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Thread: Annual Accounts

  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    What is a healthy cash in hand balance? Also, how often do we sell more than 9000 season tickets by the end of June (cut off date for accounts so cut off date for cash in hand)? Again I don’t think this seasons ticket sales at that point has any impact on the health of last seasons accounts.
    Good seasons in the past have seen us with around £5m+ cash in hand, however transfer dealings in August will obviously have an effect.

    The number of STs sold at the end of June is irrelevant. It's the total one month later that goes into the accounts.


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  3. #32
    First Team Breakthrough King Arthur's Avatar
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    Hopefully we'll get another million in prize money. Our prize money for 7th last season was £1.43 million, Motherwell got £2.4 million for finishing 3rd. And we'll probably sell at least one player in the summer. Big Ron's no mug, I think our finances will be sound.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Good seasons in the past have seen us with around £5m+ cash in hand, however transfer dealings in August will obviously have an effect.

    The number of STs sold at the end of June is irrelevant. It's the total one month later that goes into the accounts.
    Our year end is the end of June isn't it? It got moved forward when they changed the league cup I think.

    So the cash balance would be the money received for ST sales up to the end of June, which I imagine would be the bulk of it but not all.

    If we're just using cash balance then I don't think we'd know what was ST sales and what was left over from last period either (again, mostly the former though). Deferred income would be the best indicator of how ST sales were going for the next season (by the point of reading it would be the season we're in the middle/near the end of) up to the point of the end of June.

    I'm with hibbysam on this one, most people look at the income in the p&l as their point of reference, dated as it may be.
    Mon the Hibs.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    Our year end is the end of June isn't it? It got moved forward when they changed the league cup I think.

    So the cash balance would be the money received for ST sales up to the end of June, which I imagine would be the bulk of it but not all.

    If we're just using cash balance then I don't think we'd know what was ST sales and what was left over from last period either (again, mostly the former though). Deferred income would be the best indicator of how ST sales were going for the next season (by the point of reading it would be the season we're in the middle/near the end of) up to the point of the end of June.

    I'm with hibbysam on this one, most people look at the income in the p&l as their point of reference, dated as it may be.
    I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?

    Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?

    Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.
    They’ve been the end of June for years, was extended by two days to take the takeover into account (cash injection and debt clearance).

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    They’ve been the end of June for years, was extended by two days to take the takeover into account (cash injection and debt clearance).

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I stand corrected, the last published accounts were to July 2nd 2019. Would it not have been changed to coincide with the change of ownership?

    Obviously the cash balance doesn't tell the whole story, but it remains a decent pointer.
    I think it predates the ownership change.

    I could be wrong but I think it was to keep the playing season neatly within the financial year.
    Mon the Hibs.

  9. #38
    Let's just wait until they are published there is no point speculating.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbhibby View Post
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    Let's just wait until they are published there is no point speculating.
    In years gone by it was fairly easy to predict roughly what the accounts were going to show. This time around is completely different as there are so many unknowns, mainly due to Covid but Ron also seems to have moved us up a gear in terms of the player budget - at least that's the impression I get.

    A bit of speculation could be interesting.

    You could say that there's no point in us debating Saturday's red card, but we still do it.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    In years gone by it was fairly easy to predict roughly what the accounts were going to show. This time around is completely different as there are so many unknowns, mainly due to Covid but Ron also seems to have moved us up a gear in terms of the player budget - at least that's the impression I get.

    A bit of speculation could be interesting.

    You could say that there's no point in us debating Saturday's red card, but we still do it.
    Agreed.

    Speculating what’s in the accounts, or how we will do in the next four games etc isn’t going to affect what actually happens. Would be boring as **** if we just sat and waited for things to happen before commenting on them. Rumours and speculation is a huge part of football and sites like this.

  12. #41
    Profit is nice. Cash is king.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member BSEJVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    Profit is nice. Cash is king.
    Except for the fact that if you keep posting losses your cash will evaporate unless further capital is injected.


    There are many things to look at it a set of accounts, with neither profit nor cash balances being the sole arbiter of success or stability

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by BSEJVT View Post
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    Except for the fact that if you keep posting losses your cash will evaporate unless further capital is injected.


    There are many things to look at it a set of accounts, with neither profit nor cash balances being the sole arbiter of success or stability
    Without cash you cannot do business.You can without profit which as you know is arrived at in an often artificial way in employing certain accounting procedures.

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    Without cash you cannot do business.You can without profit which as you know is arrived at in an often artificial way in employing certain accounting procedures.
    But as fans we're usually more interested in the profit ( or more accurately here, the income) which shows the overall performance for the year being reported.

    The cash line is a single balance of the amount of money we held on one given day. Sure, it's a reasonable indicator of what will be available to spend on the next season but it's not generally the headline figure people are interested in reading about I don't think.
    Mon the Hibs.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    But as fans we're usually more interested in the profit ( or more accurately here, the income) which shows the overall performance for the year being reported.

    The cash line is a single balance of the amount of money we held on one given day. Sure, it's a reasonable indicator of what will be available to spend on the next season but it's not generally the headline figure people are interested in reading about I don't think.
    In reality the later the accounts are published (and it's already almost 8 months after the year end), the less interesting the cash balance becomes. In the second week of the month it's good to know how much of your wages you have left whereas you don't really care how much you had a month earlier.

  17. #46
    Unless there's a liquidity crisis. The P and L gives us the best indication of how the business is performing.

    Most fans probably rely on that number without realising it, we all just talk about if the club made a profit etc, thats just the headline amount in the P and L. Its also the bit that's largely picked up by the media.

    Lots of cash in the bank isn't a good thing. There is an opportunity cost of holding too much cash, I can't understand why celtic seemed so content to build massive cash reserves, they could have spent that money on anything and then released the amounts when needed.

    Footbally clubs up here don't operate as sensible businesses, and some of the decision making from club boards, like celtics make that point so obvious

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juniper Greens View Post
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    Unless there's a liquidity crisis. The P and L gives us the best indication of how the business is performing.

    Most fans probably rely on that number without realising it, we all just talk about if the club made a profit etc, thats just the headline amount in the P and L. Its also the bit that's largely picked up by the media.

    Lots of cash in the bank isn't a good thing. There is an opportunity cost of holding too much cash, I can't understand why celtic seemed so content to build massive cash reserves, they could have spent that money on anything and then released the amounts when needed.

    Footbally clubs up here don't operate as sensible businesses, and some of the decision making from club boards, like celtics make that point so obvious
    Very few football clubs, especially in Scotland, have excess cash. Given Hibs go through £600k+ per month, it's surely not excessive for us to attack the season with say £5m in the bank?

  19. #48
    In the last accounts profit was arrived at after deduction of depreciation and amortisation of contracts totalling £900,000.In another year of lower season ticket sales this could have lead to a reported loss but would have no effect on the ability of the club to do business but what would have an effect would be the lower season sales generating less cash.

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