but there are a number of warning signs that shouldn't be dismissed because of his previous history. It's fairly clear the Celtic fans want him out. The fans are usually a good judge of a player and a lot clearly feel let down by him. That wouldn't be the case if it was just a case of Lennon not giving him a fair shot.

    Leigh must also have known this contract option was on the horizon and given its worth he clearly should have had strong motivation for performing this season. Again, I think its clear from the fans that he's not done that. Hibs clearly can't match that motivation and its a step down in his career. Once that downward spiral starts then you really need dedication to continue to perform at a high level.

    I've seen a lot of players leave Hibs for bigger clubs and then return later in their careers. I don't think any have been as good as in their first spell.

    If Hibs go for this, and I would like them to, they have to be sure that Leigh has the dedication to make it work.

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  17. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    826.
    Less than ten matches in total. I think that lessens the relevance of the goals per minute stat as itís a pretty small sample size.
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  18. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeithMike View Post
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    Agree with this. I would love Leigh back but there are a number of warning signs that shouldn't be dismissed because of his previous history. It's fairly clear the Celtic fans want him out. The fans are usually a good judge of a player and a lot clearly feel let down by him. That wouldn't be the case if it was just a case of Lennon not giving him a fair shot.

    Leigh must also have known this contract option was on the horizon and given its worth he clearly should have had strong motivation for performing this season. Again, I think its clear from the fans that he's not done that. Hibs clearly can't match that motivation and its a step down in his career. Once that downward spiral starts then you really need dedication to continue to perform at a high level.

    I've seen a lot of players leave Hibs for bigger clubs and then return later in their careers. I don't think any have been as good as in their first spell.

    If Hibs go for this, and I would like them to, they have to be sure that Leigh has the dedication to make it work.

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    A pay per game deal might help balance the risk ....

  19. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Yup.

    NLs treatment of Griffiths was incredibly poor but he has been so public about it that Griffithsí issues seem to have been blown up into being something which he potentially canít come back from.

    In reality, heís inexplicably sitting on the bench nearly every week because heís fit and available. When they reluctantly give him game time heís scoring at an incredible rate. Celtic are an absolute shambles.
    Yeah but you do have a fairly firm view that everything done by Celtic and Neil Lennon is bad.

    In reality Griffiths was a participating factor in Celtic not having performed as well as they can. He might be available now but there were clearly times when he could not be relied upon. Of course he is a good player and will produce when the plays - this is why he was getting criticised for not always being in the position of being able to be used properly. Celtic went weeks at a key period early in the season without a striker.

    With Griffiths it is clearly one of the factors that will be weighed up by any team looking to spend very good wages on him.

  20. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    he returned to training out of condition and overweight. Thatís why he didnít go on pre season tour ..hugely unprofessional

    No point denying this and it would be a risk. I think Leigh is one of these high maintenance players who requires a lot of man management - complete opposite to, say, Lewis.

    However, at the risk of widening this argument, Iíd also say that Neil Lennon could have maybe looked at himself before accusing others of unprofessionalism.

    Would Jack Ross take time out from an Ďintensiveí warm weather training camp to have a beer or two by the pool? I doubt it.

    I think Jack will be wary of Leigh. Our manager clearly puts huge faith in the system and work rate. At the same time, itís a managerís job to get the best out of their players, and integrate more complex characters who wonít be as disciplined but can also serve up the bit of magic needed at times.

  21. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    A pay per game deal might help balance the risk ....
    With his experience, and with his continuing proven ability, I think he would expect a decent and solid contract. If we don't offer it someone will. He would be right to expect one and - as you alluded to earlier - people closer to the situation would decide if he's worth it.

    I'm a big fan of our model of signing and developing good younger players with potential. Going into Europe though a bit if age an experience to help them along could be vital. Griffiths certainly fits the bill.

  22. #651
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    To put this into perspective, a number of Celtic players clearly had attitude problems this season, for whatever reason, including Edouard. This may not have manifested itself in a lack of physical fitness for all of the players but it certainly hampered their performances. I'm sure we wouldn't knock back Edouard if he were on a free transfer and an affordable wage ...

  23. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
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    With his experience, and with his continuing proven ability, I think he would expect a decent and solid contract. If we don't offer it someone will. He would be right to expect one and - as you alluded to earlier - people closer to the situation would decide if he's worth it.

    I'm a big fan of our model of signing and developing good younger players with potential. Going into Europe though a bit if age an experience to help them along could be vital. Griffiths certainly fits the bill.
    Yeah. He will want a bigger commitment than a per game game fee for sure .... As you say out recruitment approach has been pretty solid of late , so if we do have a chance Iím sure we will try to get him and we will assess it appropriately...

  24. #653
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    Yeah but you do have a fairly firm view that everything done by Celtic and Neil Lennon is bad.

    In reality Griffiths was a participating factor in Celtic not having performed as well as they can. He might be available now but there were clearly times when he could not be relied upon. Of course he is a good player and will produce when the plays - this is why he was getting criticised for not always being in the position of being able to be used properly. Celtic went weeks at a key period early in the season without a striker.

    With Griffiths it is clearly one of the factors that will be weighed up by any team looking to spend very good wages on him.
    Yeah, Iím not sure anyone would argue that your first statement sums NL and his recent time at Celtic up perfectly.

    Griffiths had a calf strain for the first 8 weeks or so of the season. Iím not quite sure how critical you can be of him for not being available at that point

  25. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Nisbet had an attitude/poor life style problem at Thistle. He has sorted it out since then.

    But think there is a legitimate question mark over Griffiths: professionalism; gambling; juggling multiple famlies; and mental heath issues. A lot of money to bet he will sort it all out at 30 with still some dosh in his bank account.
    Last edited by FilipinoHibs; 20-04-2021 at 11:22 AM.

  26. #655
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    Regardless of what we think, Hibs will take all the factors associated with Griffiths into consideration.

    If he signs up, he'll become one of the best paid players in our history.

    It's far from being a "no brainer".

  27. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Yeah, Iím not sure anyone would argue that your first statement sums NL and his recent time at Celtic up perfectly.

    Griffiths had a calf strain for the first 8 weeks or so of the season. Iím not quite sure how critical you can be of him for not being available at that point
    For what it is worth I agree with your posts regarding LG. This season was a disaster by Celticís standards, struggling to think of any of their players who have performed to the same standards as they have in previous seasons. LG may well deserve some criticism for coming back out of condition for pre season, but not everyone coped well with lockdown.

    Iíve never heard any previous criticism of LGís attitude and his work ethic in a football environment and have no concerns he would do anything other than act in a professional manner if he does return to us. The little Iíve seen of him this season he still looks like a player who will score a lot of goals given regular game time.

  28. #657
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffers View Post
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    For what it is worth I agree with your posts regarding LG. This season was a disaster by Celticís standards, struggling to think of any of their players who have performed to the same standards as they have in previous seasons. LG may well deserve some criticism for coming back out of condition for pre season, but not everyone coped well with lockdown.

    Iíve never heard any previous criticism of LGís attitude and his work ethic in a football environment and have no concerns he would do anything other than act in a professional manner if he does return to us. The little Iíve seen of him this season he still looks like a player who will score a lot of goals given regular game time.
    Yup.

    Griffiths has suddenly developed all sorts of Ďbaggageí that is pretty much unwarranted because Lennon needed a fall guy much like he needed a fall guy when he was at Hibs.

    Before NL made him a scapegoat there had never been criticisms of his attitude or professionalism. Infact, he usually looked like one of the hardest workers in the pitch and his team mates, including our very own Paul Hanlon say that he used to just turn up to training, put in the work, keep his head down and leave. Thereís no reason to believe any of thatís changed.

  29. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs View Post
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    Nisbet had an attitude/poor life style problem at Thistle. He has sorted it out since then.

    But think there is a legitimate question mark over Griffiths: professionalism; gambling; juggling multiple famlies; and mental heath issues. A lot of money to bet he will sort it all out at 30 with still some dosh in his bank account.
    Iím not quite sure what the amount of women Griffiths has kids to or the amount of money in his bank account has to do with his ability to come back to Hibs and do a job..

  30. #659
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    Has anyone considered that Celtic might keep him? £1m wages is not really that much to a club like them, considering they will have a top striker who's proven at this standard.

    They will be offloading a few players this summer, Griffiths could be one of them, but they currently have a player they know will add goals to their squad, and for not that much money for them, they might just keep him.

  31. #660
    I wish I was as 'overweight' as Leigh was at the start of the season.

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