Skelped

[The Harp Awakes]

In ~3 weeks we've been skelped out of the park (0-8) by 3 clubs with a fraction of our playing budget, 2 of which have rookie Managers.

We've had some decent results in the league this season and getting beaten regularly by so called lesser teams is certainly something we've seen plenty of over the years.

However, Martindale of Livingston said in his aftermatch interview that he'd watched a lot Hibs recently and they did their homework. Clearly Yogi and Davidson did the same.

Just now our Manager is getting outthought and our players are getting outfaught. Tonight's capitulation in the 2nd half is right up there with some of the most spineless performances I've seen in my time. Something has gone badly wrong. What is it?

[chrisski33]

No leadership on the pitch. The manager.

[Since452]

Easy to play against. Let us dominate knowing we won't take our chances. Score and we struggle to come back.

[Steve20]

We have a manager that has no plan B when things are going wrong. And to be honest, plan A isn’t exactly good.

We’ve been embarrassed in two semi finals and still people defend him on the forums. Honestly, this club needs to stop accepting failure.

[green day]

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We have a manager that has no plan B when things are going wrong. And to be honest, plan A isn’t exactly good.

We’ve been embarrassed in two semi finals and still people defend him on the forums. Honestly, this club needs to stop accepting failure.

We have a new owner now and I suspect that - in a normal year - Ross would be binned. Unfortunately, Ron may be thousands of miles away and we dont have a CEO to boot out Ross and Mathie.

Jack Ross has been out thought by 3 guys who are fairly run of the mill coaches - that is worrying.

I cant really understand how we can work all week in training and still think these formations are a good idea? Or that playing Cadden was sensible or playing one up......again......would work?

That tells me he hasnt got a clue and needs binned.

[Allant1981]

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We have a manager that has no plan B when things are going wrong. And to be honest, plan A isn’t exactly good.

We’ve been embarrassed in two semi finals and still people defend him on the forums. Honestly, this club needs to stop accepting failure.

He has changed formation a few times this season when needed so clearly does have a plan B, we played well in the 1st half(apart from the goal) and the game should have been out of their reach. The players that started were good enough to win and they need to take responsibility, not every defeat is the fault of the manager

[Allant1981]

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We have a new owner now and I suspect that - in a normal year - Ross would be binned. Unfortunately, Ron may be thousands of miles away and we dont have a CEO to boot out Ross and Mathie.

Jack Ross has been out thought by 3 guys who are fairly run of the mill coaches - that is worrying.

I cant really understand how we can work all week in training and still think these formations are a good idea? Or that playing Cadden was sensible or playing one up......again......would work?

That tells me he hasnt got a clue and needs binned.

Out thought? 2 goals were from free kicks that should have been defended a lot better. How does a manager stop that from happening? He can't account for his players not doing the basics

[Hibs90]

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He has changed formation a few times this season when needed so clearly does have a plan B, we played well in the 1st half(apart from the goal) and the game should have been out of their reach. The players that started were good enough to win and they need to take responsibility, not every defeat is the fault of the manager

Every defeat in a big game is the fault of the manager.

Can’t believe people are still defending him.

[Allant1981]

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Every defeat in a big game is the fault of the manager.

Can’t believe people are still defending him.

You do realise not every defeat in a game of football is the fault of the manager, those players were more than good enough to win yesterday, individual mistakes again cost us

[green day]

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Out thought? 2 goals were from free kicks that should have been defended a lot better. How does a manager stop that from happening? He can't account for his players not doing the basics

I said he had been out thought by 3 run of the mill managers - Martindale and Yogi did their homework on Hibs, knew we were poor at chance conversion and soft in midfield and defence - and set up to take advantage. Same happened yesterday with Davidson.

Yep, we lost two poor goals yesterday but those defenders will still be in place next week - why? Because we have a limited number of defenders, but loads of (crocked or crap) midfielders.

In summary, there is no pressure on the defence to up its game, our midfield formation is a complete lottery every match, and Ross still persists with Nisbet on his own up front which has never - repeat - never worked.

So, you can put this down to "player not doing the basics" and you will be right - but when the same thing happens over and over and over again, that is the managers job to resolve.

At the risk of repeating myself, when the "options" to put pressure on our soft defence are David Gray and Darren Macgregor, you know you are thin on the ground.

[Allant1981]

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I said he had been out thought by 3 run of the mill managers - Martindale and Yogi did their homework on Hibs, knew we were poor at chance conversion and soft in midfield and defence - and set up to take advantage. Same happened yesterday with Davidson.

Yep, we lost two poor goals yesterday but those defenders will still be in place next week - why? Because we have a limited number of defenders, but loads of (crocked or crap) midfielders.

In summary, there is no pressure on the defence to up its game, our midfield formation is a complete lottery every match, and Ross still persists with Nisbet on his own up front which has never - repeat - never worked.

So, you can put this down to "player not doing the basics" and you will be right - but when the same thing happens over and over and over again, that is the managers job to resolve.

At the risk of repeating myself, when the "options" to put pressure on our soft defence are David Gray and Darren Macgregor, you know you are thin on the ground.

I agree we have a limited amount of defenders and that should be a priority, not sure it will be though but we can hope. Again though how does a manger stop individual errors once the game has started, they could practice defending set pieces all week in training and look great, you can never account for them switching off. Ultimately though it is the manager that takes the flack for the players more often than not. Hopefully they get the finger out soon

[OstKurve Hibs]

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Out thought? 2 goals were from free kicks that should have been defended a lot better. How does a manager stop that from happening? He can't account for his players not doing the basics

He stops that by gettin rid of the dross error prone centre backs and gettin in ones that know what they're doing

[BlackSheep]

How can teams plan for us to not take chances!!! That’s one of the most ridiculous things I think I’ve ever read!!

The setup was basically 343... so how is that Nisbet up on his own? If anything I would have said having Boyle and Murphy up with him probably cancelled Nisbet out of the game at times...

The biggest misjudgment was playing Cadden instead of Boyle. He tried something slightly different given the squad available and it didn’t come off.... that same starting lineup will likely pump teams once the new players have gotten up to speed... Ross took a bit of a risk on that starting lineup and formation and it didn’t come off... I’m as disappointed at the next fan but baying for blood isn’t the right reaction.

Slightly tweak that team to a 352 and we would’ve probably won last night.
Doidge and Nisbet up top with Doig and Boyle wide... play Murphy behind the strikers with Irvine and Gogic in the CM.

[lucky]

We were well beat yesterday. But goals change games. The failure to covert chances when were on top is what cost us. If Hibs had taken the chances and went in 3-1/3-0 at half time then we wouldn’t be moaning but we didn’t and when we came under pressure our defence buckled. I also think Rocky should do better for the second goal, a keeper shouldn’t be losing a header from 16 yards out. Overall yesterday is the worst performance form a Hibs side at Hampden since 2012.

[Smartie]

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How can teams plan for us to not take chances!!! That’s one of the most ridiculous things I think I’ve ever read!!

The setup was basically 343... so how is that Nisbet up on his own?

We actually played well when we were playing the 343 and it was only not taking chances and the 2 set pieces that had let us down.

What happened tactically from the moment we lost the second goal is another matter altogether...

[BlackSheep]

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We actually played well when we were playing the 343 and it was only not taking chances and the 2 set pieces that had let us down.

What happened tactically from the moment we lost the second goal is another matter altogether...

Agreed we had them on the ropes with the 343... but it was the managers fault that Murphy chose to be cute with his finish rather than put the laces through it.

After the second goal it went to pot really.... But I don’t feel that it was the tactics more how the players reacted that let us down.

[green day]

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How can teams plan for us to not take chances!!! That’s one of the most ridiculous things I think I’ve ever read!!

The setup was basically 343... so how is that Nisbet up on his own?

You are clearly having a go at me, so to explain -

Managers will have looked at our chances to conversion stats and realise that we are in a slump.

IMO, part of the reason for this is not playing 2 strikers up front (Doidge and Nisbet) in order to accomodate other players. As for 343, we didnt play 3 strikers yesterday, Murphy and Boyle are not natural foils for Nisbet.

Martindale, Yogi and now Davidson have worked out (and it wasnt exactly a tricky deduction) that Hibs at the moment are struggling to convert chances and if you soak up the half chances we do make, and hit us on the break we will fold.

If you dont think that was part of their match planning then I am sorry, but we need to disagree.

[BlackSheep]

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We were well beat yesterday. But goals change games. The failure to covert chances when were on top is what cost us. If Hibs had taken the chances and went in 3-1/3-0 at half time then we wouldn’t be moaning but we didn’t and when we came under pressure our defence buckled. I also think Rocky should do better for the second goal, a keeper shouldn’t be losing a header from 16 yards out. Overall yesterday is the worst performance form a Hibs side at Hampden since 2012.

I haven’t seen anyone criticise Murphy’s poor positioning for the first either... it went in waist high at the post... a yard or less from where he was standing... he went to sleep at that corner, probably still thinking bout his missed chances, and stepped away from the post he was defending... had he stayed on it the easily could’ve cheated the ball away.

[BlackSheep]

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You are clearly having a go at me, so to explain -

Managers will have looked at our chances to conversion stats and realise that we are in a slump.

IMO, part of the reason for this is not playing 2 strikers up front (Doidge and Nisbet) in order to accomodate other players. As for 343, we didnt play 3 strikers yesterday, Murphy and Boyle are not natural foils for Nisbet.

Martindale, Yogi and now Davidson have worked out (and it wasnt exactly a tricky deduction) that Hibs at the moment are struggling to convert chances and if you soak up the half chances we do make, and hit us on the break we will fold.

If you dont think that was part of their match planning then I am sorry, but we need to disagree.

I see your reasoning there but I disagree that a 343 consists of 3 strikers... it’s almost always 1 central striker with 2 wider forwards... but certainly not a lone striker role in there.

And as for stats... they don’t make it a dead cert that our players will not finish chances... so to suggest that our poor conversion rate is a used tactic by opposing managers is what bemuses me... are you suggesting these managers say to the players in the dressing room:-

“Right lads here’s the tactics... hibs will create lots of chances but they won’t score them so we should be good today, all we need is that one goal and we can beat them”

I’m sure this would have been said but not in the context of tactics more as a way to fire up the players!

[green day]

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I see your reasoning there but I disagree that a 343 consists of 3 strikers... it’s almost always 1 central striker with 2 wider forwards... but certainly not a lone striker role in there.

And as for stats... they don’t make it a dead cert that our players will not finish chances... so to suggest that our poor conversion rate is a used tactic by opposing manager us is what bemuses me... are you suggesting these managers say to the players in the dressing room:-

“Right lads here’s the tactics... hibs will create lots of chances but they won’t score them so we should be good today, all we need is that one goal and we can beat them”

I’m sure this would have been said but not in the context of tactics more as a way to fire up the players!

Have you watched how teams play against us recently?

Yesterday was almost the same as Ross County - we started looking good, failed to convert, lost a goal and then shat the bed..............

[BlackSheep]

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Have you watched how teams play against us recently?

Yesterday was almost the same as Ross County - we started looking good, failed to convert, lost a goal and then shat the bed..............

Yes.... but that’s not a tactic.... it’s how a game plays out.... absolutely nothing to do with planning!!!

It’s like you are suggesting teams play us hoping we don’t finish our chances!!! That’s not something that can be accounted for... it just isn’t! While it has been a regular occurrence for us recently it takes one game where we do finish our chances to turn those fortunes around.... no manager in their right mind would say they set up hoping we were pish in front of goal!

If what you are suggesting is true then St Johnstone knew Murphy was missing those 2 chances before he did.

[green day]

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Yes.... but that’s not a tactic.... it’s how a game plays out.... absolutely nothing to do with planning!!!

It’s like you are suggesting teams play us hoping we don’t finish our chances!!! That’s not something that can be accounted for... it just isn’t! While it has been a regular occurrence for us recently it takes one game where we do finish our chances to turn those fortunes around.... no manager in their right mind would say they set up hoping we were pish in front of goal!

They dont need to hope we are pish in front of goal, we have lost 8 goals to footballing giants like Livi, Ross County and St Johnstone and scored zero in return.

I am 100% sure they tell their guys to soak up our "pressure", then hit us on the break. Martindale as good as said it in his post match interview where he also said they knew we were slow at CH and they worked on balls over the back.

I have no idea what we work on.........

[BlackSheep]

Again I agree with what you are saying but I think you are confusing soaking up pressure with purposely planning pre match that we will not score... it simply cannot happen that way.

Yes, the opponents can and will try to soak up pressure, but that requires teams defences and GK to keep them in the game... I wouldn’t say that’s what’s happened lately... Murphy missed those chances last night... they weren’t good saves or stops by defenders... Irvines header hit the bar/post... it wasn’t down to good defending or soaking up pressure... it was literally dumb luck! Had any of these chance been converted or gone in then the game is different... not down to pre planning on the oppositions part.

For the most part after they went ahead St Johnstone defended better, but until then they did not tactically outwit us.

[Key West]

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Again I agree with what you are saying but I think you are confusing soaking up pressure with purposely planning pre match we will not score... it simply cannot happen that way.

Yes, the opponents can and will try to soak up pressure, but that requires teams defences and GK to keep them in the game... I wouldn’t say that’s what’s happened lately... Murphy missed those chances last night... they weren’t good saves or stops by defenders... Irvines header hit the bar/post... it wasn’t down to good defending or soaking up pressure... it was literally dumb luck! Had any of these chance been converted or gone in then the game is different... not down to pre planning on the oppositions part.

For the most part after they went ahead St Johnstone defended better, but until then they did not tactically outwit us.

I agree that it was not down to good defending we hit the woodwork twice and Murphy had two great chances to score but from a tactical point of view they exposed our glaring weaknesses on one side of the pitch with Rooney and Conway, we were incapable of addressing this problem as we have been for more than a couple of seasons.

[Trim The Barber]

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You do realise not every defeat in a game of football is the fault of the manager, those players were more than good enough to win yesterday, individual mistakes again cost us

True. However, last night was a brilliant opportunity missed and another game lost when it mattered to the club and fans. The point is the manager should have had the team well and truly fired up for this game particularly after the lukewarm performance in the SC semi-final against Hearts. Attitude, energy and tactics all wrong. We should have been going into this game with with the intention of blowing St.Johnstone ooff the park from kick-off.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm nowhere near being a football expert but on the evidence of recent games I've watched us play in I think I've worked out that if you double up on and foul Boyle whether we play to his strengths or not he disappears.

Press us through the middle, the famous high press, and we crumble, all our defending seems to be too deep, last ditch and panicky.

There's a leadership void, no one takes a game by the scruff of the neck and seems to organise or rally us when we do go behind.

I don't think Ross is getting to pick his best midfield due to injuries but we've too many players there anyway and if they're the standard we've set then we really are a mid to low table side who will make semi finals and the odd final going forward but will always fail against smaller teams with much smaller budgets with a coaching team who outsmart us.

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[BlackSheep]

I think that Irvine may play a huge part in regaining some of that drive and passion... the Aussies always seem to be good at that. (Boyle isn’t a real Aussie lol).

[where'stheslope]

Said it another thread, we need a really good central midfielder who can send out passes to players running!
The problem is they don't come cheap and are hard to find, and at the moment cheap is better than nothing!!!

[Allant1981]

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Said it another thread, we need a really good central midfielder who can send out passes to players running!
The problem is they don't come cheap and are hard to find, and at the moment cheap is better than nothing!!!

Irvine and more so Allan could be those players, it's trying to get them match fit while not playing them to much that will be the problem

[147lothian]

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I think that Irvine may play a huge part in regaining some of that drive and passion... the Aussies always seem to be good at that. (Boyle isn’t a real Aussie lol).

Hear hear!