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  1. #61
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    After the dust has settled... let's have yet another thread moaning about Jack Ross and comparing him to other managers. Smashing.


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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jones28 View Post
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    And this non-acceptance is coming from who? Ron Gordon? The fans?

    The term gets thrown around a lot but no-one can actually quantify what non acceptance looks like. If it means sacking managers when they lose big games where do we go next if we're not accepting these results?
    If it comes from the owner then yes I guess 'non acceptance' means sacking the manager when they don't deliver the results expected/demanded.

    If it's coming from the fans, then genuine non-acceptance (ie something more tangible and hard-hitting than just ranting on a fans forum) might include (in non-Covid times):


    • A baying mob of irate fans laying seige to training at East Mains on a Monday morning after an 'unacceptable' result and hurling abuse/threatening the players and management.
    • A 100% boycott of the next home game coupled with a demand that the players and management make a filmed public apology for any 'unacceptable' result.
    • Management/players having it written into their contract that their employment with club can be terminated if fans deem their performances 'unacceptable'.


    All extreme scenarios which would never come to pass because when all's said and done we do ultimately 'accept' all manner of dreadful results, otherwise we'd surely just stop supporting the club. If every bad result was genuinely 'unacceptable' then why, really, would anyone bother investing so much emotional energy in something over which we have no control?

    Football is absurd in its capacity to send us spiralling into despair. Somebody's posted a list of all our 21st Century Hampden results on another thread and when you read through them and remember (as I do) being at the vast majority of them and the quite awful post-match gloom brought on by many of the defeats you have to question whether the fleeting moments of joy actually make up for all that.

    As I've mentioned before during this pandemic, the inability to attend matches over the last year has provided me with a bit of distance from the game and helped me weigh up how much I actually need it in my life. Watching footballers playing to empty stadiums has really brought home to me how faintly ridiculous it is that the performance of an ever-changing cast of players can impact so heavily on your sense of wellbeing.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Stanton View Post
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    After the dust has settled... let's have yet another thread moaning about Jack Ross and comparing him to other managers. Smashing.
    There's a better thread where a number of posters are complaining that his voice doesn't excite them enough. Whatever rocks your boat I suppose.

  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member Jones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Did i not just state what non acceptance can look like? You can change the manager and try someone/something new?

    We can move on players who have failed to win any of the last 5 semi finals.

    Ron/Graeme Mathie could be a bit more visible to the fans after semi final/final defeats.

    What’s the harm in the club coming out after the weekend to say, we failed this time, we’re going to change x, y and z to try and get it better next time.

    Surely we are entitled to hear from the club (other than JR) after that abject performance.
    Why? JR is the manager, it’s him and his players that need to stand up an be counted. Scott Allan has had an interview as well. He’s the figure head.

    Do you really want RG to be firing out statements like Anne Budge? What do you want these statements to say? Some copy paste pish that’s just an attempt to appease supporters? You want him to throw the manager and players under the bus when they are perfectly capable (as we have seen) of communicating with the support? I’d rather not get some patronising crap from the owner of the club.

    They’re gonna change x, y and z by getting rid of these 5 players and asking Jack to ask the team to try a bit harder next time please.

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member Jones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Non acceptance will look like a significant reduction in next seasons season ticket numbers.
    I think corona virus will have more of an impact than anything that happens this season, but if we finish fourth or third you really think we’ll see a drop off in season tickets? I don’t.

  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jones28 View Post
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    Why? JR is the manager, it’s him and his players that need to stand up an be counted. Scott Allan has had an interview as well. He’s the figure head.

    Do you really want RG to be firing out statements like Anne Budge? What do you want these statements to say? Some copy paste pish that’s just an attempt to appease supporters? You want him to throw the manager and players under the bus when they are perfectly capable (as we have seen) of communicating with the support? I’d rather not get some patronising crap from the owner of the club.

    They’re gonna change x, y and z by getting rid of these 5 players and asking Jack to ask the team to try a bit harder next time please.
    No they want Ron to tell us where it's all going wrong so that they can leap into print to ask him why he thinks he knows anything about football.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    If it comes from the owner then yes I guess 'non acceptance' means sacking the manager when they don't deliver the results expected/demanded.

    If it's coming from the fans, then genuine non-acceptance (ie something more tangible and hard-hitting than just ranting on a fans forum) might include (in non-Covid times):


    • A baying mob of irate fans laying seige to training at East Mains on a Monday morning after an 'unacceptable' result and hurling abuse/threatening the players and management.
    • A 100% boycott of the next home game coupled with a demand that the players and management make a filmed public apology for any 'unacceptable' result.
    • Management/players having it written into their contract that their employment with club can be terminated if fans deem their performances 'unacceptable'.


    All extreme scenarios which would never come to pass because when all's said and done we do ultimately 'accept' all manner of dreadful results, otherwise we'd surely just stop supporting the club. If every bad result was genuinely 'unacceptable' then why, really, would anyone bother investing so much emotional energy in something over which we have no control?

    Football is absurd in its capacity to send us spiralling into despair. Somebody's posted a list of all our 21st Century Hampden results on another thread and when you read through them and remember (as I do) being at the vast majority of them and the quite awful post-match gloom brought on by many of the defeats you have to question whether the fleeting moments of joy actually make up for all that.

    As I've mentioned before during this pandemic, the inability to attend matches over the last year has provided me with a bit of distance from the game and helped me weigh up how much I actually need it in my life. Watching footballers playing to empty stadiums has really brought home to me how faintly ridiculous it is that the performance of an ever-changing cast of players can impact so heavily on your sense of wellbeing.
    Maybe we should try being Newcastle United fans...
    "We know the people who have invested so far are simple fans." Vladimir Romanov - Scotsman 10th December 2012
    "Romanov was like a breath of fresh air - laced with cyanide." Me.

  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jones28 View Post
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    I think corona virus will have more of an impact than anything that happens this season, but if we finish fourth or third you really think we’ll see a drop off in season tickets? I don’t.
    The way that this season is going, third seems impossible. We’re much more likely to finish fifth than third.

    I expect a significant drop off in season tickets sales anyway, but dire football will ensure they fall even lower.

    However, if Jack miraculously turns this around and wins the Scottish Cup, I may be proved wrong.

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member Jones28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    The way that this season is going, third seems impossible. We’re much more likely to finish fifth than third.

    I expect a significant drop off in season tickets sales anyway, but dire football will ensure they fall even lower.

    However, if Jack miraculously turns this around and wins the Scottish Cup, I may be proved wrong.
    The way the seasons going is that we’ve had our worst run by far but are still well in the fight for 3rd and have an outside chance at 2nd.

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jones28 View Post
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    The way the seasons going is that we’ve had our worst run by far but are still well in the fight for 3rd and have an outside chance at 2nd.
    I admire your optimism, but I’m not quite convinced you actually believe any of that.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    I admire your optimism, but I’m not quite convinced you actually believe any of that.
    What he said is actually happening. What you have said might well happen but is going to take something a bit more extreme to end up that way.

    And you think he is the one that shouldn’t believe what he is saying?

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie View Post
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    He’s won the Scottish Premiership 5 times, Scottish Cup 4 times, League Cup once and the Scottish Championship with us as manager. That’s hardly bang average. He also won many of ‘big games’ with us, including Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts and in Europe.
    He’s won **** all without having notably the largest budget in the competition.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellbankhibby View Post
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    Having had time to think about
    The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m
    Quote Originally Posted by Caversham Green View Post
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    Lennon couldn't even get to the semi final with the best equipped club in the country.
    A very good point.

  15. #74
    First Team Regular JOD's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=The Modfather;6436609]My memory of Lennon at Hampden is getting the formation/personnel wrong from the start (McGeough at left midfield v Aberdeen), acknowledging it wasn’t working, making the right changes but having left too big a job to fully recover.
    Dinnae reright history. We were beaten when our cup winning legend Daz deflected the baw into the net. F. all to do wi tactics.

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellbankhibby View Post
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    Having had time to think about
    The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m
    It's possible that with a different manager or with different players that something different may have happened,yes that's possible...🙄

  17. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    He needs to win games though, it sounds simple but that's the only thing that will turn folk around now. There needs to be an improvement in performances and an improvement in form.
    The Jack Ross fan club can let us know when’s it time to start winning those games - or even some performances to match..

    St Johnstone semi final - 3-0 / play well for 20 mins (10th-30th min).
    Ross County league loss
    St Johnstone draw recently at ER
    Alloa late goal - mince performance
    Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals - everyone could see it coming.
    Semi Final v Hearts
    Sheep x 2. This season
    Sheep x1 last season
    Motherwell at home 2nd home game performance.
    Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
    Derby last season at ER - absolutely awful performance
    Livi at home - winning 4-0 away then 3-0 going on 5+ at home.
    BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

    Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

    His team selection in semi final ..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience (leader / club Captain) and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes supposedly 2nd in our assist. Mallan won the game against Alloa - not even on bench. Doidge not starting for all the crosses we put in.

    This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

    Not accepting means fans will voice opinions on this messageboard to hopefully educate others what’s happening. Fans will also stop spending ££ during a time when £ is already tight for some. Not accepting means drop in ST sales, worse HSL uptake and a serious missed opportunity for more £££ reaching the final and all the benefits a cup win brings - new fans / merchandise/ ST sales etc.
    Last edited by GreenCastle; 27-01-2021 at 07:42 AM.

  18. #77
    @hibs.net private member flash's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=JOD;6437475]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    My memory of Lennon at Hampden is getting the formation/personnel wrong from the start (McGeough at left midfield v Aberdeen), acknowledging it wasn’t working, making the right changes but having left too big a job to fully recover.
    Dinnae reright history. We were beaten when our cup winning legend Daz deflected the baw into the net. F. all to do wi tactics.
    Yeah it wasn't tactics. We didn't have to completely change our formation in the first half hour.

  19. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCastle View Post
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    The Jack Ross fan club can let us know when’s it time to start winning those games - or even some performances to match..

    St Johnstone semi final - 3-0 / play well for 20 mins (10th-30th min).
    Ross County league loss
    St Johnstone draw recently at ER
    Alloa late goal - mince performance
    Dundee Utd dropping points - late goals - everyone could see it coming.
    Semi Final v Hearts
    Sheep x 2. This season
    Sheep x1 last season
    Motherwell at home 2nd home game performance.
    Clinging on at home after being 3 up against Hamilton.
    Derby last season at ER - absolutely awful performance
    Livi at home - winning 4-0 away then 3-0 going on 5+ at home.
    BetFred cup group stages - some of the performances were awful ( I know we won the group but still issues)

    Add in the Drey Wright - the 55 / 50 min subs he regularly does, lack of goals at home (crap home record).

    His team selection in semi final ..Cadden and Irvine aren’t fit. Boyle doesn’t play through middle. Allan was never ready to come on. Why drop Gray from squad even for his experience (leader / club Captain) and influence. Gullan no minutes - Hallberg who has been fine no minutes supposedly 2nd in our assist. Mallan won the game against Alloa - not even on bench. Doidge not starting for all the crosses we put in.

    This is not good reading and I’ve lost faith in him and the players. Mentally weak and the manager has players that won’t stand up to him and definitely won’t stand up to others = constantly get bullied and lose important games.

    Not accepting means fans will voice opinions on this messageboard to hopefully educate others what’s happening. Fans will also stop spending ££ during a time when £ is already tight for some. Not accepting means drop in ST sales, worse HSL uptake and a serious missed opportunity for more £££ reaching the final and all the benefits a cup win brings - new fans / merchandise/ ST sales etc.
    3-0 win over Aberdeen
    Draws with old firm
    win at Hearts
    4-1 away at Livi
    3-0 away at Motherwell, 4-0 at Hamilton
    reaching 2 semi finals
    signing quality players
    being 4th, well in contention for 3rd
    Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point

  20. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    What he said is actually happening. What you have said might well happen but is going to take something a bit more extreme to end up that way.

    And you think he is the one that shouldn’t believe what he is saying?
    You think it’s going to take something more ‘extreme’ for Livi to catch us than it would us to catch Celtic?

  21. #80
    @hibs.net private member flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    3-0 win over Aberdeen
    Draws with old firm
    win at Hearts
    4-1 away at Livi
    3-0 away at Motherwell, 4-0 at Hamilton
    reaching 2 semi finals
    signing quality players
    being 4th, well in contention for 3rd
    Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point
    He will be gutted that you haven't been "educated" by his post.

  22. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellbankhibby View Post
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    Having had time to think about
    The two semi final defeats I can't help but think we would have won both of these ties if Lennon was still in charge. Whatever anyone thinks of him He had a winning m
    Played 3, lost 3.

    Now Pat Fenlon, there was the man we wanted. Played 2, won 2, schooled the great Craig Brown and even afford to give one of our opponents a 3 goal head start at half time.

    Absolute winner.
    Last edited by James Stephen; 27-01-2021 at 08:17 AM.

  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Stephen View Post
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    Played 3, lost 3.

    Now Pat Fenlon, there was the man we wanted. Played 2, won 2, schooled the great Craig Brown and even afford to give one oof our opponents a 3 goal head start at half time.

    Absolute winner.
    I think you have secured best post of the day already.

  24. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
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    I think you have secured best post of the day already.
    Why thank you 😁

  25. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    I've decided not to accept Saturdays result. What do I do now?
    Storm Hampden and demand the result is overturned.

  26. #85
    Coaching Staff Iain G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Stanton View Post
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    After the dust has settled... let's have yet another thread moaning about Jack Ross and comparing him to other managers. Smashing.
    How do you think John Blackley would have done?

  27. #86
    @hibs.net private member flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Stephen View Post
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    Why thank you 😁
    Nice to see a good point made with humour.

  28. #87
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    What he said is actually happening. What you have said might well happen but is going to take something a bit more extreme to end up that way.

    And you think he is the one that shouldn’t believe what he is saying?
    Celtic are six points ahead with two games in hand. Aberdeen are two in front, with a game in hand. Livi are eight points behind, with one in hand.

    Livi are on an incredible run of winnng form. In recent games we have been royally humped by Ross County, Livi and St Johnstone.

    Predicting that we are more likely to end up fifth rather than second or third, not that extreme given the circumstances ( the circumstances being that our manager is making increasingly erratic team selections, the team is playing dire football)

    Out of interest, what do you think is likely to happen at Hibs?

  29. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    3-0 win over Aberdeen - Good result - awful Dons team that day - he’s lost other 2 Aberdeen games.

    Draws with old firm - 2-2 against Rangers decent - even Drey Wright was good - both Celtic games missed opportunities- but didn’t include them above as too harsh.

    win at Hearts - up there with Aberdeen win but Stendal just came in and Hearts were useless. 2nd half we didn’t do much after 2-0 at half time.

    4-1 away at Livi - good win - Livi sacked manger / why the 3-0 change around since ?

    3-0 away at Motherwell - good win - like Livi / changed manager now for a reason.

    4-0 at Hamilton - bottom of the league for a reason

    reaching 2 semi finals - losing to main rivals in division below and 3-0 to a club with no where near our resources - don’t see that as a success.

    signing quality players - Nisbet and McGinn probably only players to get pass marks as consistent performers so far. Others have either been injured - not match fit or Wright for example not good enough.

    being 4th, well in contention for 3rd - also could easily end up 5th as Livi have improved and we have plateaued.

    Winning the league cup group with half the team in international duty without dropping a point - last minute Gray goal and losing goals / being behind to part time teams isn’t exactly anything I would be boasting about
    See above

  30. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
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    He will be gutted that you haven't been "educated" by his post.
    What even does this mean?

    Also don’t assume every poster on this site is a man - some would say that’s lacking education / poor judgement.

  31. #90
    @hibs.net private member flash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greencastle View Post
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    see above
    ffs.

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