Maggenis

[MWHIBBIES]

Its weird to be on the other side of this for once.

[jeffers]

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You’ve brought it up numerous times. Others have brought it up numerous times. If he’s recovered from it then it’s not really relevant this far down the line.

I’m not quite sure how I’ve failed to acknowledge he’s been out again seeing as I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion. I’ve even said he’ll be disappointed in how his time at Hibs has went, be that injuries or performance. Seems like an acknowledgement to me.

His performances have also been disappointing. Read the match threads, player ratings etc from the games he’s played. Magennis will be disappointed in how he’s performed when he’s got on the pitch, of that I’ve no doubt, especially if he’s as good as people claim he is. I’d actually be slightly concerned if he thought his performances have been good enough.

Can’t really argue with any of that, the main point I’ve taken from your posts is that he has been disappointing for us. I don’t see how anyone can really argue with that. I was pleased when he came in, but for various reasons this season has been a washout for him. Still hopeful he will go on to be a very good signing for us, but if I’m honest that’s based more from the reputation from his time at St Mirren rather than anything he has shown in a Hibs jersey to date.

[hibbysam]

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You’ve brought it up numerous times. Others have brought it up numerous times. If he’s recovered from it then it’s not really relevant this far down the line.

I’m not quite sure how I’ve failed to acknowledge he’s been out again seeing as I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion. I’ve even said he’ll be disappointed in how his time at Hibs has went, be that injuries or performance. Seems like an acknowledgement to me.

His performances have also been disappointing. Read the match threads, player ratings etc from the games he’s played. Magennis will be disappointed in how he’s performed when he’s got on the pitch, of that I’ve no doubt, especially if he’s as good as people claim he is. I’d actually be slightly concerned if he thought his performances have been good enough but thankfully I doubt that’s the case.

But you plainly refuse to acknowledge that due to lack of sustained minutes on the pitch he isn’t up to speed therefore of course his performances will be lacking. His sharpness won’t be there. Over three separate spells he has amassed less than 5 full games. So in essence he comes back from injury, plays a game and a half, gets injured, plays a game and a half, gets injured, plays a game and a half, gets Covid. In that game and a half it would be unjust to expect him to put performances in after his lay offs. Your touch, your vision, your confidence doesn’t just appear. Especially when he never played with us prior to his injuries, therefore he will have very little chemistry on the pitch with his team mates, that takes time to build that understanding. Everything comes back to his injuries and that’s purely unlucky. Hardly worth him being called a waste of money over.

[calumhibee1]

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But you plainly refuse to acknowledge that due to lack of sustained minutes on the pitch he isn’t up to speed therefore of course his performances will be lacking. His sharpness won’t be there. Over three separate spells he has amassed less than 5 full games. So in essence he comes back from injury, plays a game and a half, gets injured, plays a game and a half, gets injured, plays a game and a half, gets Covid. In that game and a half it would be unjust to expect him to put performances in after his lay offs. Your touch, your vision, your confidence doesn’t just appear. Especially when he never played with us prior to his injuries, therefore he will have very little chemistry on the pitch with his team mates, that takes time to build that understanding. Everything comes back to his injuries and that’s purely unlucky. Hardly worth him being called a waste of money over.

When on earth have I ever called him a waste of money

Do you believe Magennis will be happy with his performances when he’s been on the pitch?

[ahibby]

When will we see him on the bench? Is he back training?

[hibbysam]

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When on earth have I ever called him a waste of money

Do you believe Magennis will be happy with his performances when he’s been on the pitch?

Who said you called him it? He was called it on this thread. No he won’t be, again, that’s been acknowledged, the reasons for his ‘poor performances’ are clear for all to see. Hence why you look at his pedigree and his attitude when looking to the future rather than his stop start nature for us.

[hibbysam]

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When will we see him on the bench? Is he back training?

Ross said he would need scans etc over the weekend due to him having Covid symptoms, not just testing positive. Would expect all going well he’d be back in training this week.

[calumhibee1]

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Who said you called him it? He was called it on this thread. No he won’t be, again, that’s been acknowledged, the reasons for his ‘poor performances’ are clear for all to see. Hence why you look at his pedigree and his attitude when looking to the future rather than his stop start nature for us.

So you’ve spent numerous pages arguing with me because someone else has called him a waste of money and you agree that his injuries and performances have been disappointing which is all I’ve really said throughout the whole thread.

I’m out.

[hibbysam]

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So you’ve spent numerous pages arguing with me because someone else has called him a waste of money and you agree that his injuries and performances have been disappointing which is all I’ve really said throughout the whole thread.

I’m out.

No, that was acknowledged a long time ago, his performances have been poor due to his injuries and failure to get fully up to speed before getting injured again. Your insistence that he should hit the ground running as his knee injury had gone 5 months ago is what carried it on. You said you don’t hold out hope for him due to his performances with us 😂

[basehibby]

Magennis has showed glimpses of the classy player he can be but it's fair to say I've not seen him really impose himself on any games so far.

Early days though - his chances to get on the pitch have been pretty slim - and that's partly been down to picking up niggling injuries and partly due to the fact he's competing with several other midfielders - most with much more game time under their belts this season - for a place in a team that has been winning much of the time. I'm pretty sure he'll turn out to be a very good signing but we may have to wait to next season to see the best of him.

Patience required.

[Unseen work]

14 appearances with 4 of them being starts over 6 months really isn’t much at all. Especially when you consider the sub appearances will be 10-15 minutes here and there.

The bounce games aren’t so much for getting him fit but for him to feel sharp and comfortable on the ball in a game.

Training is fine, you always have an out all and the games tend to be smaller so you can look a lot better. But sometimes I’m a game you’ll receive the ball in the middle of the pitch, very little options and have the opposition pressing you - this is where you need the minutes under your belt to get out of that situation.

Nothing can replicate a game.

He’s had quite a few injuries, between serious, niggles and Covid. His confidence will be completely shot and he won’t have much faith in his body holding up.

Give it time.

[J-C]

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Once you’ve made 14 appearances upon your return from a serious knee injury, starting 4 of them including a cup semi final, a couple bounce games against 17 year olds and guys who aren’t starting at their clubs looking to keep ticking over whilst everyone is playing at 50% really isn’t going to do much for you in terms of coming back from that injury.

I would say that missing the full pre season prep wasn't perfect for Magennis and he's been behind most of the season, we seen exactly the same last season when Stevenson was rushed back too early when the team and young Mackie had that mare of a game against Rangers. Hecky pumped Mackie out to Dundee and brought Stevenson back weeks too early, he never fully recovered and it was probably his worst season he's had for us.

We have 3 players who have come back from serious knee injuries, Wright and Murphy the other 2, Wright had the pre season but looks a player shot of confidence and basically not good enough, Murphy came after having a decent loan but apart from the odd flash has been disappointing. Magennis was St Mirren captain and was the main man in their team, we're hoping he can be like McGinn was and grow to his level, I'm sure he'll be as disappointed with his start as the fans have been.

[Brightside]

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I'm with you. Far too much is still said these days about how much players need to play in matches to get back to "match fitness". That is stone age talk which is considerably less applicable to this generation of players compared to previous generations. The progress and professionalism in the fitness and sports science fields over the last 20-30 years are enormous. With all the monitors and analysis used these days, it should be expected that decent fitness and technical coaches can replicate in training the nature and effort levels that each individual player will be expected to experience and exert in a match situation, not just in terms of overall fitness/stamina/speed but also in terms of their speed of play and thought when under pressure. Physically, they should be able to hit the ground running when they are deemed ready to return to play. What is harder to get right after a prolonged absence is getting them prepared psychologically for a match situation, dealing with pre-match nerves etc. But with no crowds to get on your back and empty stadia making it easy to hear your team-mates or coach from the sidelines, currently there are minimal excuses in this area too.

Thats incorrect - march sharpness only comes from playing matches.

[Brightside]

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These days I do not accept that benefits arising from bounce games cannot be replicated in training. It is nothing to do with "fitness" as indeed you have admitted with your Scott Allan example. It is about competitive match readiness in terms of performing under pressure when it really means something - like the difference between the practice putting green and the 4 foot putt on the last to win the Saturday medal. I agree you need some properly competitive minutes to get that side of your readiness back. But nowhere near as much as some folk are suggesting, as was the case 20+ years ago.

Thats just wrong.

[calumhibee1]

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No, that was acknowledged a long time ago, his performances have been poor due to his injuries and failure to get fully up to speed before getting injured again. Your insistence that he should hit the ground running as his knee injury had gone 5 months ago is what carried it on. You said you don’t hold out hope for him due to his performances with us 😂

I don’t hold out hope for him?

The second post on this thread is from me and says:

“Hopefully a good pre season and he can offer something next season“

That’s literally the definition of holding out hope for him.

Give it up. You’ve got yourself tangled up over and over again throughout this thread looking for an argument.

[Kato]

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Thats incorrect - march sharpness only comes from playing matches.

That's the term I would have thought more appropriate, "sharpness" rather than "fitness".

[JimBHibees]

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I’ve played football to East of Scotland level before the Lowland League came in, so probably a higher level than most on here.

Nobody has ever suggested he shouldn’t be getting injured. He should however be showing more than he has been - he’s had 14 appearances to show something - and he has fully recovered from his knee injury. I’d bet good money that Kyle Magennis wouldn’t go around telling people he’s still recovering from his knee injury now and I’d bet good money he would admit his start at Hibs has been disappointing.

If you have played at that level you will know significant injuries can be difficult to return from. I think he has done ok in some games but injuries and now assuming Covid will not help him.

[hibbysam]

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I don’t hold out hope for him?

The second post on this thread is from me and says:

“Hopefully a good pre season and he can offer something next season“

That’s literally the definition of holding out hope for him.

Give it up. You’ve got yourself tangled up over and over again throughout this thread looking for an argument.

‘ I don’t hold out the same amount of hope that others have for him based on what we’ve seen for Hibs.’

Your words, not mine. Who’s getting tangled again? Seems like you just like contradicting yourself then.

[calumhibee1]

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‘ I don’t hold out the same amount of hope that others have for him based on what we’ve seen for Hibs.’

Your words, not mine. Who’s getting tangled again? Seems like you just like contradicting yourself then.

So not that I don’t hold out hope for him, just that I don’t hold out as much hope as others. Keeping in mind some folk on this thread have said he’ll be outstanding I don’t think that’s a massively disparaging comment. A very different thing from what you’ve claimed I’ve said where you’ve claimed I don’t hold out hope for him at all, but as you’re looking for an argument it would be much more suitable to make things up.

Cheerio.

[calumhibee1]

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If you have played at that level you will know significant injuries can be difficult to return from. I think he has done ok in some games but injuries and now assuming Covid will not help him.

Not something I’d argue with Jim. But regardless of that, i would fully expect that he’d be disappointed himself with his contribution on the pitch so far and that he’ll have expected himself to have come back and performed better than he has. I don’t think anyone would disagree he’ll be disappointed with the injuries.

That to me adds up to a disappointment start to his Hibs career for all parties - the player, the club and the fans.

[Andy74]

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Not something I’d argue with Jim. But regardless of that, i would fully expect that he’d be disappointed himself with his contribution on the pitch so far and I’m fairly certain he’ll be disappointed with the injuries.

That to me adds up to a disappointment start to his Hibs career for all parties - the player, the club and the fans.

3 pages or so later this is what everyone has been saying - except you are not prepared to make allowances for the fact he was off the back of a serious injury or that the follow up niggles regularly happen to players in that position. In fact, you are adding those things on to the disappointment..

It is just a situation where no real blame can be attached. We have him on a long contract and we will expect much more from him when he gets fully fit again. Don't think much more than that has really needed to be said.

[calumhibee1]

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3 pages or so later this is what everyone has been saying - except you are not prepared to make allowances for the fact he was off the back of a serious injury or that the follow up niggles regularly happen to players in that position. In fact, you are adding those things on to the disappointment..

It is just a situation where no real blame can be attached. We have him on a long contract and we will expect much more from him when he gets fully fit again. Don't think much more than that has really needed to be said.

No, it’s really not.

You’ve been saying I said he wasn’t good enough, never has been and never will be.

Sam has been claiming I’ve been saying I hold out no hope for him whatsoever and that he was to completely hit the ground running. Again, things I’ve never once said.

I’m adding them on to the disappointment because he’ll be disappointed by them as will the club. I’d suggest the club and Kyle will be disappointed that he hasn’t played better when he has been on the pitch regardless of previous injuries.

If you don’t believe that and you think they’ll be happy enough with either aspect, whether it’s injuries or performances then crack on.

[hibbysam]

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So not that I don’t hold out hope for him, just that I don’t hold out as much hope as others. A very different thing from what you’ve claimed I’ve said where you’ve claimed I don’t hold out hope for him at all, but as you’re looking for an argument it would be much more suitable to make things up.

Cheerio.

Not looking for any argument, just pointing out the clear discrepancies in arguments, like the one where he’s been back from injury for 5 months, when in reality he’s been injured for two full months in that time and missed a number of weeks through Covid. You could have left it at the fact he has missed the majority of the season through injury thus far and will be better when fully fit and after a full pre season, but your insistence that he’s rarely played due to factors of his own doing rather than bad luck through injury and the other members of the team performing well says it’s you looking for and getting arguments, no one else.

[hibbysam]

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No, it’s really not.

You’ve been saying I said he wasn’t good enough, never has been and never will be.

Sam has been claiming I’ve been saying I hold out no hope for him whatsoever and that he was to completely hit the ground running. Again, things I’ve never once said.

I’m adding them on to the disappointment because he’ll be disappointed by them as will the club. I’d suggest the club and Kyle will be disappointed that he hasn’t played better when he has been on the pitch regardless of previous injuries.

If you don’t believe that and you think they’ll be happy enough with either aspect, whether it’s injuries or performances then crack on.

They’ll be understanding of the reasons, of that I’m 100% sure. If they weren’t they wouldn’t keep putting him back in for minutes when he’s fit. Wouldn’t see a thread like this for Scott Allan and shouldn’t see one for Kyle Magennis either, utterly pointless.

[calumhibee1]

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Not looking for any argument, just pointing out the clear discrepancies in arguments, like the one where he’s been back from injury for 5 months, when in reality he’s been injured for two full months in that time and missed a number of weeks through Covid. You could have left it at the fact he has missed the majority of the season through injury thus far and will be better when fully fit and after a full pre season, but your insistence that he’s rarely played due to factors of his own doing rather than bad luck through injury and the other members of the team performing well says it’s you looking for and getting arguments, no one else.

You’re making yourself dizzy Sam.

That’s enough now.

I could have left it by posting your thoughts rather than my own. That’s a cracker.

[ian cruise]

I'm going to stick my neck out at say he's going to be next season's Newell and we'll be raving about him and the impact he's having on the team.

Please feel free to bookmark this and call me out if he turns out to be more of a Vela than a Newell.

[calumhibee1]

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I'm going to stick my neck out at say he's going to be next season's Newell and we'll be raving about him and the impact he's having on the team.

Please feel free to bookmark this and call me out if he turns out to be more of a Vela than a Newell.

Fingers crossed.

[Diclonius]

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I'm going to stick my neck out at say he's going to be next season's Newell and we'll be raving about him and the impact he's having on the team.

Please feel free to bookmark this and call me out if he turns out to be more of a Vela than a Newell.

I have really high hopes for him too. Here's hoping he proves us right.

[hibbysam]

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You’re making yourself dizzy Sam.

That’s enough now.

I could have left it by posting what you want me to post. That’s a cracker.

It’s exactly what you posted in your first post, you could’ve left it at that. It’s you that’s adamant it’s purely performance related on the pitch and nothing to do with the previous injuries when he steps on. He wouldn’t play if he wasn’t fully up to speed according to you.

Any player that misses pre season and the majority of a season through injury is going to struggle, it really is that simple. To use this season as a reason to doubt that he will come good in the future rather than anything he’s done prior to that is blinkered to say the least.

[ancient hibee]

For me the start of next season is most important.If Murphy,Wright and Magennis don't start to show what they're made of and influence games then it'll ask big questions on our signing policy .