Academy To Close? (Mathie says no)

[Dashing Bob S]

Apparently Jim Goodwin just said at the St Mirren AGM on zoom tonight that Hibs are closing the academy at East Mains and laying off a lot of young players. The guy who told me is reliable but if it is the case I’m astonished Goodwin has heard this.

[hibbyfraelibby]

P!$# of the first order.

[Dashing Bob S]

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P!$# of the first order.

I kind of thought so too. But it was definitely mentioned at the meeting, apparently 2-3 times by JG. Very strange.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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I kind of thought so too. But it was definitely mentioned at the meeting, apparently 2-3 times by JG. Very strange.

Maybe he means we aren't in for any of his players this window as we pretty much use St. Mirren as an extension of our academy

[Pretty Boy]

I've no idea if what Goodwin says is true.

It does seem highly probable that Hibs will be looking at further ways to cut costs in the coming months though. We are going to go a whole season without a single walk up fan, the PPV income won't touch the sides of that shortfall. The people at the club are also far from stupid. The ST campaign would normally be launching in the next 6-8 weeks and they will know sales will be down at least until people have some clarity on whether they will be seeing any live football next season. Like any business Hibs will be seeing that as customers personal finances take a hit so does their ability to spend money or make quick financial decisions.

Hibs focus will be on the 1st team. That is what drives income for the club, both from fans and from commercial partnerships. The sad fact of the matter is almost nothing else is sacred.

[Since452]

Probably thinks they'll have a better chance against St Johnstone than Hibs in the final. Stirring the pot.

[Smartie]

St Mirren ARE our academy.

[Magpie]

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St Mirren ARE our academy.

😂

[Jones28]

If, and it’s a very big if, it’s surely a mothballing situation until things stabilise again?

[andudare2]

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If, and it’s a very big if, it’s surely a mothballing situation until things stabilise again?

Exactly, it's just the same situation as first lockdown. I assume that all age groups will be the same as the 2006,s in being given video for fitness and coaching to help while this lockdown is ongoing.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If true I think it’s sad that (unless those already aware of the situation have been told) folks may find out through a rival teams manager chatting on an AGM Zoom call. Just how should he know about our affairs (unless of course he’s been approached by representatives perhaps?)

[bingo70]

Won’t be popular but I think it makes sense to shut it down.

In every youth team the chances of anyone making the breakthrough are so slim, this can mean keeping 8 or 9 players on so the 2 or 3 we think can make it have team mates to play with. On top of that the landscape of youth football has changed and if we do bring through a particularly special player the bigger clubs can just take them for a relatively small amount of money.

I would do away with the academy and look to pick up good 17 and 18 year olds released by the biggest clubs.

I think that’s what Brentford did and to me it makes complete sense.

[04Sauzee]

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Won’t be popular but I think it makes sense to shut it down.

In every youth team the chances of anyone making the breakthrough are so slim, this can mean keeping 8 or 9 players on so the 2 or 3 we think can make it have team mates to play with. On top of that the landscape of youth football has changed and if we do bring through a particularly special player the bigger clubs can just take them for a relatively small amount of money.

I would do away with the academy and look to pick up good 17 and 18 year olds released by the biggest clubs.

I think that’s what Brentford did and to me it makes complete sense.

This is Brentfords model

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts

[bingo70]

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This is Brentfords model

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts

To be honest I’m too lazy to read that but I remember watching a decent documentary about it on BT Sport.

The guy from Brentford spoke a lot of sense on it.

[lord bunberry]

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To be honest I’m too lazy to read that but I remember watching a decent documentary about it on BT Sport.

The guy from Brentford spoke a lot of sense on it.

The problem with doing that is if all the other clubs adopt the same policy there won’t be enough players to go around. It’s not a viable long term strategy and I’d imagine that if Brentford got into the premiership and stayed there they would rethink that model and bring back their academy. In our market we’re already in the premiership so can’t rely on leeching players from the league above us. The fact is in our country we are one of the big clubs and along with the other big clubs we need to have an academy or the whole system starts to fall apart.

[neil7908]

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This is Brentfords model

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts

Are Brentford the model for success? I know they are probably punching above their weight but when was the last time they were in the top league in England? Just doesn't seem to me that they have been successful enough to hold up as an exemplar for us.

[04Sauzee]

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Are Brentford the model for success? I know they are probably punching above their weight but when was the last time they were in the top league in England? Just doesn't seem to me that they have been successful enough to hold up as an exemplar for us.

Not sure what success is for Brentford?
Not sure if they are better or worse of than before?
Did they have debt previously?
They have built a cracking new stadium.

Just posting a link not sure how its working for them

[Is It On....]

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This is Brentfords model

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts

Josh Doig and Jason Cummings were picked up after being released by a Championship club 😉

[WhileTheChief..]

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Won’t be popular but I think it makes sense to shut it down.

In every youth team the chances of anyone making the breakthrough are so slim, this can mean keeping 8 or 9 players on so the 2 or 3 we think can make it have team mates to play with. On top of that the landscape of youth football has changed and if we do bring through a particularly special player the bigger clubs can just take them for a relatively small amount of money.

I would do away with the academy and look to pick up good 17 and 18 year olds released by the biggest clubs.

I think that’s what Brentford did and to me it makes complete sense.

Completely agree with this.

I’ve said before that the youth academy is in the main a waste of money.

I’d rather we went round poaching the best youngsters from other clubs like we did with John McGinn and more recently Nisbet and Magennis.

Could be Ron’s way of thinking too?

[Smartie]

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Completely agree with this.

I’ve said before that the youth academy is in the main a waste of money.

I’d rather we went round poaching the best youngsters from other clubs like we did with John McGinn and more recently Nisbet and Magennis.

Could be Ron’s way of thinking too?

It's easy to become wedded to an idea so much that you can't see past it.

Maybe Ron has come in and asked the pertinent questions - "we spend how much...and it raises how much back, exactly?", and the answer was one that led us in this direction?

Ron didn't stand at Easter Road in the early 90s though. We've managed to build the infrastructure we have by bringing through players and selling them for profit since then.

It works for some clubs, not for others. And whilst we might not have sold anyone for big bucks recently, we've got a good few first team games out of Hanlon and Stevenson, who we might have paid a few transfer fees for over the years had we not had those players.

[Pretty Boy]

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It's easy to become wedded to an idea so much that you can't see past it.

Maybe Ron has come in and asked the pertinent questions - "we spend how much...and it raises how much back, exactly?", and the answer was one that led us in this direction?

Ron didn't stand at Easter Road in the early 90s though. We've managed to build the infrastructure we have by bringing through players and selling them for profit since then.

It works for some clubs, not for others. And whilst we might not have sold anyone for big bucks recently, we've got a good few first team games out of Hanlon and Stevenson, who we might have paid a few transfer fees for over the years had we not had those players.

One of the things I always think you have to consider about an academy or youth system, particularly at the older age groups, is you are essentially carrying a sqaud of 16-18 players to facilitate the 2 or 3 who have a realistic chance of making it.

Hibs know by the age of 16 or 17 who is likely to make it here. You'll get the odd late developer but for the most part the club have an idea. It's just common sense that every player at every age group isn't realistically going to be a 1st team player, that would require us to ship out an entire 1st team squad every other season.

I'm not proposing we rip up the entire system but I think it's healthy to revisit the way things are done regularly and not just stick with something because 'that's how we have always done it' or 'that's how everyone else does it too'. Is there merit in only progressing 6 or 7 high quality players above under 17 level and using the link up with Stenhousemuir to develop them rather than running a development side? Is there merit in leaving boys with the juvenile sides longer but working with them to ensure they undertake the strength and conditioning work that can sometimes be lacking when you take a player late? Is there merit in following the Brentford model?

The current situation is probably as good a chance as any to sit down and really decide if what we are currently doing is both working and value for money. If it is then great, if not then change it.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't know about now, but St Johnstone only concentrated on their 1st team squad a few years ago if my memory is right.

They had no academy and to be fair, with the crowds they were getting, who could blame them?

I've said it before, most EPL clubs only have academy's as a box ticking exercise. There are grants they receive that fund them, but mainly for the money spent, they lose money in the long run.

Obviously there is the odd exception, but it's the lower league clubs that benefit more often than not, by picking up those players that don't make it at that level.

I'm on the fence with academy's, i can see why, but i'm not 100% sure they are worth the time, effort and expense?

[WhileTheChief..]

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It's easy to become wedded to an idea so much that you can't see past it.

Maybe Ron has come in and asked the pertinent questions - "we spend how much...and it raises how much back, exactly?", and the answer was one that led us in this direction?

Ron didn't stand at Easter Road in the early 90s though. We've managed to build the infrastructure we have by bringing through players and selling them for profit since then.

It works for some clubs, not for others. And whilst we might not have sold anyone for big bucks recently, we've got a good few first team games out of Hanlon and Stevenson, who we might have paid a few transfer fees for over the years had we not had those players.

I don’t disagree with any of that.

We will of had hundreds of lads through the academy over the years and a only handful will have contributed to us in a meaningful way though.

Most we will never have heard of, some will make a go of it at lower league clubs and the majority will be out of the game by the time they’re out of their teens I’d imagine.

Not knocking the club here btw, it’s the way with most clubs probably.

I just think it’s maybe worth taking a different approach and maybe focus on those from ages 17/18 up only.

There will be people that work in youth football that know more about it than me but worth a thought at least?

[Brizo]

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I don’t disagree with any of that.

We will of had hundreds of lads through the academy over the years and a only handful will have contributed to us in a meaningful way though.

Most we will never have heard of, some will make a go of it at lower league clubs and the majority will be out of the game by the time they’re out of their teens I’d imagine.

Not knocking the club here btw, it’s the way with most clubs probably.

I just think it’s maybe worth taking a different approach and maybe focus on those from ages 17/18 up only.

There will be people that work in youth football that know more about it than me but worth a thought at least?

Tbh I think this is a pretty accurate assessment of the whole Academy model and not just at Hibs.

If RG was looking at the current Academy set up and was looking at returns in terms of players making the first team then it's definitely a part of the club that's worth looking at in terms of what we are getting from it.

When RG first came in and made his infamous "pony up" comment it was in respect of us contributing to the building of more facilities at EM. That quickly went off the agenda so ,while I wouldn't take what JG has said as fact , if we are looking at the Academys function at a time of decimated income streams that makes sense to me.

[The dalmeny]

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I would do away with the academy and look to pick up good 17 and 18 year olds released by the biggest clubs.
.

if you’re happy to be second best

[Keith_M]

So much chat over an unsubstantiated rumour.

[Frazerbob]

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So much chat over an unsubstantiated rumour.

So much chat over what was clearly a joke.

[Pretty Boy]

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So much chat over what was clearly a joke.

It's been quite an interesting discussion though so I'm not sure it really matters how it came about.

[04Sauzee]

Nothing on the St Mirren AGM thread yet

https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/fo...ge/3/#comments

[EI255]

Let's be honest, our academy has hardly been a rip roaring success. Might be a good time to rethink everything and perhaps remodel our youth system, if what has been said is true.

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