When did it change?

[blackpoolhibs]

When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?

[Magpie]

The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

[blackpoolhibs]

I would add that managers were not afforded the same respect, they were often spoken about disparagingly.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

That’s it.

[jeffers]

I don’t remember it happening when I was a boy either, but certainly by the 80s it was happening. Up at Tannadice one day and Joe Tortolano’s name was read out to a chorus of boos from a sizeable number of the Hibs support (he’d had a shocker in midweek after coming on as a sub at Ibrox when we were 1-0 up.)

And without getting all misty eyed about how great things were when I was a boy, society in general isn’t as pleasant now as it was then.

I agree that social media hasn’t helped in that respect where everyone has a voice. I would temper that slightly though by saying on here I might post and criticise Doidge for example, at an actual game though I keep my frustrations to myself and don’t abuse players.

[superfurryhibby]

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The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

As a youngster I remember Benny Brazil getting dogs abuse at a level Hibs fans would never accept now. Prior to that Tony Higgins, Ally McLeod and Ally Scott all took their share of vitriol ( McLeod was talented, but he was hardly a chaser of lost causes).

The social media just gives us more of a window into the thoughts of others, I feel that players of yesteryear got it tight several notches above today’s players, particularly inside the ground.

[hibsbollah]

It’s definitely social media. And also probably also down to the rise of football manager and fifa/pes to a lesser extent, which has made everyone think building a winning team of players is easy to do

[Hiber-nation]

Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

[CentreLine]

I think there were a combination of things. Post Tornadoes we came out of generations of seeing good, entertaining and successful football, where fans generally appreciated the talent (not necessarily loved) on both sides. Football was an entertainment.
To be honest, we then entered a period where football generally had become a tactical kicking game. Not necessarily kicking the ball. It was crap by comparison
Added to that the introduction of segregation created a much more tribal attitude where we wanted our players to personify those passions on the park and the opposition became “the enemy”. If we saw weakness in our own side then that player wasn’t delivering the required tribal fight and so wasn’t good enough.
Add social media in to the mix and we have the perfect storm. The entertainment people “enjoy” from football is no longer on the park, it goes way beyond that and for some that included the need for constant criticism on all platforms plus a hatred of anyone associated with the opposition.

[lapsedhibee]

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Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

Neil Martin, banging in goals for us left right and centre at the time, missing one relatively easy chance in a game would produce howls of outrage, "useless *******", etc. Could never understand that.

[jacomo]

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The internet and social media possibly having a big impact?

Massively. I think we will look back on this era and be amazed that such a large social experiment happened with so little constraint.

However, I’ve been attending football for 30+ years (so pre mass internet) and fans have always hurled abuse at players.

One thing that has changed - it used to be considered acceptable to shout anything you liked at opposition players if it put them off their game.

[neil7908]

It's definitely worse now but let's not kid ourselves that players weren't given dogs abuse in the past.

Social media and not being at games has just meant the criticism is now more intense and stretched out. Before folk would go to the game, vent if it was a bad performance or at their least favourite player, have a moan on the way home or in the pub and be done with it.

Now it's 24/7 and no one has going to an actual match as an outlet for the joys or anger football gives us.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Neil Martin, banging in goals for us left right and centre at the time, missing one relatively easy chance in a game would produce howls of outrage, "useless *******", etc. Could never understand that.

I dont remember that, not saying it never happened, but i cant remember howls of outrage then.

[Carheenlea]

I think fans have always been critical of certain players and I can’t remember a time when there wasn’t one player in particular who was the popular target of choice.
There was little in the way of the bile and aggressiveness of the criticism we see now though, and terms like “wage thief” are a modern addition. Social media surrounding football encourages people to stand out, and extremities in ultra positivism and negativity assist with that. I often feel that many don’t genuinely believe the stances they take and it’s a case of being on one side of an argument or another as if mild support or criticism of players isn’t permitted.

[Just Alf]

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Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

Yup, agreed... mind you, we'd also defend them 1 million percent at school!

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[Peevemor]

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As a youngster I remember Benny Brazil getting dogs abuse at a level Hibs fans would never accept now. Prior to that Tony Higgins, Ally McLeod and Ally Scott all took their share of vitriol ( McLeod was talented, but he was hardly a chaser of lost causes).

Even the likes of Arthur Duncan & Erich Schaedler got abuse from the terracing toward the end of their careers and some of it was person-to-person given there would often only be around 4k rattling around inside Easter Road.

I remember being on the terracing for one such match and play was stopped for an injury or something. Arthur wasn't far from the East terracing touchline and a guy not far from me shouted "Duncan!..." - Arthur automatically looked up and the guy continued "F*** off!" I remember as a 14/15 year old feeling sorry for Arthur as he actually winced. There are other very similar examples I remember with the likes of Erich, Ralph C & Ally McLeod - all good players and great servants to the club..

The social media just gives us more of a window into the thoughts of others, I feel that players of yesteryear got it tight several notches above today’s players, particularly inside the ground.

Social media can be pretty brutal though, with bams getting a platform and things becoming polarised very quickly.

[Hillsidehibby]

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Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

Absolutely about Pat Stanton. Even the great man himself was being called a lazy barsteward.
No one is or ever has been immune!

[Wakeyhibee]

Think it's always happened, it's just amplified by social media. I remember as a kid in the 70s there was plenty of outraged supporters.

I was too young for the pub then but maybe Saturday was Saturday, after the pub it was back to work and home life.

Its 24/7 with social media if you want it to be. You also tended to chat within your group when I did go to the pub. There 1000s on these platforms.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Absolutely about Pat Stanton. Even the great man himself was being called a lazy barsteward.
No one is or ever has been immune!

Yeah, I definitely remember that, particularly towards the end of his time here.

Cormack was another who came in for a lot of stick.

The abuse hasn't changed IMO, we're just more aware of it 24/7.

[Bradford]

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Its always been there. I remember Jim Blair getting absolute dogs abuse back in 1970. Then the likes of Willie McEwan, John Hazel and Jim Black. Even Pat Stanton was getting slaughtered from the terraces towards the end of his Hibs career.

As I approach 70 my memory is not all it one was but I have a recollection re Jim Blair. It was not long after he came from St Mirren and he was a substitute for an away game against Airdrie at their wonderful old Broomfield ground. He came on in the second half when we were winning comfortably. The ball was passed to him which he completely mis-controlled and sent it to one of their players. Someone on the terracing behind us shouted "Blair you'r sh@ite"
and everyone laughed. Nobody realised how prophetic that comment would turn out to be.

[BILLYHIBS]

Ally Scott

[H18S NX]

I remember getting a scud on the heid from ma auld man for shouting "you're and auld horse" at Willie Toner once,I was right he didnae play that much after that,still got kept in till school.

[Lago]

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When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?

I to am of that era & agree with you, social media I'm afraid allowed anonymous keyboard warriors freedom to vilify players at will. In the old days it would be a moan over a beer in the pub with your mates & then forgotten about as you looked forward to the next game. Happy days.

[Clarence]

I think we probably have young players more of a chance before the golden generation. We expect every player that comes through to be a deek, goc, broonie or KT and when they don’t live up to that in their first few games they get pelters. In the nineties, I think folk were more supportive of ordinary players like Chris Jackson and Graeme Love.

[JimBHibees]

Used to go to the enclosure at the famous five end and there were certainly occasions when the abuse was ridiculous usually from individual fans and would usually end up with other fans giving the abuser some back. Can remember on one occasion Gordon Rae charging over and wanting to sort someone out after a game.

[JimBHibees]

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Ally Scott

Appalling player

[The Modfather]

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When i was a boy (i know) nobody really criticised the players like we do today. 99% of the fans stuck up for every player, all the time.

I remember at school sticking up for players we had, who had played badly or given away a soft goal when discussing games with supporters of Hearts and the bigots, it just seemed what you did then?

I grew up watching Stein Marinello Cormack Stanton and the likes, then the Tornadoes.

Even though i knew we had a few dodgy players, it seemed then that we stood up for them rather than slaughter them like happens now.

I don't remember any vitriol against players in my early days, it really was the opposite.

No doubt someone will correct me, but as times have changed, i really do think things are much worse and cant see it getting better.

When did it happen, and what has caused it?

I’m not sure it’s all that different, certainly at games in person.

Social media and the internet can be a bit of an echo chamber and amplify the worst aspects. However I’m not sure it’s reflective of the real world and a lot of what is said is either trolling or posting to an online persona they’ve created. I suspect the majority of what is said and how it’s said online wouldn’t be replicated by the same people in the real world. Folk seem to have to have an opinion on everything these days and feel obligated to air that opinion, which then leads to a circular arguments where the actual point being debated long since becomes irrelevant and it becomes a battle of oneupmanship rather than any meaningful debate.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Appalling player

I think most people who had the misfortune to witness his play, would have exactly that opinion.

I remember folk shacking their head whenever he tried something that would never come off, and the receding long hair never really took off either.

I accept there would be the odd shout, but it was nothing like todays bile, from people who couldn't do their job to anywhere near their bad ability too.

And before anyone has a pop at that, i'm as guilty as anyone for writing on here how such a player is pish.

[Dalianwanda]

Theres the culture of instant gratification, people wanting the best right now & not prepared to wait for it. As already mentioned football manager, fifa as well as the fact that more parent are coaching kids these days. Nothing wrong with having an opinion but so many see themselves as experts when they only know half the story. Social media and how easy it is to have your voice heard and to either ignore or react if someone has a different viewpoint (when before we were only able to do this through real life chats). The black or white, left or right, amazing or *****, right or wrong mindset so many have fuelled by the media and used by activists & politicians & anyone else who wants to you join their gang.

I dont think it has changed that much at games. There used to be plenty of abuse at games in 70's/80's but anyone out of order would be shouted down. Perhaps its changed a wee bit depending on whos shouting and how coked up they look ;-)

[Keith_M]

I remember being at a game at ER in the early 80s and standing (as per usual) on the main terracing, just below the TV gantry.

The players were warming up before the game and we were chanting the players' names in turn singing 'give us a wave'

It went...



"Ally, Ally, give us a wave" --- Ally Mcleod waves --- crowd cheers

"Gordon, Gordon, give us a wave " --- Gordon Rae waves --- crowd cheers.

etc,


Then one young guy starts a chant "Benny, Benny, give us a wave" (Benny Brazil)

The rest of the crowd just turn round and look at him in disgust... after which he slinks away to the Pie Stand