Taking the knee

[WhileTheChief..]

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All you’re doing here is revealing your own bias.

Players are continuing to take the knee because the message still isn’t getting through. Judging by your comment, they are right.

Maybe you’re right, I’ve definitely not paid as much attention to them as most on here seem to have done.

[Jones28]

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Unfortunately your plea appears to be falling on deaf ears.

Tbf this is about as close to the two merging as is possible.

[WeeRussell]

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Tbf this is about as close to the two merging as is possible.

And while there may be an argument for the thread being in the holy ground, does it really f***king matter that much to people 😂

Always find it amusing when someone drops in just to say a thread should be moved. Does anyone actually read every single thread on any board? I choose about a handful at the most that interest me.

Each to their own of course, I just always find it a strange gripe. Especially when folk get really worked up about it.

[Jones28]

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And while there may be an argument for the thread being in the holy ground, does it really f***king matter that much to people 😂

Always find it amusing when someone drops in just to say a thread should be moved. Does anyone actually read every single thread on any board? I choose about a handful at the most that interest me.

Each to their own of course, I just always find it a strange gripe. Especially when folk get really worked up about it.

Exactly. It’s not like there’s much happening 😂

[wookie70]

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https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Have a quick read.

They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.

Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?

They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.

There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

The other replies have covered what I think but I did specifically say the BLM UK site and like others I take a world view on equality and can't really see what issues anyone could have with the page you linked to. Where you are born and what genes and race you have are not something you can determine or change but they do determine how the state treats you in the US and although it might not be quite as horrific here, those injustices still happen.

For me the sentence on the page you linked to that sums up BLM is this "We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise." That shows how far away Black people are from equality and that the most pressing need is to stop being specifically targeted.

[Mutu]

I have nothing to add to this thread but thought it worth mentioning that this thread is a credit to the forum. Thoughtful, non-reactionary posts on a very delicate topic conducted in a respectful manner.

As you were...

[jacomo]

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https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Have a quick read.

They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.

Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?

They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.

There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

This is the key question isn’t it?

The right wing media (ie the majority) will tell you that people in Britain *shouldn’t* have reacted to George Floyd’s death in the way they did, because the experience of black people in America is very different to black people in the UK.

And yet that murder resonated with people in Britain.

So, maybe, instead of getting cross about that, walk a mile in someone else’s shoes and try to understand their perspective.

[bigwheel]

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https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Have a quick read.

They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.

Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?

They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.

There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

why not ask that to some black or minority friends or colleagues if it is a “thing here”?? Ask them and listen to their stories of racism, inequality lack of inclusion .....

[hibsbollah]

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I have nothing to add to this thread but thought it worth mentioning that this thread is a credit to the forum. Thoughtful, non-reactionary posts on a very delicate topic conducted in a respectful manner.

As you were...

I think the thread is also reflective of the .net user demographic. I’d be surprised if there were (m)any regular contributors on here who have regular experience of racist abuse or being a victim of systematic racism.

[WhileTheChief..]

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This is the key question isn’t it?

The right wing media (ie the majority) will tell you that people in Britain *shouldn’t* have reacted to George Floyd’s death in the way they did, because the experience of black people in America is very different to black people in the UK.

And yet that murder resonated with people in Britain.

So, maybe, instead of getting cross about that, walk a mile in someone else’s shoes and try to understand their perspective.

I’m not cross, mad, upset, annoyed or anything else, just shooting the breeze really, having a chat if you like.

I’m all for equality but I don’t buy into BLMs stance that the state target BAME people or that black people are “systematically targeted for demise”.

[WhileTheChief..]

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The other replies have covered what I think but I did specifically say the BLM UK site and like others I take a world view on equality and can't really see what issues anyone could have with the page you linked to. Where you are born and what genes and race you have are not something you can determine or change but they do determine how the state treats you in the US and although it might not be quite as horrific here, those injustices still happen.

For me the sentence on the page you linked to that sums up BLM is this "We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise." That shows how far away Black people are from equality and that the most pressing need is to stop being specifically targeted.

I’ve highlighted the last part of the sentence you referred to as that is the point I disagree with.

I’m not arguing about equality in the slightest. I just don’t agree with BLM.

[jacomo]

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I’m not cross, mad, upset, annoyed or anything else, just shooting the breeze really, having a chat if you like.

I’m all for equality but I don’t buy into BLMs stance that the state target BAME people or that black people are “systematically targeted for demise”.

For what it’s worth, neither do I.

But I think you’re putting too much emphasis on the organisation and trying to pick holes in it. BLM was a much more organic, grass roots idea which struck a chord with many people.

By saying you don’t agree with BLM (the organisation) you are also dismissing people’s genuine grievances.

[WhileTheChief..]

If BLMs sole aim was to help in the fight for equality for BAME people I’d be 100% behind them.

It’s not though, and therefore neither am I.

You do not need to be a supporter of BLM to be against racism.

The tone nowadays is that if you dare to question BLM you’re a racist. Bollocks to that and anyone who says it!

[bigwheel]

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If BLMs sole aim was to help in the fight for equality for BAME people I’d be 100% behind them.

It’s not though, and therefore neither am I.

You do not need to be a supporter of BLM to be against racism.

The tone nowadays is that if you dare to question BLM you’re a racist. Bollocks to that and anyone who says it!

Here is the description from BLM UK website today.

What don’t you agree with ?

.......We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.

We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else.

We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Here is the description from BLM UK website today.

What don’t you agree with ?

.......We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.

We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else.

We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.

I was wondering what the political beliefs folk spoke about as a reason for booing the taking the knee. Still can’t see any from that?

[jacomo]

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I was wondering what the political beliefs folk spoke about as a reason for booing the taking the knee. Still can’t see any from that?

It’s a fig leaf to try and cover bigotry, no more to it than that.

[jacomo]

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If BLMs sole aim was to help in the fight for equality for BAME people I’d be 100% behind them.

It’s not though, and therefore neither am I.

You do not need to be a supporter of BLM to be against racism.

The tone nowadays is that if you dare to question BLM you’re a racist. Bollocks to that and anyone who says it!

Again, you are following the right wing media narrative that BLM is all under the control of some top down sophisticated organisation intent on anarchy and punishing white people for the crimes of their ancestors.

Stop buying into it, please!

[Kato]

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Again, you are following the right wing media narrative that BLM is all under the control of some top down sophisticated organisation intent on anarchy and punishing white people for the crimes of their ancestors.

Stop buying into it, please!

Maybe to understand WTC's stance on BLM a bit better you have to know that he stated he would have voted for Trump in the last US Election.

[WhileTheChief..]

I’m reading their website, nothing else!

https://blacklivesmatter.com/

Take a look and see what you think. It’s night and day compared to the UK one by all accounts.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Maybe to understand WTC's stance on BLM a bit better you have to know that he stated he would have voted for Trump in the last US Election.

As mentioned earlier, I don’t have a stance, or even a strong opinion either way for that matter.

Just a chilled out chat. Cheers.

[Kato]

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Here is the description from BLM UK website today.

What don’t you agree with ?

.......We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.

We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else.

We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.

A message which doesn't seem to have gotten through to a few Tory MP's. Talk about playing to the gallery.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...mpression=true

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[bigwheel]

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A message which doesn't seem to have gotten through to a few Tory MP's. Talk about playing to the gallery.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...mpression=true

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Exactly , playing to a crowd who would have been viewed as BNP supporters 20 years ago ....

[WeeRussell]

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If BLMs sole aim was to help in the fight for equality for BAME people I’d be 100% behind them.

It’s not though, and therefore neither am I.

You do not need to be a supporter of BLM to be against racism.

The tone nowadays is that if you dare to question BLM you’re a racist. Bollocks to that and anyone who says it!

It is though. You said you don’t buy into the view that targeting black people for their demise exists.. okay fine - but why does them working to stop that, if they believe it does exist, turn you against the whole movement. Is that really such a bad thing?

And how would any of that lead you to understand anyone booing footballers taking the knee?

[northstandhibby]

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It is though. You said you don’t buy into the view that targeting black people for their demise exists.. okay fine - but why does them working to stop that, if they believe it does exist, turn you against the whole movement. Is that really such a bad thing?

And how would any of that lead you to understand anyone booing footballers taking the knee?

Can't you take politics to the Holy Ground where they belong?

[blackpoolhibs]

I understand why this all started, i understand why some sort of stance was needed, and was needed way before George Floyd.

But what is taking the knee achieving now, you have some teams doing it some disregarding it and in the Scottish rugby teams case, both at the same time?

And is it just football that do this?

[matty_f]

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I understand why this all started, i understand why some sort of stance was needed, and was needed way before George Floyd.

But what is taking the knee achieving now, you have some teams doing it some disregarding it and in the Scottish rugby teams case, both at the same time?

And is it just football that do this?

I can’t believe you’ve asked the last question, considering the sentence immediately before.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I can’t believe you’ve asked the last question, considering the sentence immediately before.

[jacomo]

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A message which doesn't seem to have gotten through to a few Tory MP's. Talk about playing to the gallery.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...mpression=true

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MPs are elected on political platforms but then they have a duty to represent all their constituents to the best of their abilities.

C**** like this who are more interested in perpetuating a culture war should get binned.

[makaveli1875]

I don't really know enough about BLM to have an opinion , the taking the knee thing seems played out and it doesn't seem to be doing much with all the high profile incidents that have happened since with Glen Kamara , Marcus Rashford etc .
Something needs to happen , maybe football needs to find its own thing . Still if players want to take the knee then they should be able to do it without being booed and abused from the stands.

[hibsbollah]

Lawrence Fox ‘proud of every single fan who booed. I hope more do it as the stadiums continue to fill up. Taking the knee to a Marxist cult who hate everything Britain and England stands for is embarrassing beyond belief’.

Which is it, Lawrence, Britain or England? And what do they stand for?