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Thread: Taking the knee

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brizo View Post
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    Agree that it had lost its initial impact and probably its initial effectiveness becoming just part of the matchday furniture. To keep these hugely important issues at the forefront of peoples minds I think its time for new initiatives which are very much needed given the large amount of online racism that's been reported.

    Re an earlier posters comments re sectarianism its disappointing that SUTR and other Scottish anti-racism campaigns have been totally silent on this which is essentially racism towards folks of Irish Catholic heritage or folk perceived to be because of the clubs they support.
    It is difficult to know what else football can do - and it can't exist in isolation to society unfortunately.

    Getting its own house in order in terms of making sure no one is discriminated against when jobs are available and making sure that there is diversity in decision making bodies is very much under football's control and I don't really know the extent to which these things are working.

    However, the main issues that get reported are in players being abused - largely on social media. This is far more difficult and this needs to come down to the people who operate the platforms. There are no amount of campaigns, gestures or education that will stop this as far as I can see. There will always be idiots who will abuse someone for something. It doesn't have to be race. Perversely, recent campaigns probably serve to keep race as a front and centre reindeer for these idiots to abuse someone.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    It is difficult to know what else football can do - and it can't exist in isolation to society unfortunately.

    Getting its own house in order in terms of making sure no one is discriminated against when jobs are available and making sure that there is diversity in decision making bodies is very much under football's control and I don't really know the extent to which these things are working.

    However, the main issues that get reported are in players being abused - largely on social media. This is far more difficult and this needs to come down to the people who operate the platforms. There are no amount of campaigns, gestures or education that will stop this as far as I can see. There will always be idiots who will abuse someone for something. It doesn't have to be race.[B] Perversely, recent campaigns probably serve to keep race as a front and centre reindeer for these idiots to abuse someone.



    Theres a definite catch 22 element as football and wider society cant afford to ignore racism but I totally agree that highlighting it does seem to fuel morons to join in, particularly when they can do so from a position of anonymity. We haven't eliminated football related sectarianism from an essentially secular Scotland after 100 plus years so unfortunately, I think the fight against racism will also be with us long term.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    Nah, but when you’re told by several people that you are basically a racist and need educated it is fair enough to point out that there are more and more people that are thinking the same way.

    My thoughts were purely on how effective and impactful this now was and whether there were now better ways to move this on.
    My feelings on the matter very much echoed yours, and the overwhelming consensus amongst my friends, colleagues and family are the same.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    It is difficult to know what else football can do - and it can't exist in isolation to society unfortunately.

    Getting its own house in order in terms of making sure no one is discriminated against when jobs are available and making sure that there is diversity in decision making bodies is very much under football's control and I don't really know the extent to which these things are working.

    However, the main issues that get reported are in players being abused - largely on social media. This is far more difficult and this needs to come down to the people who operate the platforms. There are no amount of campaigns, gestures or education that will stop this as far as I can see. There will always be idiots who will abuse someone for something. It doesn't have to be race. Perversely, recent campaigns probably serve to keep race as a front and centre reindeer for these idiots to abuse someone.

    I would have thought that cracking down on outright racism on social media would be quite straight forward. It should be as easy as victim reports it - complaint is assessed and upheld - perpetrator banned in perpetuity. Job done!

    Of course it's not always that straightforward as some definitions of racism are different from others - there are definitely grey areas - but the sort of thing highlighted recently with footballers being outright abused by brainless anonymous cowards - surely it's not that hard!

  6. #35
    An important poignant and bold gesture at the start, now a pointless, even counterproductive bore.

    Way to tear the backside out of something.

    As useful to football and society in general now as another international tournament.

  7. #36
    It's time to drop it to be honest. I never actually agreed with it in the first place. To me it's a sub servient thing to do, I would have preferred to see players standing up, fists in the air.

    I think we'll always have a racism and sectarian issue but I think clubs have done about as much as they really can re racism. I think going forward just regular mentions on the club tannoy and eh players doing their pre match thing. Perhaps articles on Hibs TV and in the programme from the players

    I wish though that Scottish football would have dealt with sectarianism as well

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day In Time View Post
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    It's time to drop it to be honest. I never actually agreed with it in the first place. To me it's a sub servient thing to do, I would have preferred to see players standing up, fists in the air.

    I think we'll always have a racism and sectarian issue but I think clubs have done about as much as they really can re racism. I think going forward just regular mentions on the club tannoy and eh players doing their pre match thing. Perhaps articles on Hibs TV and in the programme from the players

    I wish though that Scottish football would have dealt with sectarianism as well

    Along with what already happens in many grounds and what is most effective in my opinion - ordinary decent fans standing up to the morons and telling them to Shut TF Up or F Off.

    Racism does still occasionally lift it's ugly head among the ER support but I'm glad to say that it's a rare occasion and mainly because the ignorant **** are left in no uncertainty as to how unwelcome they are among the Hibs support.

  9. #38
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    For all it's apparently run its course etc, here we are still discussing racism and still discussing how to solve it. It's keeping it on the agenda, that's a good thing.
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  10. #39
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    I think the current racism problem in Scotland has come at a handy time for the bigot brothers. It has been completely ignored as usual, over something I think is nowhere near as big a problem in Scotland as sectarianism.
    Both are terrible, but both need eradicated, yet one gets much more solidarity than the other.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    For all it's apparently run its course etc, here we are still discussing racism and still discussing how to solve it. It's keeping it on the agenda, that's a good thing.
    This was exactly Marvin Bartley's point on the news last night.

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member Carheenlea's Avatar
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    Hibs players will now stand rather than kneel

    https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/hibs-racism

  13. #42
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    As the husband of someone who is racially abused routinely at times throughout the year (mostly at work I’d add), the whole take a knee / take a stand thing makes me laugh.

    It’s a pathetic attempt to pretend that football is ‘doing something’ about racism.

  14. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by H18 SFR View Post
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    As the husband of someone who is racially abused routinely at times throughout the year (mostly at work I’d add), the whole take a knee / take a stand thing makes me laugh.

    It’s a pathetic attempt to pretend that football is ‘doing something’ about racism.
    Agreed. It’s tokenism. A bit like the T shirt efforts of the international teams re Qatar.

  15. #44
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    Disappointed to be honest. Five league games to go, I thought they could have at least seen the initiative out till the end of the season.

    It’s the clubs choice of course, and I respect it, and have read and understood their thinking. Still think it sends out a bit of a wrong signal even if done for honourable reasons.

    Understand other people’s views on this and respect them, not looking to argue or debate, each to their own, just feel nothing is ever seen through to the end these days.

  16. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by H18 SFR View Post
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    As the husband of someone who is racially abused routinely at times throughout the year (mostly at work I’d add), the whole take a knee / take a stand thing makes me laugh.

    It’s a pathetic attempt to pretend that football is ‘doing something’ about racism.
    Whilst I agree it is a worn out gesture it is part of the drip drip of educating the young and the thickest folk in our communities, many of whom watch football, that racism is unacceptable.
    My sympathies are with your wife and other folk that are racially abused at work. The worst thing is that it is impossible for them to avoid these morons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H18 SFR View Post
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    As the husband of someone who is racially abused routinely at times throughout the year (mostly at work I’d add), the whole take a knee / take a stand thing makes me laugh.

    It’s a pathetic attempt to pretend that football is ‘doing something’ about racism.
    Let's all stand together against racism.Sorry to hear about your wife, mine gets it on social media, we live in her country.

  18. #47
    Hibs should be clear in mentioning all forms of bigotry. Have to deal with racism, sectarianism and any and all forms of it to get rid of it.

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carheenlea View Post
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    Hibs players will now stand rather than kneel

    https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/hibs-racism
    If by ‘standing up against racism’ means that they will walk off the pitch if one of their team mates is racially abused then I would be proud of them. Assuming that I knew what was happening then I would stand up and applaud.

    This is what is needed for the football authorities to act.

  20. #49
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    When they stop this faux-American nonsense it won't be soon enough. It's got nothing to do with us, living in one of the most tolerant countries in the world and has put race relations back 50 years.

    Keep politics out of sport and get on with the football. If they're still doing this when crowds are allowed back I hope it is roundly condemned for the virtue signalling nonsense it is.

  21. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Seveno View Post
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    If by ‘standing up against racism’ means that they will walk off the pitch if one of their team mates is racially abused then I would be proud of them. Assuming that I knew what was happening then I would stand up and applaud.

    This is what is needed for the football authorities to act.
    Maybe that would be the time to take the knee. If they hear racist abuse, rather than walk off the entire team takes the knee for maybe 10 seconds delaying but not ending the game. It would make it absolutely clear what had happened.

  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by The Pointer View Post
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    When they stop this faux-American nonsense it won't be soon enough. It's got nothing to do with us, living in one of the most tolerant countries in the world and has put race relations back 50 years.

    Keep politics out of sport and get on with the football. If they're still doing this when crowds are allowed back I hope it is roundly condemned for the virtue signalling nonsense it is.

  23. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caversham Green View Post
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    Maybe that would be the time to take the knee. If they hear racist abuse, rather than walk off the entire team takes the knee for maybe 10 seconds delaying but not ending the game. It would make it absolutely clear what had happened.
    Unfortunately there would be people in the crowd who'd be happy to have their own "hello mum" moment of fame.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pointer View Post
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    When they stop this faux-American nonsense it won't be soon enough. It's got nothing to do with us, living in one of the most tolerant countries in the world and has put race relations back 50 years.

    Keep politics out of sport and get on with the football. If they're still doing this when crowds are allowed back I hope it is roundly condemned for the virtue signalling nonsense it is.


    You wouldn’t think it though.

    Every day on every news outlet we get told how awful Britain is. I’d love to know which countries they’re comparing us to, other than Utopia.

  25. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    You wouldn’t think it though.

    Every day on every news outlet we get told how awful Britain is. I’d love to know which countries they’re comparing us to, other than Utopia.

    Indeed, if you rely on the MSM as your sole source of 'news'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    You wouldn’t think it though.

    Every day on every news outlet we get told how awful Britain is. I’d love to know which countries they’re comparing us to, other than Utopia.
    I think you are living in a utopian bubble :https://theconversation.com/how-racist-is-britain-today-what-the-evidence-tells-us-141657

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FilipinoHibs View Post
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    I think you are living in a utopian bubble :https://theconversation.com/how-racist-is-britain-today-what-the-evidence-tells-us-141657


    While the UK is definitely better than a lot of countries, there’s still a long, long way to go in the fight against racism.
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  28. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pointer View Post
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    When they stop this faux-American nonsense it won't be soon enough. It's got nothing to do with us, living in one of the most tolerant countries in the world and has put race relations back 50 years.

    Keep politics out of sport and get on with the football. If they're still doing this when crowds are allowed back I hope it is roundly condemned for the virtue signalling nonsense it is.
    Put race relations back? Stunned at such a tainted view of the current environment... maybe read the recent story (for example) of Debora Kayembe recently appointed as rector of Edinburgh Uni. Ask this respected human rights lawyer and activist how she feels about tolerance in and around Edinburgh ?

    To suggest it is actions such as “taking the knee” is the root cause of damaging race relations deserves to be called out as utter nonsense

  29. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Put race relations back? Stunned at such a tainted view of the current environment... maybe read the recent story (for example) of Debora Kayembe recently appointed as rector of Edinburgh Uni. Ask this respected human rights lawyer and activist how she feels about tolerance in and around Edinburgh ?

    To suggest it is actions such as “taking the knee” is the root cause of damaging race relations deserves to be called out as utter nonsense
    I totally agree. I've been working for 33 years and last year was the first time I heard testimony from black co-workers about their experiences of racism they had experienced in their careers. I was pretty oblivious as to just how bad some of this had been. This was due to my employer reacting to the activism of the BLM movement, amongst others, and encouraging them to share their stories to educate the rest of us. Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

    Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pointer View Post
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    When they stop this faux-American nonsense it won't be soon enough. It's got nothing to do with us, living in one of the most tolerant countries in the world and has put race relations back 50 years.

    Keep politics out of sport and get on with the football. If they're still doing this when crowds are allowed back I hope it is roundly condemned for the virtue signalling nonsense it is.

    Nailed it!

  31. #60
    Repeating a process expecting a different outcome....doesn't work.
    Taking the knee..... doesn't work

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