Taking the knee

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not confused. The Black Lives Matter slogan being used in our sport, and the gesture of taking the knee is solely about equality and taking a stand against racism.

I know you are referring to the sudden use of the word 'Marxist' which the majority of these balloons booing couldn't even spell, never mind explain why it makes them boo an anti-racist gesture, again by way of excusing racists.

Why do you think they're suddenly all concerned about Marxism and left wing organisations rather than happy to see footballers take a stand against racism?

I remember when they used to make monkey noises and throw bananas as a gesture against Marxism, or maybe that was something else. It was remiss of me at the time to ask the reasons they were doing these things.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not confused. The Black Lives Matter slogan being used in our sport, and the gesture of taking the knee is solely about equality and taking a stand against racism.

I know you are referring to the sudden use of the word 'Marxist' which the majority of these balloons booing couldn't even spell, never mind explain why it makes them boo an anti-racist gesture, again by way of excusing racists.

Why do you think they're suddenly all concerned about Marxism and left wing organisations rather than happy to see footballers take a stand against racism?

You’re confused because the pivot has been away from BLM to a general anti racism message.

The fact you are still talking about BLM is illustrating what I’m talking about. Some of those fans will still think it is a BLM message and some of those fans may have concerns over some of the BLM political aims.

They might be wrong in that on a number of fronts but it will be a reason for some booing and it is not racially motivated.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's weird, I believe in the stand being made but was never happy with folk taking the knee. Seems too much like a servile gesture to me like bowing, curtseying or tugging a forelock kind of thing. Probably just me, although I would never boo a righteous cause.

It's supposed to make a point while not being disrespectful of the US anthem:

Neither the image of King nor the slave provided the inspiration for Kaepernick, however. It is often forgotten that his initial protest was to remain seated for the national anthem, mirroring a 1996 protest by the NBA basketball player Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, who took the same action citing US tyranny.

It was Nate Boyer, a white former NFL player and army veteran, who advised Kaepernick to take a knee instead of sitting down. Boyer told National Public Radio: “In my opinions and in my experience, kneeling’s never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful.”

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I remember when they used to make monkey noises and throw bananas as a gesture against Marxism, or maybe that was something else. It was remiss of me at the time to ask the reasons they were doing these things.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Exactly, and really do think it's that simple.


@Andy74 - I don't think we're going to talk one another round on this one. I will say one thing for you: for all that your views are often totally at odds with my own (very much including this topic), you always seem to conduct yourself correctly and keep the posts proper and impersonal while sticking to your guns more often than not against a majority. Given the amount of petty abuse on this place recently over much more trivial and unimportant issues, thought it was worth highlighting.

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You’re confused because the pivot has been away from BLM to a general anti racism message.

The fact you are still talking about BLM is illustrating what I’m talking about. Some of those fans will still think it is a BLM message and some of those fans may have concerns over some of the BLM political aims.

They might be wrong in that on a number of fronts but it will be a reason for some booing and it is not racially motivated.

I assure you I'm not confused - I talk about Black Lives Matter because, to be absolutely clear, it doesn't matter whether they were using that as a slogan or not... there is absolutely no reason why someone who isn't racist should be booing any of the anti-racism action that has taken place in football.

Again - why do you think so many people are apparently suddenly concerned about Marxist politics, to the extent that they need to boo anti-racist activism?

[ian cruise]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is news to me. Which groups are you talking about here? Which papers?

Sorry but just sounds like hyperbole.

Maybe people are able to make up their own minds!

Just one article that calls out the impact the adverse headlines in The Telegraph, The Sun etc. had on people's view of the movement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/20/black-lives-matter-rightwing-media

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You’re confused because the pivot has been away from BLM to a general anti racism message.

The fact you are still talking about BLM is illustrating what I’m talking about. Some of those fans will still think it is a BLM message and some of those fans may have concerns over some of the BLM political aims.

They might be wrong in that on a number of fronts but it will be a reason for some booing and it is not racially motivated.

Go on, tell us: what are the BLM political aims?

You are trying very hard to justify the unjustifiable, for some reason.

[DH1875]

Wasn't just the cup final. We didn't take the knee in a few games towards the end of the season.

[northstandhibby]

Politics should be reserved for the Holy Ground.

[wookie70]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just one article that calls out the impact the adverse headlines in The Telegraph, The Sun etc. had on people's view of the movement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...ightwing-media

Enjoyed that article and it echoes my thoughts on the matter. Having had a good look at the BLM UK website I can see nothing that suggests it is left wing unless of course you think equality is only the pursuit of the left(I wouldn't blame you for thinking that in the UK). Not sure that really matters anyway as the gesture had nothing to do with BLM to start with and is actually a fantastic story of how optics work and how two individuals talked and sorted out a better way of demonstrating. There is something in the history that also suggests the gesture may need looked at if it is becoming counter-productive but the message must remain and be demonstrated often and in the most visible way. The method Nate Boyer used to convince Kaepernick to take the knee is how you support the message but disagree with the gesture. Booing only suggests one thing to me.

I hate Tories to the core and am not that keen on Morris dancing but if a Tory wants to Morris dance as a gesture to stop racism he has my full support. I wouldn't boo him because I don't like his party and his means for demonstrating his belief, I would support him and agree to agree on the things we can.

The UK press, as ever, have created their Bogeyman or Bogey Organisation and are trying to force an issue from their own right wing agenda of xenophobia and hatred. If those that are booing are doing so because of some crazy ideas about BLM or Marxism then she should try and find a way of demonstrating that makes it clear that they are happy with the anti-racism message but not the organisation or gesture. I'd rather players took the knee but if they all stood together or similar and made the message very clear that this was their way of demonstrating against racism then I don't agree but wouldn't have too much of an issue. Booing is a very clear and recognised gesture and in this case is simply saying I don't agree with the message. Do those booing boo at people doing lunges as a warm up as that is the position most managers take while taking the knee. Not heard anyone ripping into managers because their gesture is slightly different but clearly giving the same message. Should I boo Jack Ross when we get back to ER as he isn't quite taking the knee due to his expensive troosers.

[CockneyRebel]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That’s exactly what Zaha said.

Well I am an Eagle in exile although I have not seen Wilf's article yet.

[Crunchie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Exactly, and really do think it's that simple.


@Andy74 - I don't think we're going to talk one another round on this one. I will say one thing for you: for all that your views are often totally at odds with my own (very much including this topic), you always seem to conduct yourself correctly and keep the posts proper and impersonal while sticking to your guns more often than not against a majority. Given the amount of petty abuse on this place recently over much more trivial and unimportant issues, thought it was worth highlighting.

Quality post mate

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Wasn't just the cup final. We didn't take the knee in a few games towards the end of the season.

I think the team agreed to stand rather than take the knee for the last part of the season.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just one article that calls out the impact the adverse headlines in The Telegraph, The Sun etc. had on people's view of the movement.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...ightwing-media

Thanks for posting.

Decent read but a typical article that could have come from any of the left wing media. Heard it many times.

The Guardian is just as bad as the Mail stirring up hatred. It’s just as guilty of perpetuating the phoney culture war, just from the other side.

If it’s clickbait for the Mail and Express, it’s the same for the Guardian or I.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Enjoyed that article and it echoes my thoughts on the matter. Having had a good look at the BLM UK website I can see nothing that suggests it is left wing unless of course you think equality is only the pursuit of the left(I wouldn't blame you for thinking that in the UK). Not sure that really matters anyway as the gesture had nothing to do with BLM to start with and is actually a fantastic story of how optics work and how two individuals talked and sorted out a better way of demonstrating. There is something in the history that also suggests the gesture may need looked at if it is becoming counter-productive but the message must remain and be demonstrated often and in the most visible way. The method Nate Boyer used to convince Kaepernick to take the knee is how you support the message but disagree with the gesture. Booing only suggests one thing to me.

I hate Tories to the core and am not that keen on Morris dancing but if a Tory wants to Morris dance as a gesture to stop racism he has my full support. I wouldn't boo him because I don't like his party and his means for demonstrating his belief, I would support him and agree to agree on the things we can.

The UK press, as ever, have created their Bogeyman or Bogey Organisation and are trying to force an issue from their own right wing agenda of xenophobia and hatred. If those that are booing are doing so because of some crazy ideas about BLM or Marxism then she should try and find a way of demonstrating that makes it clear that they are happy with the anti-racism message but not the organisation or gesture. I'd rather players took the knee but if they all stood together or similar and made the message very clear that this was their way of demonstrating against racism then I don't agree but wouldn't have too much of an issue. Booing is a very clear and recognised gesture and in this case is simply saying I don't agree with the message. Do those booing boo at people doing lunges as a warm up as that is the position most managers take while taking the knee. Not heard anyone ripping into managers because their gesture is slightly different but clearly giving the same message. Should I boo Jack Ross when we get back to ER as he isn't quite taking the knee due to his expensive troosers.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Have a quick read.

They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.

Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?

They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.

There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Have a quick read.

They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.

Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?

They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.

There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

Every so often a post on hibs.net staggers me...

Aside from any argument about if that website is representative of the campaigns taking place in UK-based sport, and also the fact that examples of each of the above have happened in our country (albeit nowhere near the the same level as America)... are you seriously questioning why people in Scotland would want to support a cause that tackles all of your points in bold above? Furthermore, how on earth can you fully understand people not wanting anything to do with BLM because of the parts you've highlighted?! Why would anyone not want to see an end to the targeting and oppression of black people

I think the first part of your post that I have highlighted, together with the second might sum up why you are missing the point in a lot of this.

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thanks for posting.

Decent read but a typical article that could have come from any of the left wing media. Heard it many times.

The Guardian is just as bad as the Mail stirring up hatred. It’s just as guilty of perpetuating the phoney culture war, just from the other side.

If it’s clickbait for the Mail and Express, it’s the same for the Guardian or I.

So which was it... a decent read, or just typical left wing media stirring up hatred and perpetuating a phoney war

[Gareth]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
Have a quick read.
They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.
Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?
They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.
There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

Opening page of Black Lives Matter UK
"We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation."
https://blacklivesmatter.uk/
Now what's your or anyone elses problem with any of that?

[bigwheel]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Have a quick read.

They talk about ending state violence and vigilante attacks against black people. They talk about working for a world where black people are no longer targeted for demise. They talk about facing deadly oppression.

Has any of that ever been an issue in Scotland? Why is BLM even a thing in this country?

They have a very narrow mission statement and I can fully understand why people don’t want to be associated with them. Nothing to do with Marx or any other BS.

There is no mention of equality on their website anywhere, which is kinda strange.

Jeez, you are trying hard to justify not supporting this….is it this website you think about when you see people taking the knee ? You don’t rise way above that and consider the action is about the daily plight of minorities and people of colour ?

There is nothing about it that is negative. Not supporting it, or booing, disregards and disrespects the call for inclusion and equality that is the true spirit of the act of “ taking the knee “


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Opening page of Black Lives Matter UK
"We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation."
https://blacklivesmatter.uk/
Now what's your or anyone elses problem with any of that?

No problem with that at all.

It’s entirely different to the US website though.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So which was it... a decent read, or just typical left wing media stirring up hatred and perpetuating a phoney war

A decent read, I just don’t agree with much of it.

Both the left and right wing media talk about ‘phoney culture wars’.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Every so often a post on hibs.net staggers me...

Aside from any argument about if that website is representative of the campaigns taking place in UK-based sport, and also the fact that examples of each of the above have happened in our country (albeit nowhere near the the same level as America)... are you seriously questioning why people in Scotland would want to support a cause that tackles all of your points in bold above? Furthermore, how on earth can you fully understand people not wanting anything to do with BLM because of the parts you've highlighted?! Why would anyone not want to see an end to the targeting and oppression of black people

I think the first part of your post that I have highlighted, together with the second might sum up why you are missing the point in a lot of this.

Happy to be admit I may have picked things up wrong. I’d rather be proved wrong than go on thinking I’m right

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Happy to be admit I may have picked things up wrong. I’d rather be proved wrong than go on thinking I’m right

Cheers for taking the time to reply to what was quite a few posts 👍

Not so much about proving anyone right or wrong for me, I just genuinely fail to understand the logic behind booing such an initiative. My point to you was that the language in what you quoted seemed very inoffensive and very much about equality. I could’ve understood your stance if it was all about ‘black power’ or flipping the balance round on its head.

Let’s say you genuinely haven’t heard a racist word in Scotland in decades owing to only associating with non-racists. And even if you (now the royal you) doubted the first-hand accounts of those telling you there are issues with racists in the UK, and were happy to live life blissfully unaware of any problem. I still fail to see why non-racist people would be so angrily against anything like taking the knee or BLM messaging in sport. They could just ignore it if anti-racism really isn’t for them or they have no interest.

I don’t have much interest in mascots or a lot of the half time entertainment at football, but it’s never dawned on me to boo it or go radge on social media about it. I don’t tend to enter the happy hibee draw at Easter road, but I’m not against it.

But again, it comes back to not understanding why anyone, other than racists (or people that don’t want to see change but also don’t want to be called racists), would genuinely take issue with such things.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don’t think I’ve commented on taking the knee in over a year, I was only looking at the BLM website.

I know this is going off on a tangent, but I see them as militant organisation that is trying to say that white supremacy is the cause of all black peoples problems. I just completely disagree with that.

Regarding the specific point as to why people boo players taking the knee, I don’t know.

My guess would be it’s a protest about using football as the vehicle to deliver the message, not the message itself.

[WeeRussell]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don’t think I’ve commented on taking the knee in over a year, I was only looking at the BLM website.

I know this is going off on a tangent, but I see them as militant organisation that is trying to say that white supremacy is the cause of all black peoples problems. I just completely disagree with that.

Regarding the specific point as to why people boo players taking the knee, I don’t know.

My guess would be it’s a protest about using football as the vehicle to deliver the message, not the message itself.

You’ve been replying to posts about taking the knee throughout this thread, though I do accept some people have been switching between the general campaign and taking the knee. As I say, for me it’s all lumped together in people suspiciously finding excuses to take issue with it.

I won’t go into the rest of your post as I’ve typed plenty on that on this thread already 😂

[Malthibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Opening page of Black Lives Matter UK
"We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation."
https://blacklivesmatter.uk/
Now what's your or anyone elses problem with any of that?

Exactly. BLM is about tackling racism, folk who boo folk taking the knee are racists, or are falling for the guff spouted by racists. We have our fair share of racists, it's a Scottish problem as well and we become part of the problem if
we fall prey to folk who are simply trying to muddy the water.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Thanks for posting.

Decent read but a typical article that could have come from any of the left wing media. Heard it many times.

The Guardian is just as bad as the Mail stirring up hatred. It’s just as guilty of perpetuating the phoney culture war, just from the other side.

If it’s clickbait for the Mail and Express, it’s the same for the Guardian or I.

That is quite simply nonsense there is no equivalence between the level of hatred.

[Alfred E Newman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Politics should be reserved for the Holy Ground.

Unfortunately your plea appears to be falling on deaf ears.

[Newry Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Exactly. BLM is about tackling racism, folk who boo folk taking the knee are racists, or are falling for the guff spouted by racists. We have our fair share of racists, it's a Scottish problem as well and we become part of the problem if
we fall prey to folk who are simply trying to muddy the water.

People who boo are racist. Nonsense. BLM are a political organisarion with their own fair share of racists who support black supremacy and use intimidatory tactics to get people to 'agree' with them.

Having some kind of **** test 'if you dont kneel, you're against us'is school playground form of argument.

BLM is all over tv coverage, stadiums and has been on players shirts (in England).

I dont remember any issue with kick it out.

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don’t think I’ve commented on taking the knee in over a year, I was only looking at the BLM website.

I know this is going off on a tangent, but I see them as militant organisation that is trying to say that white supremacy is the cause of all black peoples problems. I just completely disagree with that.

Regarding the specific point as to why people boo players taking the knee, I don’t know.

My guess would be it’s a protest about using football as the vehicle to deliver the message, not the message itself.

All you’re doing here is revealing your own bias.

Players are continuing to take the knee because the message still isn’t getting through. Judging by your comment, they are right.