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  1. #61
    Coaching Staff SlickShoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    I seem to remember Trump trying to ban flights from China at the beginning of pandemic. He was accused of being racist and the Democrats went to court and got the ban overturned.

    Iíd guess if our government had introduced bans from certain countries there would have been similar howls of racism over here.
    This is what they have done, and it's fairly pointless. People seem to think we are doing what Aus and NZ did, but we are not. There is no flat ban on people coming from overseas, you can still travel in and walk right through from certain countries, and if you don't fly in then its a whole different ball game.

    Trump banning only flights from China was pointless and stupid, the virus had already spread and Italy was ground zero in Europe but you could still fly from Italy to anywhere else at that point.


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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Even the W H O ( world health organisation) were against any sort of travel ban back at the beginning.

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/30/...lth-emergency/

  4. #63
    Oz and NZ have had travel bans since day 1, and folk there are back to living largely normal domestic lives.

    You want back in a stadium any time soon? Forget the summer holiday. Thatís the trade off and weíre way behind the curve in making it.

  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
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    Oz and NZ have had travel bans since day 1, and folk there are back to living largely normal domestic lives.

    You want back in a stadium any time soon? Forget the summer holiday. Thatís the trade off and weíre way behind the curve in making it.
    Exactly. And I donít recall any accusations of racism and stuff when they implemented that. Just a year too late for us.

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Our UK national government have done exactly that. You only have to quarantine in a hotel if you travel from one of the 30 odd countries listed and fly to England or Wales.

    Re: supermarkets ( not your comment). For once I am in the know. The information is out there for anyone interested. They are the only place we meet indoors in significant numbers.

    Hopefully these restrictions are short lived. We wouldnít want to see our football team being affected when going to the Euros would we?
    Sorry if Iíve picked you up wrong but whatís your final paragraph suggesting? Under the current rules elite sports teams can travel to competitions.

  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Alf View Post
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    I get it's a nightmare having to cough up 1700 odd, the alternative is for travel to not be allowed at all.

    Should add, the reason hotels are being used this time, is really down to the fact that no one seemed to follow the quarantine rules when they were given the chance to do it because it was 'the right thing to do'.... looks like folks need to be made to do the right thing and unfortunately those who would follow the rules suffer. I don't see that as the UK/Scot Gov fault.



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    Always going to be some a***holes who will not do as asked and be selfishly and in this case dangerously non-compliant, sometimes just for the sake of it. "F*** that. Naebdie's tellin' me what to do." I agree we have been too soft - too soft on travel, too soft on enforcement, too soft on penalties. And now, by the sounds of things, being too soft on the uptake of the vaccine, saying it is a matter of choice. Should be compulsory, unless there is a physical reason you can't have it eg allergic. Too soft too on proof of vaccination, shying away from an official passport system, and leaving the door wide open for forged confirmations as with test certificates. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...8-7b9917178e30

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
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    Always going to be some a***holes who will not do as asked and be selfishly and in this case dangerously non-compliant, sometimes just for the sake of it. "F*** that. Naebdie's tellin' me what to do." I agree we have been too soft - too soft on travel, too soft on enforcement, too soft on penalties. And now, by the sounds of things, being too soft on the uptake of the vaccine, saying it is a matter of choice. Should be compulsory, unless there is a physical reason you can't have it eg allergic. Too soft too on proof of vaccination, shying away from an official passport system, and leaving the door wide open for forged confirmations as with test certificates. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...8-7b9917178e30
    /

    I presume you will get many posts disagreeing with some/all of your suggestions/comments but I have to side with all of your post. Individuals are as much to blame as the government/scientists/medical advisors for where we as at the moment. I have personally witnessed (in Edinburgh) the a***holes you mention being selfish and ignorant from day one and still at it today. The advice/instructions on FACTS ignored by so many, undermining all the efforts of those with a social conscience and a few brain cells.

  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
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    Always going to be some a***holes who will not do as asked and be selfishly and in this case dangerously non-compliant, sometimes just for the sake of it. "F*** that. Naebdie's tellin' me what to do." I agree we have been too soft - too soft on travel, too soft on enforcement, too soft on penalties. And now, by the sounds of things, being too soft on the uptake of the vaccine, saying it is a matter of choice. Should be compulsory, unless there is a physical reason you can't have it eg allergic. Too soft too on proof of vaccination, shying away from an official passport system, and leaving the door wide open for forged confirmations as with test certificates. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...8-7b9917178e30

    Whilst not not disagreeing with your post , I think you are forgetting about the Human Rights lobby !

    Iím sure there will be battalions of Human Rights lawyers and lobbyists gearing up for the next gravy train at the very suggestion of compulsory vaccination .

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Yep, thanks for your obviously well considered and empathetic point. However, you are talking mince.

    "On 22 December 2020, Spain introduced travel restrictions on passenger travel from the UK by air and sea. These measures have been extended until 6pm (GMT+1) on 16 February 2021 (5pm / GMT in the Canary Islands), with the exception of Spanish nationals and those legally resident in Spain.
    International transit through Spanish airports by passengers on flights departing from the UK is permitted on presentation of a negative PCR, TNA or LAMP test taken within no more than 72 hours prior to arrival into Spain. "


    There are few international flights arriving or departing from Scotland. Continue enforcing essential travel restrictions and increase quarantine compliance measures. If you have travelled, you could have a PCR test 72 hours after arrival (at your own expense). Job done. Is that so hard for reactionary folk to grasp? It's tokenistic nonsense designed to appeal to sheep.

    The Scottish Government made a huge error of judgement in allowing non essential travel to resume last summer. The mass return to schools was also pretty ill considered and could have been done differently.

    The current measures are not really addressing the current Covid issue, where deaths are still mostly in care homes.

    Supermarkets are considered the main source of transmission in the community, yet still you see the same idiots parading around mask less. The local Coop where I live, significant number of people still going in without a mask (no exemption badge). Maybe our currently under worked POlis could raise some revenue by making their presence known in places like Cameron Toll and ensuring that the Covidiots stop taking the piss?
    I am thinking that you just wanted to get a whole lot off your chest and I canít blame you.

    May I go through your post a point at a time and offer my own chest clearance.

    Spain, like any country, is on a learning curve and has taken the steps you describe. Personally I donít think they go far enough but any measure like that to be effective here it must be introduced by Westminster where border control is a reserved matter. I do wish they would just close the borders at least until the vaccine has been rolled out.

    The scientists, through genomic sequencing, tell us that the original virus was eradicated from Scotland last summer but that international travel, including travel from within the UK, brought fresh infection here. The Scottish Government has pretty much gone as far as it can in border controls as it has very limited space to work with since immigration is wholly a matter for Westminster. What action the SG has taken appears to me to be an attempt to put pressure on the UKG to go a lot further

    I agree that schools was poorly handled on the face of hindsight but can see why that would happen. The education of children is a very tough thing to answer and depriving children of that education pretty much impossible to countenance. They are the future doctors, scientists, nurses, plumbers etc etc. Perhaps history will look back on the government and praise them for at least trying to find a balance between health risk and our future.
    Distance learning is the way many would have gone but that may simply not be enough to provide the education needed.
    Personally, I think we have planted the seeds for a missed generation in education and someone will have to find a solution somewhere. On the other hand, I see the pre-school age children having a fantastic start as they benefit from such close parental attention right now. I sincerely hope that the education system is ready for a generation coming along who already have a significant ability in reading,!writing and understanding on their first day at school.

    It has never been the case that deaths were or are ďmostly in care homesĒ Nonetheless, the carehome death rate is, at best a tragedy and at worst, a national scandal. There are some mitigating factors for the decision makers but time will tell what drove those decisions. On a positive note, the Herald reported yesterday that carehome death rates are plummeting right now.

    It is quite likely that supermarkets are a source of virus spread as any place where people gather allows the virus to spread. I donít know if you are right to say that they are the ďmain sourceĒ since I suspect that is the people who continue to have large house gathering and basically donít give a damn about their actions. However, if supermarkets are the main source it would only be because the other more dangerous places have been closed down.
    I also do my main shop at Cameron Toll and in the early days of lockdown saw a ridiculous number of, mostly teenagers, brazenly breaking the rules. I also saw far too much of that on the bus. I rarely use a bus these days so canít comment on the more recent experience but I am often in Cameron Toll and see only compliance these days. With the possible exception of the Gift Shop that somehow seems to remain open. Maybe they have an essential product but Iím not seeing it.

    So here we are, very much in the hands of two governments, each controlling essential parts of our lives and giving us their best version of how they balance the needs of the population. Only history will be able to decide which of them got least things wrong. My money is on the SG. Unfortunately we start from the position where the UK likely has the proportional largest death rate in the world, based on declared stats.

    Finally, we now see that there is a huge rise in stroke cases amongst those who have had the virus but not suffered too severely at the time. That has to be a massive concern going forward and is unlikely to be the only long term consequence IMHO
    Last edited by CentreLine; 11-02-2021 at 11:09 PM.

  11. #70
    Kind of suspect European football is going to grind to a halt anyway. See Germany not willing to let English teams in, I think Liverpool are now playing Leipzig in Hungary? Canít think that sort of work around is going to last for long.

    At best might end up with another attempt at finishing those cups off all in one place if they can get a round or two further in.

    Would also be surprised if Euro 2020 happens, certainly wonít be spread all over Europe if it does.


    The problem that needs to be faced is that jabbing enough of your population is not going to be the end of this, the new focus will need to be preventing the rise of mutations that can get round the jabs, and that means no travel to places that have the virus, and still limiting mixing domestically until cases are near to, or at, zero. See Australia, Perth had one case the other week, city was locked down for 5 days. Thatís the sort of thing thatís needed, otherwise the virus still infects people, potentially mutates and weíre back to square one.

    The upside of taking that hardline approach is that hopefully we can be back at ER in decent numbers next season, just likely not versus European opposition...

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    The rules are different for flying into Scotland than they are for flying into England and Wales.
    They are if you are staying in Wales or England. If you fly in to Wales or England you can avoid the hotel thing but SG is trying to close that loophole. The obstruction is the UKG who have the lead on immigration

  13. #72
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    I can't see this affecting Hibs.

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    Whilst not not disagreeing with your post , I think you are forgetting about the Human Rights lobby !

    Iím sure there will be battalions of Human Rights lawyers and lobbyists gearing up for the next gravy train at the very suggestion of compulsory vaccination .
    I doubt the Government will let it get that far.

    The airlines and insurance companies will take up that particular fight, persuading many to get down off their fences.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamig View Post
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    Exactly. And I donít recall any accusations of racism and stuff when they implemented that. Just a year too late for us.
    Because it was universal, and not limited to specific countries?

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