Maggenis

[calumhibee1]

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No, its quite clear he was never fully up to speed. Scott Allan has made 4 appearances since returning, do you expect him to be fit as well? Its about minutes played and Kyle has sadly struggled to get many.

Him getting injured is no different from Scott Allan. Its unlucky and could happen to anyone. He deserves our support, not being labed a disappointment. Just my opinion, though.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. He’s been up to speed enough that Ross thought he has been ready to start 4 different games now, 2 of them in the league and 1 of them a cup semi final so certainly not games that were being treated as bounce games. He was also fit enough after his serious injury to play games in quick succession 2, 5 and 8 days after signing and starting one of them.

I’m sure he’ll not get massively upset at people saying his time at Hibs has been disappointing. As I said earlier, I would very much doubt he wouldn’t admit that himself. People don’t need to get so sensitive about it on his behalf and start using an injury he returned from 5 months ago as an excuse for it.

[Brightside]

He will be an outstanding player for us in due course.

[JimBHibees]

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He will be an outstanding player for us in due course.

Yep pretty clear why he hasnt been seen at his best thus far.

[Greenbeard]

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We’ll have to agree to disagree. He’s been up to speed enough that Ross thought he has been ready to start 4 different games now, 2 of them in the league and 1 of them a cup semi final so certainly not games that were being treated as bounce games. He was also fit enough after his serious injury to play games in quick succession 2, 5 and 8 days after signing and starting one of them.

I’m sure he’ll not get massively upset at people saying his time at Hibs has been disappointing. As I said earlier, I would very much doubt he wouldn’t admit that himself. People don’t need to get so sensitive about it on his behalf and start using an injury he returned from 5 months ago as an excuse for it.

I'm with you. Far too much is still said these days about how much players need to play in matches to get back to "match fitness". That is stone age talk which is considerably less applicable to this generation of players compared to previous generations. The progress and professionalism in the fitness and sports science fields over the last 20-30 years are enormous. With all the monitors and analysis used these days, it should be expected that decent fitness and technical coaches can replicate in training the nature and effort levels that each individual player will be expected to experience and exert in a match situation, not just in terms of overall fitness/stamina/speed but also in terms of their speed of play and thought when under pressure. Physically, they should be able to hit the ground running when they are deemed ready to return to play. What is harder to get right after a prolonged absence is getting them prepared psychologically for a match situation, dealing with pre-match nerves etc. But with no crowds to get on your back and empty stadia making it easy to hear your team-mates or coach from the sidelines, currently there are minimal excuses in this area too.

[hibbysam]

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I'm with you. Far too much is still said these days about how much players need to play in matches to get back to "match fitness". That is stone age talk which is considerably less applicable to this generation of players compared to previous generations. The progress and professionalism in the fitness and sports science fields over the last 20-30 years are enormous. With all the monitors and analysis used these days, it should be expected that decent fitness and technical coaches can replicate in training the nature and effort levels that each individual player will be expected to experience and exert in a match situation, not just in terms of overall fitness/stamina/speed but also in terms of their speed of play and thought when under pressure. Physically, they should be able to hit the ground running when they are deemed ready to return to play. What is harder to get right after a prolonged absence is getting them prepared psychologically for a match situation, dealing with pre-match nerves etc. But with no crowds to get on your back and empty stadia making it easy to hear your team-mates or coach from the sidelines, currently there are minimal excuses in this area too.

Ask any sports science department or manager and they’ll tell you that you can’t fully replicate game like situations and intensity in training. No matter how hard you try it just doesn’t work like that, hence why managers need bounce games to get players up to speed (listen to jack Ross’ disappointment about not getting games for Scott Allan to aid his recovery).

[Andy74]

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We’ll have to agree to disagree. He’s been up to speed enough that Ross thought he has been ready to start 4 different games now, 2 of them in the league and 1 of them a cup semi final so certainly not games that were being treated as bounce games. He was also fit enough after his serious injury to play games in quick succession 2, 5 and 8 days after signing and starting one of them.

I’m sure he’ll not get massively upset at people saying his time at Hibs has been disappointing. As I said earlier, I would very much doubt he wouldn’t admit that himself. People don’t need to get so sensitive about it on his behalf and start using an injury he returned from 5 months ago as an excuse for it.

Of course he has been disappointing. Everyone is agreeing with that.

Most reasonably minded people though can see there are reasons for that though, that’s all. Of course his fitness issue is an excuse and a good one at that.

[calumhibee1]

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Of course he has been disappointing. Everyone is agreeing with that.

Most reasonably minded people though can see there are reasons for that though, that’s all. Of course his fitness issue is an excuse and a good one at that.

His general fitness issue is an excuse to some degree. His injury from 5 months ago? Not so much. The idea that he gets say a thigh injury now and he’s “starting again” as was suggested on his recovery from his serious knee injury is nonsense.

Jack Ross has felt he’s been fit enough to play 3 games in 8 days or so when he signed. He felt he was fit enough to start in a cup semi final. He’s felt he’s fit enough to start league games. That serious injury has been and gone. He needs to start performing. Coming back from a slight niggle a couple of times isn’t an excuse for the fact he’s offered nothing imo and an injury that he’s long since recovered from isn’t either.

[hibbysam]

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His general fitness issue is an excuse to some degree. His injury from 5 months ago? Not so much. The idea that he gets say a thigh injury now and he’s “starting again” as was suggested on his recovery from his serious knee injury is nonsense.

Jack Ross has felt he’s been fit enough to play 3 games in 8 days or so when he signed. He felt he was fit enough to start in a cup semi final. He’s felt he’s fit enough to start league games. That serious injury has been and gone. He needs to start performing. Coming back from a slight niggle a couple of times isn’t an excuse for the fact he’s offered nothing imo and an injury that he’s long since recovered from isn’t either.

The reason for his ‘slight niggles’ (full month of football missing twice, pulled muscles), were his big injury though. It’s common, Murphy was exactly the same. When you’ve been out the game for 8 months with big injuries then you end up with muscle injuries.

[HendoDelivered]

The amount of folk writing him off already 😂

[jacomo]

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The amount of folk writing him off already 😂

I never knew there were so many disappointed sports scientists and doctors on Hibs.net!

[Andy74]

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His general fitness issue is an excuse to some degree. His injury from 5 months ago? Not so much. The idea that he gets say a thigh injury now and he’s “starting again” as was suggested on his recovery from his serious knee injury is nonsense.

Jack Ross has felt he’s been fit enough to play 3 games in 8 days or so when he signed. He felt he was fit enough to start in a cup semi final. He’s felt he’s fit enough to start league games. That serious injury has been and gone. He needs to start performing. Coming back from a slight niggle a couple of times isn’t an excuse for the fact he’s offered nothing imo and an injury that he’s long since recovered from isn’t either.

Okay, you are a lost cause on this one - coming back from a serious injury having played virtually no football for months end and then picking up, which is common with these things, some other niggles, followed by Covid.

None of that is a factor and I suppose then he's just rubbish always has been and this is an indication of how he will play for the next 4 years. That's your argument is it?

[SChibs]

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I'm with you. Far too much is still said these days about how much players need to play in matches to get back to "match fitness". That is stone age talk which is considerably less applicable to this generation of players compared to previous generations. The progress and professionalism in the fitness and sports science fields over the last 20-30 years are enormous. With all the monitors and analysis used these days, it should be expected that decent fitness and technical coaches can replicate in training the nature and effort levels that each individual player will be expected to experience and exert in a match situation, not just in terms of overall fitness/stamina/speed but also in terms of their speed of play and thought when under pressure. Physically, they should be able to hit the ground running when they are deemed ready to return to play. What is harder to get right after a prolonged absence is getting them prepared psychologically for a match situation, dealing with pre-match nerves etc. But with no crowds to get on your back and empty stadia making it easy to hear your team-mates or coach from the sidelines, currently there are minimal excuses in this area too.

Nonsense. Look at the money English Premier League clubs have. They can employ the best coaches with state of the art facilities and the best medical treatment money can buy in this country. Yet their players can't just hit the ground running and need to build up their minutes to get match fitness.

Scott Allan said in his recent interview he's the fittest he's ever felt but he's not match fit because he hasn't been able to play any bounce games.

[Hibee Mac]

I wonder if people's opinions on gaining match fitness after a long spell out will change once we all get back to playing 5 a sides again

I'll probably have a new found sympathy for Magennis when I do

[Dashing Bob S]

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Poor signing.

We, as a club, cannae afford to spend money on a player who isn’t contributing. That money could, and probably should, have been spent elsewhere this season.

He’s clearly a talented young player, from how he’s performed before he came to Hibs, and he might well kick on, but I really don’t think we’ve got the kind of budget that can afford to take these risks.

Completely disagree. I think it's because of our budgetary constraints that we have to take risks of this kind. We've generally taken such gambles with talented players who have injury issues, or might have discipline problems, or are just plain inconsistent, because they potentially improve the team and excite the fans. I'd rather see us go down this route than sign tried, tested (and basically failed to reach any other level) journeymen.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the strategy of buying/developing talented young players and then not standing in their way when they have the opportunity to play in a more lucrative (higher standard) league than Scotland's. In the case of MaGennis, I've heard from St Mirren fans that he's not only a talent but a natural leader. Given his injury, this year was always going to be convalescence for him. Hopefully he'll be an established player next term.

[JimBHibees]

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His general fitness issue is an excuse to some degree. His injury from 5 months ago? Not so much. The idea that he gets say a thigh injury now and he’s “starting again” as was suggested on his recovery from his serious knee injury is nonsense.

Jack Ross has felt he’s been fit enough to play 3 games in 8 days or so when he signed. He felt he was fit enough to start in a cup semi final. He’s felt he’s fit enough to start league games. That serious injury has been and gone. He needs to start performing. Coming back from a slight niggle a couple of times isn’t an excuse for the fact he’s offered nothing imo and an injury that he’s long since recovered from isn’t either.

Have you ever played the game? As if you had you would likely have a bit more understanding of the difficulties in coming back from a serious knee injury and some of the smaller injuries that can occur. He is a quality player at a new club and it has been stop start. Give him a bit time please.

[Crunchie]

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Have you ever played the game? As if you had you would likely have a bit more understanding of the difficulties in coming back from a serious knee injury and some of the smaller injuries that can occur. He is a quality player at a new club and it has been stop start. Give him a bit time please.

There's just no convincing some, Jim. I think the only time some of our illustrious posters have played the game was on their computer.

[calumhibee1]

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Okay, you are a lost cause on this one - coming back from a serious injury having played virtually no football for months end and then picking up, which is common with these things, some other niggles, followed by Covid.

None of that is a factor and I suppose then he's just rubbish always has been and this is an indication of how he will play for the next 4 years. That's your argument is it?

People saying he’s been disappointing so far has now turned into them saying he’s rubbish, always has been and is guaranteed to be for the next 4 years. Talk about getting all worked up and defensive over something that the player himself would probably agree with to the point your making things up. Yet it’s me that’s the lost cause?

Not once have I said he’s rubbish, not once have I said he always has been and not once have I said he’s guaranteed to be rubbish for the next 4 years. So quite how you’ve managed to decide ‘that’s my argument’ I’ve no idea.

[calumhibee1]

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Have you ever played the game? As if you had you would likely have a bit more understanding of the difficulties in coming back from a serious knee injury and some of the smaller injuries that can occur. He is a quality player at a new club and it has been stop start. Give him a bit time please.

I’ve played football to East of Scotland level before the Lowland League came in, so probably a higher level than most on here.

Nobody has ever suggested he shouldn’t be getting injured. He should however be showing more than he has been - he’s had 14 appearances to show something - and he has fully recovered from his knee injury. I’d bet good money that Kyle Magennis wouldn’t go around telling people he’s still recovering from his knee injury now and I’d bet good money he would admit his start at Hibs has been disappointing.

[Crunchie]

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I’ve played football to East of Scotland level before the Lowland League came in, so probably a higher level than most on here.

Nobody has ever suggested he shouldn’t be getting injured. He should however be showing more than he has been - he’s had 14 appearances to show something - and he has fully recovered from his knee injury. I’d bet good money that Kyle Magennis wouldn’t go around telling people he’s still recovering from his knee injury now and I’d bet good money he would admit his start at Hibs has been disappointing.

If you've played football you'll know everything isn't black and white. There are so many factors involved you can bet you have no idea what the reasons are, it certainly isn't because he is a bad player.
Did you also write off Joe Newell after his first few games for us?

[calumhibee1]

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If you've played football you'll know everything isn't black and white. There are so many factors involved you can bet you have no idea what the reasons are, it certainly isn't because he is a bad player.
Did you also write off Joe Newell after his first few games for us?

Are people even reading what has been written on this thread? When have I written him off? Infact when has anyone written him off?

[Greenbeard]

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Nonsense. Look at the money English Premier League clubs have. They can employ the best coaches with state of the art facilities and the best medical treatment money can buy in this country. Yet their players can't just hit the ground running and need to build up their minutes to get match fitness.

Scott Allan said in his recent interview he's the fittest he's ever felt but he's not match fit because he hasn't been able to play any bounce games.

These days I do not accept that benefits arising from bounce games cannot be replicated in training. It is nothing to do with "fitness" as indeed you have admitted with your Scott Allan example. It is about competitive match readiness in terms of performing under pressure when it really means something - like the difference between the practice putting green and the 4 foot putt on the last to win the Saturday medal. I agree you need some properly competitive minutes to get that side of your readiness back. But nowhere near as much as some folk are suggesting, as was the case 20+ years ago.

[Crunchie]

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Are people even reading what has been written on this thread? When have I written him off? Infact when has anyone written him off?

From your comments I thought that's what you were implying, if that's not the case I don't get the criticism at this early stage of his career with us.

[calumhibee1]

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From your comments I thought that's what you were implying, if that's not the case I don't get the criticism at this early stage of his career with us.

All my comments and others on this thread have said is that his start to his Hibs career has been disappointing both in terms of injuries and performances, something which I’d be stunned if Hibs and Magennis didn’t acknowledge himself. Nothing particularly scathing.

This has somehow morphed into folk saying that people are writing him off, saying he’s not good enough, never has been and never will be over the next 4 years.

[calumhibee1]

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These days I do not accept that benefits arising from bounce games cannot be replicated in training. It is nothing to do with "fitness" as indeed you have admitted with your Scott Allan example. It is about competitive match readiness in terms of performing under pressure when it really means something - like the difference between the practice putting green and the 4 foot putt on the last to win the Saturday medal. I agree you need some properly competitive minutes to get that side of your readiness back. But nowhere near as much as some folk are suggesting, as was the case 20+ years ago.

Once you’ve made 14 appearances upon your return from a serious knee injury, starting 4 of them including a cup semi final, a couple bounce games against 17 year olds and guys who aren’t starting at their clubs looking to keep ticking over whilst everyone is playing at 50% really isn’t going to do much for you in terms of coming back from that injury.

[scoopyboy]

I'm hopeful he will be a good signing.

A full pre season and crowds back will be a better platform for him to perform.

I don't we will get much this season unfortunately.

[The Modfather]

Out of interest what kind of player should we expect when he’s up to speed? More a McGinn or a McGeouch? My concern is that when he has played he’s been shunted to the left side. I hope we bought him with a specific midfield position in mind and not simply signing a good player who we will work out how to fit in later.

[hibbysam]

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I’ve played football to East of Scotland level before the Lowland League came in, so probably a higher level than most on here.

Nobody has ever suggested he shouldn’t be getting injured. He should however be showing more than he has been - he’s had 14 appearances to show something - and he has fully recovered from his knee injury. I’d bet good money that Kyle Magennis wouldn’t go around telling people he’s still recovering from his knee injury now and I’d bet good money he would admit his start at Hibs has been disappointing.

Who said he hasn’t recovered from a knee injury? His knee is fine, due to the length of time he was out he’s ended up with two muscle injuries on the back of that. You are the one that keeps banging on about his injury 5 months ago failing to acknowledge he’s been out a further two months, and then a number of weeks now with Covid, on the back of that and as a result never quite getting fully up to speed. It’s been disappointing due to his injuries, absolutely.

[hibbysam]

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These days I do not accept that benefits arising from bounce games cannot be replicated in training. It is nothing to do with "fitness" as indeed you have admitted with your Scott Allan example. It is about competitive match readiness in terms of performing under pressure when it really means something - like the difference between the practice putting green and the 4 foot putt on the last to win the Saturday medal. I agree you need some properly competitive minutes to get that side of your readiness back. But nowhere near as much as some folk are suggesting, as was the case 20+ years ago.

So you agree playing 30-40 minutes a couple of times before getting injured isn’t enough time to be properly sharp and firing, before getting injured again. He’s never had a run of games to get his sharpness up, 2 games then 3 games then 4 games was his league record before getting injured.

[calumhibee1]

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Who said he hasn’t recovered from a knee injury? His knee is fine, due to the length of time he was out he’s ended up with two muscle injuries on the back of that. You are the one that keeps banging on about his injury 5 months ago failing to acknowledge he’s been out a further two months, and then a number of weeks now with Covid, on the back of that and as a result never quite getting fully up to speed. It’s been disappointing due to his injuries, absolutely.

You’ve brought it up numerous times. Others have brought it up numerous times. If he’s recovered from it then it’s not really relevant this far down the line.

I’m not quite sure how I’ve failed to acknowledge he’s been out again seeing as I’ve mentioned it on more than one occasion. I’ve even said he’ll be disappointed in how his time at Hibs has went, be that injuries or performance. Seems like an acknowledgement to me.

His performances have also been disappointing. Read the match threads, player ratings etc from the games he’s played. Magennis will be disappointed in how he’s performed when he’s got on the pitch, of that I’ve no doubt, especially if he’s as good as people claim he is. I’d actually be slightly concerned if he thought his performances have been good enough but thankfully I doubt that’s the case.

[hibbysam]

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You’ve brought it up numerous times. Others have brought it up numerous times. If he’s recovered from it then it’s not really relevant this far down the line.

Of course it is, it’s a factor of his future injuries that he got. I’d hedge my bets that his two muscle injuries are as a direct result of his lengthy knee absence.