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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Hibby View Post
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    It would be interesting to see how many of his goals have come off his shoulder instead of head, his shin instead of foot, off a defender instead of missing the goal. Look I now rate the job he's doing at Hibs as I've said and won't comment any more as its not the right thread but I'll maintain he cannot be classed as a natural goalscorer.
    They all went in. All that matters. Very good goalscorer.


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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Heís actually excellent at his best, which he has shown many times. In this league he is well above average
    Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?
    Jack Ross plays him every week, so he doesn't think he's average.

    Not playing for Wales has no impact whatsoever on his ability at this level. Nisbet has zero Scotland caps, average as well? How about Scott Allan?

  5. #94
    @hibs.net private member Fergus52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    Midfield has been perfectly balanced the last few weeks with Gogic, Irvine and Murphy. Getting the best players on the pitch doesn’t necessarily add up to the best balance IMO.

    It’s Gogic, Irvine and one other for me. Newell has a battle to get back in the team for me, as I don’t think he’s the one to play that bit further forward.
    You must have been watching different games to me when we played dundee utd and st mirren away then.

    I'll give you it against Aberdeen but our midfield was far from 'perfectly balanced' in either of those two other games. We had nobody playing that deep lying play maker role that newell does so well - taking the ball from the centre backs, distributing from deep, controlling the tempo, setting up attacks with line breaking progressive passes. As a result most of our build up play came from the centre backs either hoofing it to doidge or getting it wide to the wing backs and hoping they would be in space. Both those games were dreadful to watch and definitely not what I want to see from a Hibernian midfield. Having Newell in there would have made a big difference to the entertainment on display and the team performance in both games imo.

    Gogic is useful to have but how many top teams in world football play with a pure ball winner as the deepest midfielder every week? very few. Football has moved on from the 2000s.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus52 View Post
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    You must have been watching different games to me when we played dundee utd and st mirren away then.

    I'll give you it against Aberdeen but our midfield was far from 'perfectly balanced' in either of those two other games. We had nobody playing that deep lying play maker role that newell does so well - taking the ball from the centre backs, distributing from deep, controlling the tempo, setting up attacks with line breaking progressive passes. As a result most of our build up play came from the centre backs either hoofing it to doidge or getting it wide to the wing backs and hoping they would be in space. Both those games were dreadful to watch and definitely not what I want to see from a Hibernian midfield. Having Newell in there would have made a big difference to the entertainment on display and the team performance in both games imo.

    Gogic is useful to have but how many top teams in world football play with a pure ball winner as the deepest midfielder every week? very few. Football has moved on from the 2000s.
    The Dundee Utd game was on a tatie field, St Mirren was horrific conditions and Aberdeen was on a tatie field against our main rivals.

    I disagree with your assessment of how we got our chances in those games as well. Irvine played Boyle in with the best pass Iíve seen from a Hibs midfielder for his goal at Utd for a start.

    I agree most top teams have a deep lying playmaker. But weíre not a top team. Weíve found a way that gets the best from most of our players in the last few games. Attackers scoring, not conceding at the other end and the midfield contributing to both. I think thatís a good balance.
    Last edited by B.H.F.C; 15-02-2021 at 02:11 PM.

  7. #96
    @hibs.net private member worcesterhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    Funnily enough I think the team looks much more balanced when Gogic is in there irrespective of who we're playing.

    Every team carries a threat against us of some sort, often on the break. Having someone like Gogic in there to win the ball back quickly will stop weaker teams from getting any sort of foothold in the game.
    I agree with this completely, If anything we could do with a decent back up that is capable of fulfilling Gogic's role when he's injured, overplayed or just out of form. This will be particularly true if we get third this year and end up with a lot of European games. You want at least two players for every position ideally and cover for Gogic and Doidge would be the most important IMHO

  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member Fergus52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    The Dundee Utd game was on a tatie field, St Mirren was horrific conditions and Aberdeen was on a tatie field against our main rivals.

    I disagree with your assessment of how we got our chances in those games as well. Irvine played Boyle in with the best pass Iíve seen from a Hibs midfielder for his goal at Utd for a start.

    I agree most top teams have a deep lying playmaker. But weíre not a top team. Weíve found a way that gets the best from most of our players in the last few games. Attackers scoring, not conceding at the other end and the midfield contributing to both. I think thatís a good balance.
    I was talking more about our build up play in our own half, Irvine has played some great through balls in the final third but I've not seen him do it deeper in midfield to help us play through the opposition press and break through the lines while keeping the ball on the deck in the same way that Newell does or McGeough used to.

    Also think that's a massive exaggeration, was no doubt a fantastic ball but "best pass you've seen from a hibs midfielder"? I'd highly doubt that, for a period of time in 2017/18 Allan was producing moments like that two or three times in a game.

    Like you say we've been getting the results recently so I can't really complain but I think we play our best football when Gogic isn't starting due to how limited he is technically, can only really pass the way his facing and takes him an age to turn when he's facing our own goal with the ball. When we were playing 4-4-2 earlier in the season and Hallberg started partnering Newell in midfield instead of Gogic our style of play was much better to watch, with Newell controlling the game from deep and Hallberg makine late runs into the opposition box. Think Newell and Irvine could have a similar sort of partnership together.

  9. #98
    @hibs.net private member Fergus52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worcesterhibby View Post
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    I agree with this completely, If anything we could do with a decent back up that is capable of fulfilling Gogic's role when he's injured, overplayed or just out of form. This will be particularly true if we get third this year and end up with a lot of European games. You want at least two players for every position ideally and cover for Gogic and Doidge would be the most important IMHO
    We don't need to have two midfielders who's only job is to tackle in the squad. Definitely need at least one for certain games or to bring on when we're defending a lead but I'd be annoyed if we were wasting a wage on having two midfielders as technically limited as Gogic.

    We don't need that sort of player every game. We beat Motherwell 3-0 and completely controlled the midfield with Wright, Hallberg, Newell and Murphy. Who was playing the Gogic role that day?

    Similiarly when we beat Aberdeen 3-0 last season we had a diamond of Hallberg, Boyle, Newell and Allan - not a ball winner in sight but again we were dominant against a big physical team because technically our players were streets ahead.

    Absolutely loved big Marv, but in 2017/18 after he stopped starting games around January we started playing much better football than in the first half of the season and winning more games, with McGeough playing deeper in midfield than he previously had been.

  10. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus52 View Post
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    I was talking more about our build up play in our own half, Irvine has played some great through balls in the final third but I've not seen him do it deeper in midfield to help us play through the opposition press and break through the lines while keeping the ball on the deck in the same way that Newell does or McGeough used to.

    Also think that's a massive exaggeration, was no doubt a fantastic ball but "best pass you've seen from a hibs midfielder"? I'd highly doubt that, for a period of time in 2017/18 Allan was producing moments like that two or three times in a game.

    Like you say we've been getting the results recently so I can't really complain but I think we play our best football when Gogic isn't starting due to how limited he is technically, can only really pass the way his facing and takes him an age to turn when he's facing our own goal with the ball. When we were playing 4-4-2 earlier in the season and Hallberg started partnering Newell in midfield instead of Gogic our style of play was much better to watch, with Newell controlling the game from deep and Hallberg makine late runs into the opposition box. Think Newell and Irvine could have a similar sort of partnership together.
    I actually meant to say it was the best pass Iíve seen from a Hibs midfielder this year (not ever) re Irvineís pass against Utd.

    Where Iím coming from is that I donít think Newell being in the team would have made us better in those particular games. If you look at the corresponding games earlier in the season. Poor and subbed against Aberdeen, poor and subbed up at Utd. Good away to St Mirren on a nice sunny day when we scored an early goal, totally different game and conditions to what we faced a couple of weeks ago.

    Itís fine having this idealistic way of playing but in January and February on a pitch in Scotland, itís probably not going to happen that often. I think the midfield in the last few games have allowed us to do both sides of the game well which I think has been an issue previously, particularly against Aberdeen.

  11. #100
    @hibs.net private member Oscar T Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Ryan Giggs does not share your thoughts tho that he is well above average. Otherwise he'd surely have had a call up by now?
    I think Doidge is probably suffering from being in the Scottish league system, he would have a better chance getting a game for Wales if he was still at Forest Green or in League 1 down south. OTJ got 7 Welsh caps but they were when he was with Swansea, he was awful but played in the right league.


    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

  12. #101
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worcesterhibby View Post
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    I agree with this completely, If anything we could do with a decent back up that is capable of fulfilling Gogic's role when he's injured, overplayed or just out of form. This will be particularly true if we get third this year and end up with a lot of European games. You want at least two players for every position ideally and cover for Gogic and Doidge would be the most important IMHO

    Stephen McGinn, no?

  13. #102
    @hibs.net private member Fergus52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    I actually meant to say it was the best pass Iíve seen from a Hibs midfielder this year (not ever) re Irvineís pass against Utd.

    Where Iím coming from is that I donít think Newell being in the team would have made us better in those particular games. If you look at the corresponding games earlier in the season. Poor and subbed against Aberdeen, poor and subbed up at Utd. Good away to St Mirren on a nice sunny day when we scored an early goal, totally different game and conditions to what we faced a couple of weeks ago.

    Itís fine having this idealistic way of playing but in January and February on a pitch in Scotland, itís probably not going to happen that often. I think the midfield in the last few games have allowed us to do both sides of the game well which I think has been an issue previously, particularly against Aberdeen.
    That's very true, recent conditions have been terrible and having Gogic in those scrappy games has been a big help to the team.

    Once the wind has died down and the pitches are better I'd be starting Newell over him every week though

  14. #103
    @hibs.net private member Stuart93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
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    Stephen McGinn, no?
    Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests heís good enough for us even as a back up.

    Waste of a wage imo. Wouldnít have a problem with him being part of the coaching team

  15. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart93 View Post
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    Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests heís good enough for us even as a back up.

    Waste of a wage imo. Wouldnít have a problem with him being part of the coaching team
    Very strange signing. Said at the time it made no sense. No problem with the guy but not good enough for a top 3 side in this league.

  16. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Yes, his 133 careers goals in 344 games, better than 1 in 3 shows he is a hopeless goalscorer.

    He is an above average goal scorer and a quality player. Vital in our season so far.
    Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

  17. #106
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.
    Scored 19 goals last season after a slow start. Personally get the impression he is carrying an injury this season as he hasn't been at his best but has certainly shown enough in his time at the club for anyone to set what he brings even if not scoring as many as we would wish him to,

  18. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart93 View Post
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    Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests heís good enough for us even as a back up.

    Waste of a wage imo. Wouldnít have a problem with him being part of the coaching team
    I think he was used more out of necessity at the time more than anything else. I think he was signed to do more of a background role but kept him registered as a player as a fill in. Be lucky to see him on the bench ordinarily.

  19. #108
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.

    I get what some say about his work and how he allows others to play but his return of 6 goals in 32 is just not good enough, 5 in 26 league games and 1 in 5 league cup games is not a great return for a striker, needs to be better than 1 in 5, Nisbet is 1 in 2.5 at the moment.

  20. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    I get what some say about his work and how he allows others to play but his return of 6 goals in 32 is just not good enough, 5 in 26 league games and 1 in 5 league cup games is not a great return for a striker, needs to be better than 1 in 5, Nisbet is 1 in 2.5 at the moment.
    We are 3rd. So he must be good enough. We are still scoring goals.

  21. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    I get what some say about his work and how he allows others to play but his return of 6 goals in 32 is just not good enough, 5 in 26 league games and 1 in 5 league cup games is not a great return for a striker, needs to be better than 1 in 5, Nisbet is 1 in 2.5 at the moment.
    Not good enough for what? Hes about to be good enough to qualify Hibs for european group stages.

    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Football is all about opinions but if you think Doidge is a quality player I'm sorry I just don't see it. I accept he is having a lean time as far as goal scoring is concerned but his first touch is embarrassing and when clean through on goal his finishing is dreadful. We're all getting a bit carried away after three excellent wins. Lets see how the big centre finishes the season and hopefully he'll make me eat my words.
    I'm not getting carried away. I've considered him a quality player since Hecky was sacked really.

  22. #111
    @hibs.net private member The 90+2's Avatar
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    So, Newells contract?

  23. #112
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart93 View Post
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    Yet to see anything from S Mcginn that suggests heís good enough for us even as a back up.

    Waste of a wage imo. Wouldnít have a problem with him being part of the coaching team
    He's just part of the squad, we will have various types of players in the squad, with various levels of quality. They are all part of a squad that have us doing very well, and every window the squad changes hopefully for the better.

    There will always be some who we all think is not good enough, but we've needed them at one stage or another over the course of the season.

    We will finish where we finish because of the strength of that squad, good and bad.

  24. #113
    Big Doidge will be making defenders life a misery in Europe next season and good on him. Deserves it.

  25. #114
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    He's just part of the squad, we will have various types of players in the squad, with various levels of quality. They are all part of a squad that have us doing very well, and every window the squad changes hopefully for the better.

    There will always be some who we all think is not good enough, but we've needed them at one stage or another over the course of the season.

    We will finish where we finish because of the strength of that squad, good and bad.
    Quite a few were calling Daz a waste of a wage up until 2-3 weeks ago.

    The likes of SDG could still play a big part before the season is out and Stephen McGinn has yet to let us down when called upon.

    Obviously there's always room for improvement in any squad, but I personally think we have a good mix at the moment, albeit probably lacking depth in terms of forwards.

  26. #115
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Quite a few were calling Daz a waste of a wage up until 2-3 weeks ago.

    The likes of SDG could still play a big part before the season is out and Stephen McGinn has yet to let us down when called upon.

    Obviously there's always room for improvement in any squad, but I personally think we have a good mix at the moment, albeit probably lacking depth in terms of forwards.
    People had definitely written McGregor off and heís shown how premature that was.

    I do wonder if SDG could do the same. Heís had very little opportunity thus far, but hasnít really given Ross any food for thought on his rare appearances.

    Newell should think carefully. If there is an offer, it may not last forever. Ross may fancy using that money to fund the signing of Irvine and that would be a fair swap for me.

    Ideally Newell gets back to playing and ups his game, alongside more talented colleagues.
    Our midfield looks pretty tasty with Scott Allan returning.

  27. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by The 90+2 View Post
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    So, Newells contract?
    Hibernian FC are the pinnacle of Newells career and always will be. This is a guy who could not get a game for Rotherham. Happy if he stays, not over fussed if he goes.

  28. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Not good enough for what? Hes about to be good enough to qualify Hibs for european group stages.



    I'm not getting carried away. I've considered him a quality player since Hecky was sacked really.
    So if Doidge one on one with keeper, youíre confident he will score? Why was he not a quality player when Heckungbottom was here? He played most weeks.

  29. #118
    @hibs.net private member
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    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    So if Doidge one on one with keeper, youíre confident he will score? Why was he not a quality player when Heckungbottom was here? He played most weeks.
    Thereís lots of ways to score goals. Iím as confident with him one on one as most strikers really.

    Griffiths and Riordan probably much better one on one but wouldnít fancy either of them with their head.

    His record is up there with anyone, including the start he had last year when he went on to score 19 goals after it. And yes, he was still a good player when he wasnít scoring as many, just as he is now.

    I really donít get the desire to knock Doidge. We very rarely get it right with the bigger striker - we very much have and some folk want rid. Mental.

  30. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    People had definitely written McGregor off and heís shown how premature that was.

    I do wonder if SDG could do the same. Heís had very little opportunity thus far, but hasnít really given Ross any food for thought on his rare appearances.

    Newell should think carefully. If there is an offer, it may not last forever. Ross may fancy using that money to fund the signing of Irvine and that would be a fair swap for me.

    Ideally Newell gets back to playing and ups his game, alongside more talented colleagues.
    Our midfield looks pretty tasty with Scott Allan returning.
    I am one who thought McGregor done. Iím glad I was wrong.

    Iíd be surprised if Gray could come in and do similar. Heís had that many injuries and not played regularly for so long that itís hard to see him getting up and down the park. Obviously McGregor doesnít have to do that which helps him.

  31. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    Thereís lots of ways to score goals. Iím as confident with him one on one as most strikers really.

    Griffiths and Riordan probably much better one on one but wouldnít fancy either of them with their head.

    His record is up there with anyone, including the start he had last year when he went on to score 19 goals after it. And yes, he was still a good player when he wasnít scoring as many, just as he is now.

    I really donít get the desire to knock Doidge. We very rarely get it right with the bigger striker - we very much have and some folk want rid. Mental.
    Criticism is merited for Doidge this year. Heís not been good. Heís not been as brutal as a few selected posters would have you believe, but heís not been good.

    You need to go back a year to see him score with any regularity really. If heíd scored more goals this season heíd get less criticism. I think itís possible to recognise that whilst seeing that some other attributes have been useful at times.

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