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  1. #1
    First Team Regular ArmadaleHibs's Avatar
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    Here we go again

    Now before I start my rant and probably getting attacked by all corners I would like to start by saying I’m not in any way trying to defend the manager, the players or last nights result. I’m trying to put a little bit of perspective and rational thought into where we are as a team, supporters and as a club.

    Firstly I get that it’s easy to start a dozen threads wanting the manager sacked after a terrible result and performance, and to be fair there has been several of those terrible performances of late. We have sacked many managers in recent years with the exact same results, new guy comes in, pleases us for a while, then a string of poor results or in some cases a derby defeat and we want them hung. The fact is that constantly sacking and re-hiring is why we have never progressed as a club in 30+ years. We’re stuck in the same wheel we’ve been in for what feels like ever. It was only 5/6 weeks ago that some tabloids/press had our manager as favourites for the Celtic job. Majority our fans were saying beat it he’s ours and within a few games we want rid. I think we have brought in some terrific footballers to the club and I agree with most that the management may not be using these players tactically in the most progressive way but I also believe that the players we have need to step up and be counted for the manager.

    The players: last nights game could have once again been put to bed within the first 25 minutes if the players had taken the chances that fell to them. 3 goals up in that period would have certainly changed the outcome. This has happened now on several occasions this season and I don’t think we should attack JR as much as we do because the players have had these games well within their grasp and let us fans and the management down. You can lead a horse to water is an old saying. JR has put out strong teams that should in all honesty play some of the dross in our league of the park. These players have turned many a clear win into a defeat. I don’t know why time after time our players do this, regardless of the manager. It’s been the hibs way for years. Another sacking and re-hiring will not change this, it never has. All it does is keep the broken wheel spinning.

    Where do we go now, I don’t really know, but I’m not ready to throw the towel in yet with or manager or the players even though it can be more than frustrating at times. Our players are better than what they are giving and they need to step up and be counted and show their manager and their fans a bit more passion and a want to be at the club. Sacking managers is costly for the club as new managers come in at a cost and get rid of players and bring in new ones at a cost. It’s not sustainable at the moment.

    I don’t want or think JR should be sacked at this time

    GGTTH
    Last edited by ArmadaleHibs; 24-01-2021 at 10:00 AM.


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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmadaleHibs View Post
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    Now before I start my rant and probably getting attacked by all corners I would like to start by saying I’m not in any way trying to defend the manager, the players or last nights result. I’m trying to put a little bit of perspective and rational thought into where we are as a team, supporters and as a club.

    Firstly I get that it’s easy to start a dozen threads wanting the manager sacked after a terrible result and performance, and to be fair there has been several of those terrible performances of late. We have sacked many managers in recent years with the exact same results, new guy comes in, pleases us for a while, then a string of poor results or in some cases a derby defeat and we want them hung. The fact is that constantly sacking and re-hiring is why we have never progressed as a club in 30+ years. We’re stuck in the same wheel we’ve been in for what feels like ever. It was only 5/6 weeks ago that some tabloids/press had our manager as favourites for the Celtic job. Majority our fans were saying beat it he’s ours and within a few games we want rid. I think we have brought in some terrific footballers to the club and I agree with most that the management may not be using these players tactically in the most progressive way but I also believe that the players we have need to step up and be counted for the manager.

    The players: last nights game could have once again been put to bed within the first 25 minutes if the players had taken the chances that fell to them. 3 goals up in that period would have certainly changed the outcome. This has happened now on several occasions this season and I don’t think we should attack JR as much as we do because the players have had these games well within their grasp and let us fans and the management down. You can lead a horse to water is an old saying. JR has put out strong teams that should in all honesty play some of the dross in our league of the park. These players have turned many a clear win into a defeat. I don’t know why time after time our players do this, regardless of the manager. It’s been the hibs way for years. Another sacking and re-hiring will not change this, it never has. All it does is keep the broken wheel spinning.

    Where do we go now, I don’t really know, but I’m not ready to throw the towel in yet with or manager or the players even though it can be more than frustrating at times. Our players are better than what they are giving and they need to step up and be counted and show their manager and their fans a bit more passion and a want to be at the club. Sacking managers is costly for the club as new managers come in at a cost and get rid of players and bring in new ones at a cost. It’s not sustainable at the moment.

    I don’t want or think JR should be sacked at this time

    GGTTH
    Totally agree, we really do need a leader on the pitch, let's try finding one before yet another new manager.

  4. #3
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Ross isn’t going to be sacked we simply can’t afford to do that and he has just brought in new players and may bring in more before the window ends with some moving out
    However I think some fans are fed up with the line about we could of been a few goals up before they scored
    The fact is we have not been scoring freely of late Teams know that so they defend in numbers
    Ross has t found a way to utilise the team to get round that Thier third goal epitomised what we should be doing
    The defence was outdone by two crosses into the box great finishes but the two centre backs didn’t deal with the ball s in
    The second half was a disaster and Ross panicked and the players didn’t respond to changes as we were then run ragged and looked deflated
    The first half we have seen so many times and it’s not improved
    The second was sheer capitulation
    How we now respond v Rangers is anyone’s guess
    But am not sure now Ross knows how to utilise the players the get the best out them
    The second half was more painful than Hearts game
    We struggled to come back positively from thst result so am not expecting much in next few games
    We are left hoping Livi dont keep up Thier good form or we will soon be fifth
    Ross now has to respond to this and show he can now get us back to winning ways
    He was Angry with the players and rightly so
    Jackson Irvine when match fit showed he will be an asset but other clubs will start to monitor him and he looked she’ll shocked at the end
    Another chance of reaching a final blown
    It’s now down to Riss snd the Olayers to get it sorted


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  5. #4
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    Don't get me wrong, I am hurting like everyone else from yesterday, but that said, I agree with the OP you can't make wholesale changes on the basis of yesterdays performance. The positive that I took from the game was Jackson Irvine's dominant performance in midfield and Scott Allan coming on, the games against Ross County and Livi, we were over ran in midfield IMO this wont happen with these 2 in the team.

    As long as Ryan learn's from yesterday and gets back to basics, there is no reason why we can't have a really good end to the season, we have to show a little patience and make judgements at the end of the season not after we have a set back
    Last edited by 147lothian; 24-01-2021 at 10:40 AM.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmadaleHibs View Post
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    Now before I start my rant and probably getting attacked by all corners I would like to start by saying I’m not in any way trying to defend the manager, the players or last nights result. I’m trying to put a little bit of perspective and rational thought into where we are as a team, supporters and as a club.

    Firstly I get that it’s easy to start a dozen threads wanting the manager sacked after a terrible result and performance, and to be fair there has been several of those terrible performances of late. We have sacked many managers in recent years with the exact same results, new guy comes in, pleases us for a while, then a string of poor results or in some cases a derby defeat and we want them hung. The fact is that constantly sacking and re-hiring is why we have never progressed as a club in 30+ years. We’re stuck in the same wheel we’ve been in for what feels like ever. It was only 5/6 weeks ago that some tabloids/press had our manager as favourites for the Celtic job. Majority our fans were saying beat it he’s ours and within a few games we want rid. I think we have brought in some terrific footballers to the club and I agree with most that the management may not be using these players tactically in the most progressive way but I also believe that the players we have need to step up and be counted for the manager.

    The players: last nights game could have once again been put to bed within the first 25 minutes if the players had taken the chances that fell to them. 3 goals up in that period would have certainly changed the outcome. This has happened now on several occasions this season and I don’t think we should attack JR as much as we do because the players have had these games well within their grasp and let us fans and the management down. You can lead a horse to water is an old saying. JR has put out strong teams that should in all honesty play some of the dross in our league of the park. These players have turned many a clear win into a defeat. I don’t know why time after time our players do this, regardless of the manager. It’s been the hibs way for years. Another sacking and re-hiring will not change this, it never has. All it does is keep the broken wheel spinning.

    Where do we go now, I don’t really know, but I’m not ready to throw the towel in yet with or manager or the players even though it can be more than frustrating at times. Our players are better than what they are giving and they need to step up and be counted and show their manager and their fans a bit more passion and a want to be at the club. Sacking managers is costly for the club as new managers come in at a cost and get rid of players and bring in new ones at a cost. It’s not sustainable at the moment.

    I don’t want or think JR should be sacked at this time

    GGTTH
    Great post.

    And he won’t go, Ron Gordon didn’t promise this much progress so soon, he has bought a project... and I think Jack Ross is the correct man for a long term project.... sack him after a spell of bad results, that leaves us sitting 4th in the league and having made it to another semi final... would be foolish. If we were fighting relegation and had been knocked out in the group stages then that’s a different story.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member Stuart93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leith lynx View Post
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    Totally agree, we really do need a leader on the pitch, let's try finding one before yet another new manager.
    He’s now had three windows to sign a leader, had a lot of money chucked in his direction from the owner and he’s still not done it.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member Stuart93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Great post.

    And he won’t go, Ron Gordon didn’t promise this much progress so soon, he has bought a project... and I think Jack Ross is the correct man for a long term project.... sack him after a spell of bad results, that leaves us sitting 4th in the league and having made it to another semi final... would be foolish. If we were fighting relegation and had been knocked out in the group stages then that’s a different story.
    I’m sick of seeing getting to last nights semi as some kind of achievement. Look at our route to get there?

    We’ve just been ****ing pumped by st J in a semi final. It’s absolutely no achievement getting there.

  9. #8
    Rome wasn't built in a day. Ross should be given till end of season at very least.

    Its just the world we live in now. Patience has been diminished by technology and social media coverts molehills into mountains.

    Ross isn't perfect. No manager hibs are going to get is. Last night was rough but we'll go again.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Great post.

    And he won’t go, Ron Gordon didn’t promise this much progress so soon, he has bought a project... and I think Jack Ross is the correct man for a long term project.... sack him after a spell of bad results, that leaves us sitting 4th in the league and having made it to another semi final... would be foolish. If we were fighting relegation and had been knocked out in the group stages then that’s a different story.
    I agree he won’t be sacked. But even if Ross is here for the long term he’s not going to get the opportunities for success he’s had this year.

    Even when results were going well at the start of the season people were asking questions. It always seemed quite obvious that we couldn’t sustain the results with the way we were playing. Gets you by in some games, if we score first, but I have no idea what kind of team he’s trying to build.

  11. #10
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    First Premiership side we play and boom we are out. Did we beat any Premiership sides to reach Scottish Cup Semi? Jack Ross is out his depth.

  12. #11
    Testimonial Due gbhibby's Avatar
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    The problem with the team is that they do not work hard enough to get the ball back when we do not have the ball. The number of times we have our main attacker being frustrated and coming back into midfield to try and win the ball.
    There seems to be no plan B if we go behind in a game. We are too predictable to play against. Look how hard The Rangers work when they do not have the ball that is why they are top of the league the work ethic of the team needs to change. I have been to so many semi finals where we are expected to romp it so you get used to what happened yesterday.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    I agree he won’t be sacked. But even if Ross is here for the long term he’s not going to get the opportunities for success he’s had this year.

    Even when results were going well at the start of the season people were asking questions. It always seemed quite obvious that we couldn’t sustain the results with the way we were playing. Gets you by in some games, if we score first, but I have no idea what kind of team he’s trying to build.
    You have no idea if he'll get another chance at success. Stubbs lost to county and then beat rangers.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by gbhibby View Post
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    The problem with the team is that they do not work hard enough to get the ball back when we do not have the ball. The number of times we have our main attacker being frustrated and coming back into midfield to try and win the ball.
    There seems to be no plan B if we go behind in a game. We are too predictable to play against. Look how hard The Rangers work when they do not have the ball that is why they are top of the league the work ethic of the team needs to change. I have been to so many semi finals where we are expected to romp it so you get used to what happened yesterday.
    The problem with the team is they're a perfect reflection of the manager. Dull, uninspiring and just not good enough.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Allez Hibs View Post
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    First Premiership side we play and boom we are out. Did we beat any Premiership sides to reach Scottish Cup Semi? Jack Ross is out his depth.
    So, in your opinion, who should be appointed that would not be "out of his depth".

  16. #15
    Jack Ross is ticking all the right boxes to force Gordon to make a change imo.
    Style of play
    Big results
    Next big one will be the inevitable drop in season ticket, Ross fault or not that’s what will spark a change.

    But yes, Ross out for me. Passionless.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    You have no idea if he'll get another chance at success. Stubbs lost to county and then beat rangers.
    We won’t be in the last four of a cup competition minus both the big two again. We won’t get as good an opportunity to win a trophy.

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Stuart93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theonlywayisup View Post
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    So, in your opinion, who should be appointed that would not be "out of his depth".
    That’s not our job though. It’s them at the club who’re paid to do so.

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Mikey_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart93 View Post
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    I’m sick of seeing getting to last nights semi as some kind of achievement. Look at our route to get there?

    We’ve just been ****ing pumped by st J in a semi final. It’s absolutely no achievement getting there.
    I think thats a fair point, yesterday was the first time we have faced a premier league opponent in a cup competition under Ross and while the phrase “you can only beat whats in front of you” is true: is it really something for him to be majorly applauded for considering the opposition?

    With regards to the OP i agree the players take a large if not equal share of the blame for yesterday. Ross is also culpable for a lot of the failings yesterday and while it is seen as a positive that we have flexibility to change formations during matches etc I think it is also evidence that he doesn’t know our best XI or system. Im concerned also about the leadership and motivation both on the park and in management. I can’t escape from the fact that when we concede the first goal the majority of the time thats the game done.

    With us sitting in 4th its probably hard to make a concrete case for Ross to go in the eyes of the board. Im not even sure if I want him gone. Covid hasn’t helped but if we continue with the no thrills, steady eddy stuff that appears to have gathered under Ross then the fans will drift away and we may find it hard to get them back.

    You mention that when the rumours with JR going to Celtic appeared that fans told them to beat it and that he was ours. My main memory of it was that a lot of people wouldn’t have gave a toss either way if he stayed or went, and thats hardly a healthy situation.

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Ross is a lucky boy that there are no fans in the ground right now as the heat he should be feeling is absolutely nothing like the heat he will be feeling.

    A few angry posts on a message board is not as visceral as noise and anger in a stadium or a drop off in attendance.

    As a rule, I hate sacking managers. It was quite funny seeing Alex Miller on the telly a few weeks ago because he remains the only Hibs manager I’ve ever demonstrated or chanted that I wanted removed from position. All the others I’ve accepted needed to go after the event but wasn’t actually demanding their removal.

    And that’s where I find myself with Ross. I’m unlikely to find myself howling on a plaza any time soon or throwing any fences. But if I found out tomorrow he was gone I wouldn’t be upset.

    The calm demeanour doesn’t bother me - in fact, I quite like that over windmilling arms and pointless expletive laden rants. It’s the nuts and bolts of football I have an issue with - dull football, tactical weakness (at times), peculiar decision making, no real feeling that we’re building something in spite of the fact that he’s been quite handsomely backed.

    Deep down there is the “I reckon someone could get more out of this group of players” feeling that is probably the most damning.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    We won’t be in the last four of a cup competition minus both the big two again. We won’t get as good an opportunity to win a trophy.
    That’s a bit dramatic.

    There’s 2 trophies every year and pretty much anything can happen.

    To say that in the entire future of football there won’t be another set of semi finals without the Old Firm is just stupid.

    We also knew playing a non Old Firm team was going to be difficult too.

    Old Firm teams also lose cup games. We beat one of them 5 years ago. After Ross County and Falkirk games I wasn’t sitting thinking that team was going to be winning the game.

    It is disappointing that we didn’t take the chances in the semi this year but we are building a team just now that will be in more of them. To say we are now done forever is just ridiculous.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmadaleHibs View Post
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    Now before I start my rant and probably getting attacked by all corners I would like to start by saying I’m not in any way trying to defend the manager, the players or last nights result. I’m trying to put a little bit of perspective and rational thought into where we are as a team, supporters and as a club.

    Firstly I get that it’s easy to start a dozen threads wanting the manager sacked after a terrible result and performance, and to be fair there has been several of those terrible performances of late. We have sacked many managers in recent years with the exact same results, new guy comes in, pleases us for a while, then a string of poor results or in some cases a derby defeat and we want them hung. The fact is that constantly sacking and re-hiring is why we have never progressed as a club in 30+ years. We’re stuck in the same wheel we’ve been in for what feels like ever. It was only 5/6 weeks ago that some tabloids/press had our manager as favourites for the Celtic job. Majority our fans were saying beat it he’s ours and within a few games we want rid. I think we have brought in some terrific footballers to the club and I agree with most that the management may not be using these players tactically in the most progressive way but I also believe that the players we have need to step up and be counted for the manager.

    The players: last nights game could have once again been put to bed within the first 25 minutes if the players had taken the chances that fell to them. 3 goals up in that period would have certainly changed the outcome. This has happened now on several occasions this season and I don’t think we should attack JR as much as we do because the players have had these games well within their grasp and let us fans and the management down. You can lead a horse to water is an old saying. JR has put out strong teams that should in all honesty play some of the dross in our league of the park. These players have turned many a clear win into a defeat. I don’t know why time after time our players do this, regardless of the manager. It’s been the hibs way for years. Another sacking and re-hiring will not change this, it never has. All it does is keep the broken wheel spinning.

    Where do we go now, I don’t really know, but I’m not ready to throw the towel in yet with or manager or the players even though it can be more than frustrating at times. Our players are better than what they are giving and they need to step up and be counted and show their manager and their fans a bit more passion and a want to be at the club. Sacking managers is costly for the club as new managers come in at a cost and get rid of players and bring in new ones at a cost. It’s not sustainable at the moment.

    I don’t want or think JR should be sacked at this time

    GGTTH
    I agree with you. We have had 2 bad cup defeats, are in a poor run of form but 4th in the league suggests no snap decisions are required.. Our neighbours hounded out their manager after a bad [from their viewpoint] cup defeat when they 2nd in the league and it didn't get them very far.
    Last edited by Is It On....; 24-01-2021 at 11:26 AM.

  23. #22
    Testimonial Due Chorley Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart93 View Post
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    I’m sick of seeing getting to last nights semi as some kind of achievement. Look at our route to get there?

    We’ve just been ****ing pumped by st J in a semi final. It’s absolutely no achievement getting there.
    Correct!

    To reach two semi-finals we've had to play Dundee Utd, BSC Glasgow, Inverness, Alloa, Dundee, Brora Rangers, Cove Rangers, Arbroath and Forfar. Not a single top flight side at the time.

    Then handed two semi-finals we're favourites for too, but as soon as we meet anyone near our level we capitulate.

    To class those two runs as success shows the mindset amongst much of our own support, never mind the club.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    We won’t be in the last four of a cup competition minus both the big two again. We won’t get as good an opportunity to win a trophy.
    You've no idea if that is true. In these times especially, anything is possible. It also happened in 2007, 2012 for us, and multiple other times recently in Scotland.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Chorley Hibee View Post
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    Correct!

    To reach two semi-finals we've had to play Dundee Utd, BSC Glasgow, Inverness, Alloa, Dundee, Brora Rangers, Cove Rangers, Arbroath and Forfar. Not a single top flight side at the time.

    Then handed two semi-finals we're favourites for too, but as soon as we meet anyone near our level we capitulate.

    To class those two runs as success shows the mindset amongst much of our own support, never mind the club.
    In 2004 we beat Rangers and Celtic. Did that make the Livi loss any better? Couldn't give a **** who we play. Reaching semis is a positive thing.

  26. #25
    Testimonial Due Chorley Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    In 2004 we beat Rangers and Celtic. Did that make the Livi loss any better? Couldn't give a **** who we play. Reaching semis is a positive thing.
    Not when we repeatedly lose them to inferior opposition it isn't.

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    That’s a bit dramatic.

    There’s 2 trophies every year and pretty much anything can happen.

    To say that in the entire future of football there won’t be another set of semi finals without the Old Firm is just stupid.

    We also knew playing a non Old Firm team was going to be difficult too.

    Old Firm teams also lose cup games. We beat one of them 5 years ago. After Ross County and Falkirk games I wasn’t sitting thinking that team was going to be winning the game.

    It is disappointing that we didn’t take the chances in the semi this year but we are building a team just now that will be in more of them. To say we are now done forever is just ridiculous.
    I’m guessing he means during JR’s time with us.

    It’s a pretty safe bet I’d say!

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    I’m guessing he means during JR’s time with us.

    It’s a pretty safe bet I’d say!
    That’s not what he said. He said it will never happen again and we will never have a better chance of winning a trophy.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    You've no idea if that is true. In these times especially, anything is possible. It also happened in 2007, 2012 for us, and multiple other times recently in Scotland.
    A more accurate statement would probably have been Jack Ross is highly unlikely to get into the last 4 of a cup as Hibs manager without any of the 4 sides that spend more than us.

    He won’t get an opportunity like that again before he inevitably leaves Hibs over the next couple of years, of that I’m fairly certain.

  30. #29
    Testimonial Due gbhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    Ross is a lucky boy that there are no fans in the ground right now as the heat he should be feeling is absolutely nothing like the heat he will be feeling.

    A few angry posts on a message board is not as visceral as noise and anger in a stadium or a drop off in attendance.

    As a rule, I hate sacking managers. It was quite funny seeing Alex Miller on the telly a few weeks ago because he remains the only Hibs manager I’ve ever demonstrated or chanted that I wanted removed from position. All the others I’ve accepted needed to go after the event but wasn’t actually demanding their removal.

    And that’s where I find myself with Ross. I’m unlikely to find myself howling on a plaza any time soon or throwing any fences. But if I found out tomorrow he was gone I wouldn’t be upset.

    The calm demeanour doesn’t bother me - in fact, I quite like that over windmilling arms and pointless expletive laden rants. It’s the nuts and bolts of football I have an issue with - dull football, tactical weakness (at times), peculiar decision making, no real feeling that we’re building something in spite of the fact that he’s been quite handsomely backed.

    Deep down there is the “I reckon someone could get more out of this group of players” feeling that is probably the most damning.
    Alex Millers brand of football was far more exciting than what we are watching now!

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    That’s a bit dramatic.

    There’s 2 trophies every year and pretty much anything can happen.

    To say that in the entire future of football there won’t be another set of semi finals without the Old Firm is just stupid.

    We also knew playing a non Old Firm team was going to be difficult too.

    Old Firm teams also lose cup games. We beat one of them 5 years ago. After Ross County and Falkirk games I wasn’t sitting thinking that team was going to be winning the game.

    It is disappointing that we didn’t take the chances in the semi this year but we are building a team just now that will be in more of them. To say we are now done forever is just ridiculous.
    After Livi, Ross County and last night, do you honestly see the manager building a team to succeed?

    Of course Hibs will get to more semi finals but I'd like to have a team that looks capable of winning them, especially against poor opposition.

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