I know nobody likes a 'bit of perspective' when we are all hurting, but the narrative that we do much worse than other clubs in cup competitions does not seem to stack up. Over the last 20 years, the stats since the millennium, excluding the Old Firm who have been dominant for decades, read:-
Scottish Cup Winners - Hibs, Hearts (2), Dundee Utd, ICT and St Johnstone. Most finals Hibs (4) and Hearts (4).
League Cup Winners - Hibs, Livingston, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Ross County, Kilmarnock. Most finals Hibs (3), Aberdeen (3) and Kilmarnock (3).
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Thread: Trophies
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24-01-2021 07:23 PM #1
Trophies
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24-01-2021 07:29 PM #2This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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24-01-2021 07:33 PM #3This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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24-01-2021 07:50 PM #4
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It is not so much the stats that concern me, more the way we go down to ' lower ' clubs. I don't expect us to beat the obvious Rangers Celtic all the time
but it is the feckless attitude that the players show when playing against eg St Johnstone that upsets me.
Most of the players have the ability to play better so what is the problem, I wonder ?
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24-01-2021 07:51 PM #5
In the last 50 years we have amassed 3 league cups and a Scottish Cup, given the fan base we could potentially draw upon that is not a great return. Its not a big pool we play in but given we have the disproportionate giants of the OF, every bit of silverware is to be cherished. Chances don't come around every day....to have chucked 2 real opportunities of reaching winnable finals within a few months of each other really, really stings.
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24-01-2021 08:05 PM #6
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The Scottish Cup Semi Final was bad . yesterday was indefensible . 3-0 from ******g St Johnstone.
We were the last team to win a cup before Celtic's dominance and we had a great chance to be the 1st ones after.
I think this years Scottish Cup will be cancelled due to the amount of no league , lower league team still in it .
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24-01-2021 08:13 PM #7This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I think that's why semi final defeats to Ayr, St Johnstone or Falkirk and final defeats to Ross County (albeit they were the Premiership team at the time) and Livingston are so damaging and hurtful. Celtic and Rangers can almost afford to write the odd one off because the next trophy is never too far away. Rangers maybe less so after the last decade. Games like last night are the ones we really should be expecting to win. Hearts fans have their Airdrie, ICT, Motherwell and St Mirren defeats amongst others to reflect upon and Aberdeen have lost to St Johnstone, Dundee Utd and Motherwell in semi finals in recent years. Of course you could probably list 10 semi finals and final Celtic and Rangers have lost without thinking but when 3 years without a trophy is a disaster that is quickly forgotten. When you have trophy gaps of 73 to 91 to 07 to 16 it becomes a far bigger deal.
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24-01-2021 08:37 PM #8This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I get the hurt but we are no different to any other club outside the old firm In fact, the stats since 2000 say we have a better record than Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd (i.e. - the 3 Scottish clubs closest to Hibs in terms of size).
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25-01-2021 03:08 PM #9
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24-01-2021 08:44 PM #10
This century, most finals lost:
1. Aberdeen, Hibs (5)
3. Celtic, Dundee Utd, Motherwell (4)
6. Dunfermline, Hearts, Rangers (3)
9. Falkirk, Kilmarnock (2)
This century, most semi finals lost:
1. Aberdeen, Hibs (10)
3. Dundee Utd (9)
4. Celtic, Hearts (8)
6. St Johnstone (7)
7. Rangers (5)
8. Falkirk, Inverness (4)
10. Ayr, Livingston, Motherwell, St Mirren (3)
This century, most finals lost to teams other than Celtic or Rangers:
1. Hibs (3 - only team to lose more than one)
2. Nine teams (1)
This century, most semi finals lost to teams other than Celtic or Rangers:
1. Hibs (8)
2. Aberdeen, Celtic (6)
4. Inverness, St Johnstone (4)
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24-01-2021 08:56 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Last edited by allmodcons; 24-01-2021 at 09:17 PM.
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24-01-2021 10:06 PM #12This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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25-01-2021 06:57 AM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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25-01-2021 08:44 AM #14
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Very interesting stats. Good that we're getting to Hampden but a really poor record once there.
In my lifetime supporting Hibs (1980's onwards) I've seen them win 3 trophies (same for Hearts) and that is a dire record for both teams. What will make it look even poorer is that either one of St Johnstone or Livingston will have won 2 trophies in the time period come the completion of the League Cup.
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25-01-2021 09:21 AM #15
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25-01-2021 12:05 PM #16
Some more stats for you....
In 2016, we amassed our 10th major trophy, 141 years after the club was formed.
We now stand equal 5th in the number of major trophies won.... alongside Queens Park, who last won the Scottish Cup in 1893.
Aberdeen are in 3rd place with 19 and Hearts in 4th, with 16.
Celtic are in 2nd place, with 111 trophies.
Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have ALL underachieved... going by populations of the city in which they're located and the potential support....but Hibs are easily the biggest underachievers of the three.
Isn't it great to be a Hi-Bee
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24-01-2021 07:29 PM #17
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Stop using great stats to back up your argument ;)
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24-01-2021 08:12 PM #18
What perspective are these stats meant to show?
7 finals and 5 lost.
Cup final losses to Ross County, Livi. Semi final defeats to St Johnstone (shot at Livi in the final), Falkirk (shot at ICT in the final), Dundee Utd, Dunfermline, Ayr, a championship Hearts
It's a ***** record for a club of our size and resources and we should be aiming for better instead of accepting failure as par for the course
Likely be years before we get a better shot at winning a trophy than what we've just thrown awayLast edited by mcohibs; 24-01-2021 at 08:14 PM.
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24-01-2021 08:28 PM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We are not the perennial losers some would have us believe. I'm not doubting our record could be better but it's still the best of the rest since 2000.
Who accepts failure as par for the course?
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24-01-2021 08:57 PM #20This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I don't see reaching semis or finals as a positive thing to compare against other clubs. It's the outcome of the games that is important and when you see the quality of opposition that we have lost to over those years, it makes for grim reading
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24-01-2021 09:01 PM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Just facts because im not defending we underachieve because for me we clearly do.
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24-01-2021 09:12 PM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The whole point of my opening post was to show that Hibs are no different to any other Club outside the old firm.
What pisses me off most when we lose a semi final or a final is the narrative (by a section of our own support) that we are perennial losers. If we are to be labelled perennial losers then the stats say that every other club outside of the old firm should carry that label too.
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24-01-2021 09:43 PM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The perennial losers tag applies to big games. We are perennial losers in big games. Of that there is no doubt. The stats quoted in this thread (both yours and other posters) prove that. Don't get me started on our derby record... our losers/bottlers tag is deserved. That's the cold hard truth unfortunatelyLast edited by mcohibs; 24-01-2021 at 09:48 PM.
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24-01-2021 08:39 PM #24
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Each and every one of those results were huge chances at adding to the trophy list. Imagine we'd converted 50% of the results above into cup wins? We'd be well on our way to making up for a sever lack of success in the past, instead we have fans of other clubs terming phrases like "hibsed it", embarrassing.
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24-01-2021 08:46 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Some of our support is a joke at times, buying in to the narrative that we are somehow perennial losers.
The fact you felt the need to mention that term says you've bought in to 'their' narrative this despite the fact that their cup record since 2000 is worse than ours.
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25-01-2021 09:31 AM #26
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Yes we get to more semi's and finals than others around us, but we have the same or fewer trophies to show for it. That shows we have a poor conversion rate.
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25-01-2021 09:36 AM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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25-01-2021 07:56 AM #29
I’m amazed that people count getting papped out of semi finals and finals as success for just getting there. Especially you get as easy a run as we did this season.
In years to come we aren’t going sit down and say “remember that time we got all the way to the semi final of the league cup”
***** attitude imo. There are absolutely no positives to take from our defeat on Saturday. None.
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25-01-2021 08:06 AM #30
The fact we weren’t able to traipse over there to watch that pish is the only one I can think of
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