Taking the knee

[jacomo]

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https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...lly-stands-for


Here is one summary of BLM’s politics. Don’t know how accurate it is, I’m sure there are other opinions out there.

The Spectator are stirring the pot.

No longer a credible news source (they’ve always been right wing, but I like to think that in the past they did at least adhere to some basic standards of integrity and accuracy).

Best ignored.

[greenginger]

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The Spectator are stirring the pot.

No longer a credible news source (they’ve always been right wing, but I like to think that in the past they did at least adhere to some basic standards of integrity and accuracy).

Best ignored.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/about

I think the Spectator magazine would disagree with your description.

[hhibs]

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https://www.spectator.co.uk/about

I think the Spectator magazine would disagree with your description.

I Would disagree very much with their description of themselves,right wing and sometime "neo" publication.

[ElginHibbie]

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https://www.spectator.co.uk/about

I think the Spectator magazine would disagree with your description.

Can’t trust news entities describing themselves, Fox News in America for years called themselves “fair and balanced” when they were anything but

[hibsbollah]

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The Spectator are stirring the pot.

No longer a credible news source (they’ve always been right wing, but I like to think that in the past they did at least adhere to some basic standards of integrity and accuracy).

Best ignored.

You can add The Telegraph to that too. It’s gone from a kind of old, traditional rural demographic to catering for slavering hysteric right wing extremists. Angry angry people.

[JimBHibees]

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To demonstrate solidarity with England and their decision to take the knee.

It’s the correct decision, IMHO. Happy enough if we “take a stand” in the other games but i think the fact that morons will boo the English players taking the knee, the opportunity to show solidarity and metaphorically stand beside them in solidarity is there.

It’s a great decision, and the Scotland team deserve immense credit for their reading of the situation and the bravery to change their position for these specific circumstances.

Totally agree. Great decision.

[jacomo]

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https://www.spectator.co.uk/about

I think the Spectator magazine would disagree with your description.

‘Our writers have no party line’

Their former editor is literally the prime minister.

[Ronniekirk]

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To demonstrate solidarity with England and their decision to take the knee.

It’s the correct decision, IMHO. Happy enough if we “take a stand” in the other games but i think the fact that morons will boo the English players taking the knee, the opportunity to show solidarity and metaphorically stand beside them in solidarity is there.

It’s a great decision, and the Scotland team deserve immense credit for their reading of the situation and the bravery to change their position for these specific circumstances.

They should be continuing to take the knee then if they want to show solidarity with England They have the courage of their conviction to do it for the whole tournament not just for one game


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[BoB the Hibby]

I'm sorry taking the knee has lost it's meaning, unless society actually changes. The media change their tune to whatever they feel will gain an audience

[Kaff]

Many teams have decided kneeling has lost its impact, none more so than QPR with Les Ferdinand as lead spokesman, having many black players and from a Borough in London with high % black population.
However after the Millwall players got booed by their own fans they knelt in solidarity so them standing couldn't be used against the Millwall players and was more a protest to those booing.
Scotland have judged this correctly.

[Northernhibee]

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I'm sorry taking the knee has lost it's meaning, unless society actually changes. The media change their tune to whatever they feel will gain an audience

The fact we are facing this debate and the very vocal group of booing England fans are showing themselves to be the bigots that they are means that it has an effect. It’s shining a spotlight on how much society still has to change.

[matty_f]

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The fact we are facing this debate and the very vocal group of booing England fans are showing themselves to be the bigots that they are means that it has an effect. It’s shining a spotlight on how much society still has to change.

[AgentDaleCooper]

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I'm sorry taking the knee has lost it's meaning, unless society actually changes. The media change their tune to whatever they feel will gain an audience

How quickly do you expect society to change?

Do you think the people kneeling think that this act alone is going to be enough to change it?

[northstandhibby]

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***tried to delete this post because i misread the post i was replying to - please can a admin delete this!***

Don't worry about it. This thread belongs in the Politics forum. Most football supporters don't care about taking the knee as its purely political ideology not football news.

[Kaff]

This is a situation, as far as I can tell, that doesn't necessarily have a problem in Scottish football.
Yes we have racism/sectarianism but the general consensus has been that if a team decides to kneel or stand then that's their perogative and there's not been any backlash either way. Fair minded supporters have backed the clubs stance I think.
In England there has been multiple occasions of booing those taking the knee and they do have to address this, those booing say its the original alignment with the BLM 'political' movement that's the problem while those kneeling insist it's a symbolic act with no political agenda.
Scotland footballers showing solidarity with their English counterparts can't be dismissed and equally the mixture of players/staff in the Scotland camp should be appreciated at this time. It's a good thing we are choosing to kneel in that game even if we have chosen a different path for other matches.
If Che Adams and Stephen Reid, particularly, want to show a united front then its right the squad do so. Of course they may have no strong feelings on the matter.
I think the likes of OldFirmfacts criticising the SFA is a mistake, so far Scottish Football has taken a middle path and the appointment of Marvin as an advisor will surely have been instrumental in the decisions made. He certainly won't be shy of pointing out when the wrong choices have been made, and rightly so.

Edit. Of course we haven't had crowds at many games to fully test this, I'm going by the general tone about the game

[AgentDaleCooper]

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Don't worry about it. This thread belongs in the Politics forum. Most football supporters don't care about taking the knee as its purely political ideology not football news.

Is opposing racism, a problem prevalent in football, a political ideology?

[AgentDaleCooper]

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This is a situation, as far as I can tell, that doesn't necessarily have a problem in Scottish football.
Yes we have racism/sectarianism but the general consensus has been that if a team decides to kneel or stand then that's their perogative and there's not been any backlash either way. Fair minded supporters have backed the clubs stance I think.
In England there has been multiple occasions of booing those taking the knee and they do have to address this, those booing say its the original alignment with the BLM 'political' movement that's the problem while those kneeling insist it's a symbolic act with no political agenda.
Scotland footballers showing solidarity with their English counterparts can't be dismissed and equally the mixture of players/staff in the Scotland camp should be appreciated at this time. It's a good thing we are choosing to kneel in that game even if we have chosen a different path for other matches.
If Che Adams and Stephen Reid, particularly, want to show a united front then its right the squad do so. Of course they may have no strong feelings on the matter.
I think the likes of OldFirmfacts criticising the SFA is a mistake, so far Scottish Football has taken a middle path and the appointment of Marvin as an advisor will surely have been instrumental in the decisions made. He certainly won't be shy of pointing out when the wrong choices have been made, and rightly so.

Edit. Of course we haven't had crowds at many games to fully test this, I'm going by the general tone about the game

I mostly agree with this, but what this knee/stand business is supposed to do is highlight that racism is a problem, and a lot of the booing demonstrates not only that it is an issue, bit how uncomfortable and reluctant people are to acknowledge it. It wouldn't surprise me if there's booing at easter road when fans return, if hibs were to kneel. Same goes for any ground in scotland.

[Calmbegbie]

I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

[Brooster]

At last......a sensible post in a long line of self righteous tosh.

[Since452]

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I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

Correct 👏👏

[Since90+2]

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I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

Despite his background Floyd shouldn't have been killed. I've no idea if it was racially motivated or whether a white man would have been treated differently.

Despite how it's portrayed in this country we are, on the whole in my experience, not a racist society. That doesn't mean we don't have racists, we do and there are both black and white racist people, or that black people don't suffer prejudice at times.

My issue with taking the knee is I don't actually think it's making race relations any better.

[hibsbollah]

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I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

That is almost word for word complete bollocks, it would take too long to point out everything that’s wrong with it. Personally I’m delighted you and others have broken cover so I can put you on ignore

[hibsbollah]

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Despite his background Floyd shouldn't have been killed

I think that goes without saying.

[ElginHibbie]

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. I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority,

So keep Britain white basically?

“People have been brainwashed”, well you clearly have

[Northernhibee]

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I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

Immigration - so out of control that the hospitality, care and healthcare industries can’t get enough staff to run their businesses. Oh for freedom of movement again.

Give your head a shoogle and you might uncover a valid thought in there.

[Brooster]

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Immigration - so out of control that the hospitality, care and healthcare industries can’t get enough staff to run their businesses. Oh for freedom of movement again.

Give your head a shoogle and you might uncover a valid thought in there.

Could you give us a few examples of hospitality venues who have had to close due to lack of immigrants? I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just interested.

[Wee Effen Bee]

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I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

Speak with her pal Tommy Robinson much? You’ve just reeled off all the excuses that real racist idiots try to put forward to support the systemic racism which exists here. Go and read any statistic on immigration and see the truth. Bradley nwashed? **** me, what a 🤡!

[Northernhibee]

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Could you give us a few examples of hospitality venues who have had to close due to lack of immigrants? I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just interested.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57285428.amp

Can’t offer specific venues just now but heard horror stories of staff working massive overtime as staffing just isn’t there. Care sectors and the NHS rely largely on immigration too and are being screwed by a lack of it.

[ElginHibbie]

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Could you give us a few examples of hospitality venues who have had to close due to lack of immigrants? I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just interested.

COVID will have masked a lot of problems in the last year, but when you have Brexiteer Tim Martin saying we suddenly need more EU immigration if Wetherspoons is worried imagine the whole industry will be

[JimBHibees]

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I’m sorry, I’m going to say this and if I’m banned, so be it. I’ve long since got used to the idea this is only a democracy if you don’t rock the boat in this country. I can fully understand the booing of this and I’ll go through the reasons why,

1. George Floyd. All this for a man who was a career criminal with a rap list as long as your arm. A man who held a gun to a pregnant woman. Yes, the polis there went over the top but no one can tell me the polis in America don’t have a tough time and it’s conveniently forgotten people like Floyd are one of the reasons why.

2. People in this country are sick of being labelled racist. We have welcomed people from all over the world. Provided them with refuge and a way of life and conditions which are far better than the lands they come from. A lot of people from refugee or immigrant backgrounds have made a good life here and what do we get told? We are racist. One of the most welcoming countries in the world is racist ffs

3. Immigration. When is enough enough? I’ve seen a few posts about bigoted Englishmen here and gammons and it’s pathetic. I don’t see anything wrong with keeping immigration checked and I’m sorry, when we see major towns and cities seeing British people or Caucasians become a minority, I think that it proves things have gotten way out of control. When we see illegal immigrants openly flooding over the channel, it’s a problem and it doesn’t make you a gammon if you have had enough of it

4. Hypocrisy. Last year, it came to light there was a number of Asian/Muslim grooming gangs targeting and abusing vulnerable girls up and down the country in many towns and cities across the UK. That should have been a national scandal. Instead, quickly brushed aside and glossed over. Shameful.

People have been brainwashed. Everyone and every thing in this country is supposed to be racist despite the fact we have an open country that has welcomed people from everywhere, many of whom who have had opportunities they wouldn’t have had elsewhere. No wonder there are so many people, gammons or whatever else the left like to generalise them as, who have had enough and this booing will increase and for one, I don’t blame them

Your not wrong about the brainwashing unfortunately assume you didn't mean yourself.