St Johnstone v Hibs

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Good post.

I think the fans not being there has definitely had an impact on some of our home displays and negated 'home advantage'. Even an angry crowd is likely to spark some sort of reaction from the team. However, as you say there have been a number of displays which have been Butcher-esque/latter day Lennon ie we go a goal down and spend the rest of the game showing no discernible strategy for retrieving the situation - and that surely has to come down to the manager. While I can't imagine he instructs the team to go out and start as though they're not interested I can't fathom what our first-half tactics are at present.

Sure, if we finish third it's a very good season on paper but like you I'm not deriving much enjoyment from the football on show. Over our last 10 games or so we've lost at home to Ross County, Livi and Motherwell, been thumped in the cup by St Johnstone and lost again to them yesterday, conceding a total of 11 goals and scoring none. There's no positive way of framing that and that's why it's so hard to get any sense that this is a season to savour.

I concur.

[fiolex1]

Leading up to the goal was poor also. Not a great header from Newell, poor clearance from Doig, poor closing down of Craig who had plenty of time to switch feet , and not the best goalkeeping

[hibbysam]

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It's been a miserable season with hardly any moments to remember, if we manage to emulate what Motherwell did last season you can jump up & down proclaiming the statistical fact that its better than most, but we are just as likely to follow it up with a bottom 6 struggle next season - as the team who finished third last season have.

In who’s world is it likely we will fold like a pack of cards next season and finish bottom 6?

[Shrekko]

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I think that's a large part of the frustration many fans are feeling. On paper, I've found it hard to fault Ross's signings yet despite putting together what looks like a stronger squad than most we all too often look no better (and in some games signifcantly worse) than teams some distance below us in the table. Sure, the league table doesn't lie but as you say there's a sense that if we do manage to remain third it will be a case of 'getting over the line' rather than via a convincing and uplifting finale to the season. Some seem to be saying that the manner in which we achieve it is irrelevant, but we can surely aspire to better than that?

This thing about what we should be ‘aspiring’ to seems to be the current criticism that some Hibs fans are throwing at each other ... particularly at the moment when a lot of people feel being 3rd is good going and some want that plus super sexy football - the kind you rarely see anywhere far less in Scotland.

When we were 3rd under Mowbray we completely ‘fell over the line’ and could be woefully inconsistent considering the talent we had.

These ‘aspirations’ a lot of of our fan base seem to have are baffling considering everyone knows it’s a 2 team league and let’s be frank - how often have we been in the top 3 in the past 40 years? What club have these people been watching?

[The Modfather]

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This thing about what we should be ‘aspiring’ to seems to be the current criticism that some Hibs fans are throwing at each other ... particularly at the moment when a lot of people feel being 3rd is good going and some want that plus super sexy football - the kind you rarely see anywhere far less in Scotland.

When we were 3rd under Mowbray we completely ‘fell over the line’ and could be woefully inconsistent considering the talent we had.

These ‘aspirations’ a lot of of our fan base seem to have are baffling considering everyone knows it’s a 2 team league and let’s be frank - how often have we been in the top 3 in the past 40 years? What club have these people been watching?

I think we have recruited well and have a good squad. I don’t think, a lot of the time anyway, we are getting as much out of our squad as we could and should be. Certainly in terms of style and a more positive approach to games. We’re in a good position league wise but still less than the sum of our parts IMO.

With the money we have spent and the squad we’ve assembled I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to want a better and more enjoyable style of football. One that doesn’t have to intrinsically be linked to being less competitive than we currently are in the league.

[G B Young]

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I think we have recruited well and have a good squad. I don’t think, a lot of the time anyway, we are getting as much out of our squad as we could and should be. Certainly in terms of style and a more positive approach to games. We’re in a good position league wise but still less than the sum of our parts IMO.

With the money we have spent and the squad we’ve assembled I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to want a better and more enjoyable style of football. One that doesn’t have to intrinsically be linked to being less competitive than we currently are in the league.

Agreed.

[Shrekko]

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I think we have recruited well and have a good squad. I don’t think, a lot of the time anyway, we are getting as much out of our squad as we could and should be. Certainly in terms of style and a more positive approach to games. We’re in a good position league wise but still less than the sum of our parts IMO.

With the money we have spent and the squad we’ve assembled I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to want a better and more enjoyable style of football. One that doesn’t have to intrinsically be linked to being less competitive than we currently are in the league.

And you do agree that if we were scoring more but conceding more we’d have people whining about us being ‘soft centred’ etc etc ?

I agree at times it’s a difficult watch but to say it’s not pretty much always like this is stretching it. I don’t think anyone below us is playing better football - do you?

[Bangkok Hibby]

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That was my take on it too.

Watched it back a few times now and thought it was a poor effort by Marciano. Surprised it's not been mentioned by more people.

Probably because you're shot down in flames by the Marciano defenders on here. I've asked the question twice now, apart from a few great saves a season why is he rated so highly?
Plenty whataboutery as in would you rather have A or B and but of course that's not the question. For me he is our most over rated player and here I feel I must explain I dont think he's crap. I like to use English as it is meant to be used, so by over rated I mean possibly our highest rated player by the majority of people on here. I've never agreed with that.

[The Modfather]

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And you do agree that if we were scoring more but conceding more we’d have people whining about us being ‘soft centred’ etc etc ?

I agree at times it’s a difficult watch but to say it’s not pretty much always like this is stretching it. I don’t think anyone below us is playing better football - do you?

Possibly, but I can only speak for myself. I’ve not enjoyed this season overall and while I viewed my season ticket this season as more of a donation. Next season I’m not sure I’d be willing to do the same if I’m likely to not enjoy the football again. Which would be the same concerns if we were attending games.

I think we have the players to play a more enjoyable type of football without having to sacrifice us being competitive for 3rd/4th as we are. As an example it only took Mowbray a pre season to play an unrecognisable style from Williamson the previous season with pretty much the same players. As I say, I think we’re functional but less than the sum of our parts as we’ve recruited a good squad and we play within ourselves.

[Shrekko]

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Possibly, but I can only speak for myself. I’ve not enjoyed this season overall and while I viewed my season ticket this season as more of a donation. Next season I’m not sure I’d be willing to do the same if I’m likely to not enjoy the football again. Which would be the same concerns if we were attending games.

I think we have the players to play a more enjoyable type of football without having to sacrifice us being competitive for 3rd/4th as we are. As an example it only took Mowbray a pre season to play an unrecognisable style from Williamson the previous season with pretty much the same players. As I say, I think we’re functional but less than the sum of our parts as we’ve recruited a good squad and we play within ourselves.

You make a lot of fair points and as I say, I don’t entirely disagree.

I just think football is changing - not for the better, in that it’s becoming more like chess and it’s the same everywhere. How often do you hear people bemoaning how boring the EPL games are? And they are btw.

Pitches have also been atrocious for some reason this year, but as dull as we’ve sometimes been I’d definitely say we’re the best of the rest most weeks. Not saying much I agree.

[Jones28]

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6488183]

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There is absolutely no positives to take from a defeat to St Johnstone where we hardly laid a glove on them. It’s not a case of only seeing the negatives, there was absolutely no positives from yesterday to take.

What exactly did we do in the game to deserve something from it? Have a lot of the ball in a second half when we were already 1-0 down and do nothing with it? Yippee.

Undeserved? We done absolutely nothing to get back into that game even though we had 75 minutes to do so. We deserved nothing.

I’m going to call it a day. You and I will not see eye to eye on this so there’s no point in talking about it. If you don’t like my comments on games put me on ignore.

[calumhibee1]

[QUOTE=Jones28;6488488]

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I’m going to call it a day. You and I will not see eye to eye on this so there’s no point in talking about it. If you don’t like my comments on games put me on ignore.

I have absolutely no issue with your comments. I don’t agree with them but I have no problem at all reading them/discussing them.

What positives do you think there was yesterday that I’m refusing to see?

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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In who’s world is it likely we will fold like a pack of cards next season and finish bottom 6?

We finished bottom six last season, hardly unthinkable that we will again next season, do you really think we are so much better than the likes of St Johnstone? Or the team who finished 3rd last year?

[Crunchie]

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Probably because you're shot down in flames by the Marciano defenders on here. I've asked the question twice now, apart from a few great saves a season why is he rated so highly?
Plenty whataboutery as in would you rather have A or B and but of course that's not the question. For me he is our most over rated player and here I feel I must explain I dont think he's crap. I like to use English as it is meant to be used, so by over rated I mean possibly our highest rated player by the majority of people on here. I've never agreed with that.

I think he's a very good shot stopper, not so good at crosses but my biggest criticism of him would be his reluctance to catch the ball. Way too many times he palms the ball out when it looks just as easy to catch it. Come to think of it he's not the only keeper that does it, must be something to do with the modern ball

[hibbysam]

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We finished bottom six last season, hardly unthinkable that we will again next season, do you really think we are so much better than the likes of St Johnstone? Or the team who finished 3rd last year?

Over the course of the season, we are currently 15 and 17 points ahead respectively. We are worlds away from last year with our current manager and our current squad.

[Jones28]

[QUOTE=calumhibee1;6488513]

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I have absolutely no issue with your comments. I don’t agree with them but I have no problem at all reading them/discussing them.

What positives do you think there was yesterday that I’m refusing to see?

We were totally dominant in the second half, we had them penned in for long spells and the manager made positive changes to try and influence the game. Hanlon and Porteous played really well and drove the team on.
Gogic showed in the second half that he’s a footballer and not just a hatchet man. The only criticism I’d level at Ross is the slow start but the hibs tv guys said he was vocal on the touch line so he doesn’t cop the blame for that imo. I maybe would have brought Allan on but if not match fit then I can see why Hallberg was chosen.

There’s more but honestly I don’t see the point when people are so opposed to what I say, just a waste of everyone’s time especially when your description of yesterday is so at odds with my take on it.

[calumhibee1]

[QUOTE=Jones28;6488856]

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We were totally dominant in the second half, we had them penned in for long spells and the manager made positive changes to try and influence the game. Hanlon and Porteous played really well and drove the team on.
Gogic showed in the second half that he’s a footballer and not just a hatchet man. The only criticism I’d level at Ross is the slow start but the hibs tv guys said he was vocal on the touch line so he doesn’t cop the blame for that imo. I maybe would have brought Allan on but if not match fit then I can see why Hallberg was chosen.

There’s more but honestly I don’t see the point when people are so opposed to what I say, just a waste of everyone’s time especially when your description of yesterday is so at odds with my take on it.

👍🏼

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

I thought we had loads of the ball and done nothing with it. We created next to nothing imo and that to me isn’t really something to be positive about.

[MWHIBBIES]

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We finished bottom six last season, hardly unthinkable that we will again next season, do you really think we are so much better than the likes of St Johnstone? Or the team who finished 3rd last year?

We finished bottom six but we were not bottom six when the league was called. We were chasing 5th.

Yes, even last season we were better than Motherwell, we just had an awful start with Hecky. Had Ross been in all season we'd have finished 3rd or 4th then too. Motherwell had a good 4/5 months. They were generally pish under Robinson otherwise. See us easily beating them 3-1 in one of Ross' first games.

We are a better side than many on here give credit for. Yes, we aren't some finished article and we've had some poor results but we are on course for European qualification, which would be massive. Folk need to get behind the side and support them.

[andudare2]

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We finished bottom six last season, hardly unthinkable that we will again next season, do you really think we are so much better than the likes of St Johnstone? Or the team who finished 3rd last year?

was that not through the points per game system that decided League placings,sure we were above St.Johnstone when this happened and they benefited as they had a game in hand.

[gaz1875]

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Watching MOTD just now and the cohesion and togetherness of nearly all the midfielders makes Hibs midfield look like a pub team. Yesterday there was huge distances between our midfield 3 and the same huge distances between them and the 2 strikers. The teams I'm watching right now have their midfield working as a unit whether with or without the ball, never more than10 yards away from each other, working as a pack to get the ball back or working closely passing and moving(something we hardly ever do). I'd love to see what we do in training and on the tactics side of things because to me there is glaring errors in the way we approach games and the way we play games, no togetherness, zero movement, zero composure and zero guile.

Couldn't agree more. Gogic who is my player of the season so far is all over the pitch winning the ball, harrying opposition players defending and running forward with the ball. Despite what others think his distribution is also very good especially with the amount of touches he has during a game. Irvine I think is playing to wide on the right, he can do the same as Gogic but also as we've seen can pick a pass. To me he should be more central hopefully getting more of the ball. With those two in the middle we should be dominating the central midfield. We don't because as you rightly point out they are both two far apart. It's then a toss up for he third mid either Newell, Hallberg. Magennis, Murphy or Allan. three of them have struggled with injury, one has just came back from injury and one never seems to last a full game.

[1620]

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Couldn't agree more. Gogic who is my player of the season so far is all over the pitch winning the ball, harrying opposition players defending and running forward with the ball. Despite what others think his distribution is also very good especially with the amount of touches he has during a game. Irvine I think is playing to wide on the right, he can do the same as Gogic but also as we've seen can pick a pass. To me he should be more central hopefully getting more of the ball. With those two in the middle we should be dominating the central midfield. We don't because as you rightly point out they are both two far apart. It's then a toss up for he third mid either Newell, Hallberg. Magennis, Murphy or Allan. three of them have struggled with injury, one has just came back from injury and one never seems to last a full game.

I also agree that our midfield don’t operate as a unit. The other thing they don’t do is play the ball forward to a front man and then keep running beyond them to take a return pass in the opponents box and creating scoring opportunities. The top teams have players like Aribo, Arfield, Kent and Turnbull, Rogic, McGregor who all do that and it makes such a difference to creating scoring chances.

[MrRobot]

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13 losses that season for Mowbray. 9 so far for Ross. 18 wins for Mowbray. 15 so far for Ross. Mowbray had +7 goal difference. Ross has +12.

We played good football under Mowbray that was enjoyable and exciting to watch whereas it’s brutal to watch under Ross.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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We finished bottom six but we were not bottom six when the league was called. We were chasing 5th.

Yes, even last season we were better than Motherwell, we just had an awful start with Hecky. Had Ross been in all season we'd have finished 3rd or 4th then too. Motherwell had a good 4/5 months. They were generally pish under Robinson otherwise. See us easily beating them 3-1 in one of Ross' first games.

We are a better side than many on here give credit for. Yes, we aren't some finished article and we've had some poor results but we are on course for European qualification, which would be massive. Folk need to get behind the side and support them.

Motherwell were generally pish (and finished third), we've been same this season (and might also finish third), Aberdeen have barely scored a goal this year & are still in strong contention for 3rd, whoever stumbles over the line isn't going to have much to shout about. Sorry but I've seen some decent Hibs teams finish third or even fourth & its felt like an achievement & there's been memorable moments & games, there's none of that this season (yes, partly because no crowds). We've been more consistent than others, so better over the season, hence the league position - but in any game look to be of much the same standard as at least half of a very poor league, can we be confident of the same level of consistency next season?

[hhibs]

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Probably because you're shot down in flames by the Marciano defenders on here. I've asked the question twice now, apart from a few great saves a season why is he rated so highly?
Plenty whataboutery as in would you rather have A or B and but of course that's not the question. For me he is our most over rated player and here I feel I must explain I dont think he's crap. I like to use English as it is meant to be used, so by over rated I mean possibly our highest rated player by the majority of people on here. I've never agreed with that.

Me also,terrible distribution ,puts the team under immediate pressure.

[gaz1875]

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I also agree that our midfield don’t operate as a unit. The other thing they don’t do is play the ball forward to a front man and then keep running beyond them to take a return pass in the opponents box and creating scoring opportunities. The top teams have players like Aribo, Arfield, Kent and Turnbull, Rogic, McGregor who all do that and it makes such a difference to creating scoring chances.

I actually looked for that during the game, and you are right with the exception of Doig, Gogic and Cadden, the rest of the team pass and stand still.