Thank you Leeann Dempster

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Where you one of the ‘well known Hibs fans who hood-winked her into it when she was just in the door’ 🤣

Disappointed in her saying hood winked but yes, I proposed the idea

[hibee-boys]

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Nonsense

You clearly think the benefits of that particular loyalty scheme justified the man hours/administration required by the club to implement and manage it. Fair enough, I, and many fellow hibs fans I know didn’t.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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You clearly think the benefits of that particular loyalty scheme justified the man hours/administration required by the club to implement and manage it. Fair enough, I, and many fellow hibs fans I know didn’t.

It wasn't time consuming. Hibs had a database which could tell / analyse who purchased tickets.

I thought it was fair, for those that wanted to attend every match, not just cherry picking the "good games". There were many fans for the scheme

[0762]

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It wasn't time consuming. Hibs had a database which could tell / analyse who purchased tickets.

I thought it was fair, for those that wanted to attend every match, not just cherry picking the "good games". There were many fans for the scheme

Agree - think the issue was she didn't understand the benefits of such a scheme. Clearly she still doesn't. The line that the away season ticket sorted this is just not correct. All that did was ensure that those who could and wanted to go to all away games got tickets first. That could easily have been done in conjunction with a loyalty point scheme. These things are about engagement with the support and building brand loyalty, something that has been ignored for too long. Commercially the Club stood still under Dempster. So many missed opportunities which we'll hopefully see improvements on going forward.

[Helensburghhibs]

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Agree - think the issue was she didn't understand the benefits of such a scheme. Clearly she still doesn't. The line that the away season ticket sorted this is just not correct. All that did was ensure that those who could and wanted to go to all away games got tickets first. That could easily have been done in conjunction with a loyalty point scheme. These things are about engagement with the support and building brand loyalty, something that has been ignored for too long. Commercially the Club stood still under Dempster. So many missed opportunities which we'll hopefully see improvements on going forward.

Also agree, going from loyalty points to an away season ticket went from a system that could be fair across the board to an all or nothing. The downfall of the loyalty scheme were all the side shows that people wanted points for, points should have been for.match ticket sales only

[Itsnoteasy]

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Agree - think the issue was she didn't understand the benefits of such a scheme. Clearly she still doesn't. The line that the away season ticket sorted this is just not correct. All that did was ensure that those who could and wanted to go to all away games got tickets first. That could easily have been done in conjunction with a loyalty point scheme. These things are about engagement with the support and building brand loyalty, something that has been ignored for too long. Commercially the Club stood still under Dempster. So many missed opportunities which we'll hopefully see improvements on going forward.

Exactly. The lack of 2016 SC merch, would have made the club a small fortune.

[Smartie]

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Aw naw, not another argument about Loyalty Points.

As if to prove her point...

[B.H.F.C]

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The downfall of the loyalty scheme were all the side shows that people wanted points for, points should have been for.match ticket sales only

As in the way that every club with one administer it. Without any real complaint.

[tamig]

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Also agree, going from loyalty points to an away season ticket went from a system that could be fair across the board to an all or nothing. The downfall of the loyalty scheme were all the side shows that people wanted points for, points should have been for.match ticket sales only

I can’t remember folk screaming for loyalty points to sign up to HSL. I’m sure that was on the club. And was what screwed the scheme.

[Lancs Harp]

There were plenty of dissenting voices against the loyalty scheme. Personally I wasnt one of those and thought the scheme was good and Leeann got this wrong IMO. But surely we shouldnt be judging Leeanns time at Hibs by that particular issue, she clearly had a massive positive influence on the club and was a main player in moving this Club, its relationship with its fanbase and community forward hugely.

[matty_f]

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This is where Scottish football needs to get with it, there's a customer base out there of thousands who are prepared to pay £10 (?) to sit and watch the game in their own home and I'll guarantee that Celtic would still sell 3400 tickets for those that want to attend the game.

Spot on and not just the Rangers and Celtic but across the clubs there will be fans who, for whatever reason, can’t make it to away games and who would take a PPV option.

If priced properly, it could be a significant income generator for clubs and should be built into negotiations next time the TV deal is renewed.

The biggest problem with it is that Sky show the Rangers and Celtic away every week which would be the biggest earner.

[B.H.F.C]

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Spot on and not just the Rangers and Celtic but across the clubs there will be fans who, for whatever reason, can’t make it to away games and who would take a PPV option.

If priced properly, it could be a significant income generator for clubs and should be built into negotiations next time the TV deal is renewed.

The biggest problem with it is that Sky show the Rangers and Celtic away every week which would be the biggest earner.

I don’t think PPV revenue touches the revenue from TV.

TV revenue doesn’t exist without having the exclusivity. We’d be worse off IMO. And it would also discourage folk from going when we should be trying to do the opposite.

[matty_f]

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I don’t think PPV revenue touches the revenue from TV.

TV revenue doesn’t exist without having the exclusivity. We’d be worse off IMO. And it would also discourage folk from going when we should be trying to do the opposite.

That’s the point i was making, the principle is there and if we were able to tap into selling ppv for games we could make money on it but because of the TV deals, which rely on Sky etc broadcasting Rangers and Celtic away, we couldn’t rely on PPV alone.

[hibee-boys]

Be interesting to see how any TV options develop after we get back to people at the games. I’m trying to get my head around what objections the likes of Sky/BBC would have with clubs broadcasting games online through PPV that they are not covering. I suppose it would perhaps devalue any highlights package. There would be no right to PPV games selected by Sky which would make sense as the revenue generated for the clubs in that deal surely out weighs any PPV income.

I guess it would be the clubs who would have the main concern around getting more people in the ground. Some are heavily reliant on Celtic/Rangers coming to town, even us at a lesser extent. I would go to all hibs games at home as usual but only go to a few away games each year, I would however pay to watch most away games on PPV,.

[Iggy Pope]

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I can’t remember folk screaming for loyalty points to sign up to HSL. I’m sure that was on the club. And was what screwed the scheme.

It was the club and in dragging HSL towards the LP scheme in the heavy manner they did, the club alienated everyone outside of HSL. That’s when they got all the stick, that’s when the extra admin she bashed on about became necessary, that’s when it became the bane of her life. She screwed up and blamed part of the fanbase for it.

Pre all the HSL stuff, the scheme was working fine with very little complaint from those that missed out on a ticket here or there.
By the time she had done away with it I was among those that had a grumble as she introduced an online lottery to get derby match away tickets and OF away tickets.

Loyalty schemes seem to have worked ok at other clubs by and large.

Hibs just cannot do the ticket selling thing properly and Dempster did nothing in her tenure to improve this. The discussion here, which we’ve all had before, proves that she helped make a bad thing worse.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Be interesting to see how any TV options develop after we get back to people at the games. I’m trying to get my head around what objections the likes of Sky/BBC would have with clubs broadcasting games online through PPV that they are not covering. I suppose it would perhaps devalue any highlights package. There would be no right to PPV games selected by Sky which would make sense as the revenue generated for the clubs in that deal surely out weighs any PPV income.

I guess it would be the clubs who would have the main concern around getting more people in the ground. Some are heavily reliant on Celtic/Rangers coming to town, even us at a lesser extent. I would go to all hibs games at home as usual but only go to a few away games each year, I would however pay to watch most away games on PPV,.

So by your own admission you only go to a few games each year, presumably Tynie.

That's what we were trying to implement to help those that went everywhere from Alloa to Aberdeen, a bit of a reward for their efforts in securing them bigger match tickets first.

Hardly fair if they went to all games, but missed out on a ticket lottery for the bigger fixtures.

[Itsnoteasy]

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Agree - think the issue was she didn't understand the benefits of such a scheme. Clearly she still doesn't. The line that the away season ticket sorted this is just not correct. All that did was ensure that those who could and wanted to go to all away games got tickets first. That could easily have been done in conjunction with a loyalty point scheme. These things are about engagement with the support and building brand loyalty, something that has been ignored for too long. Commercially the Club stood still under Dempster. So many missed opportunities which we'll hopefully see improvements on going forward.

I struggle to grasp why she couldn't understand such a basic & simple scheme. Attend a match, get a point & the more points you have the higher up the list you are. We are probably only one of the so called bigger teams who did not have a loyalty points scheme in place.

Instead she comes up with this great idea to pilot an away season ticket, whether you could go or not you still had to buy a ticket, only we could come up with such a $h1t3 idea.

[Brightside]

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I struggle to grasp why she couldn't understand such a basic & simple scheme. Attend a match, get a point & the more points you have the higher up the list you are. We are probably only one of the so called bigger teams who did not have a loyalty points scheme in place.

Instead she comes up with this great idea to pilot an away season ticket, whether you could go or not you still had to buy a ticket, only we could come up with such a $h1t3 idea.

But didn’t some fans what away games to count more? So ST holders were behind fans that would go to Alloa to Aberdeen etc. That made no sense ever to me.

[hibee-boys]

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So by your own admission you only go to a few games each year, presumably Tynie.

That's what we were trying to implement to help those that went everywhere from Alloa to Aberdeen, a bit of a reward for their efforts in securing them bigger match tickets first.

Hardly fair if they went to all games, but missed out on a ticket lottery for the bigger fixtures.

Can’t recall the last time I was at Tynecastle for a derby,. I’ve got a young family, girls who are only now showing an interest in coming along. I’ve preferred to limit away game as I’ve wanted to spend time with the family every second Saturday. Any away games have been limited to the likes of Livingston when I’ve been more comfortable taking them along.

Appreciate that loyalty points were a burning issue for a limited number of supporters. However, in my opinion, having some form of hierarchy, other than fans who committed to season tickets, was not right. As a season ticket holder for as long as I can remember my view was that there should be a ballot for any games were tickets were restricted. I’m just not comfortable having anymore ‘tiers’ of fans, primarily because it starts to (a) create a divide in the support and (b) favour supporters who have the financial resources and/or perhaps time to follow hibs to every away game. Just doesn’t sit right with me, just my view, and respect the fact that it won’t be everybody’s.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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I can’t remember folk screaming for loyalty points to sign up to HSL. I’m sure that was on the club. And was what screwed the scheme.

It made no difference in the end (in terms of anyone actually getting a ticket over a non HSL member) but was probably the final argument that made her close the scheme.

It just sounds like it was explained and communicated very well to LD and to the fan base. It should be something we have and it should be easy but for some reason we made it complicated for many to get their head round. Either that or we’ve got a really argumentative fan base who can’t agree on the simplest thing.

[Itsnoteasy]

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But didn’t some fans what away games to count more? So ST holders were behind fans that would go to Alloa to Aberdeen etc. That made no sense ever to me.

Not sure about that, Baldy will be able to confirm. I would say 1 point per game nothing else. I think the issues that arose were when individuals received extra points for signing up to different initiatives which certainly wasn't fair.

[Itsnoteasy]

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Can’t recall the last time I was at Tynecastle for a derby,. I’ve got a young family, girls who are only now showing an interest in coming along. I’ve preferred to limit away game as I’ve wanted to spend time with the family every second Saturday. Any away games have been limited to the likes of Livingston when I’ve been more comfortable taking them along.

Appreciate that loyalty points were a burning issue for a limited number of supporters. However, in my opinion, having some form of hierarchy, other than fans who committed to season tickets, was not right. As a season ticket holder for as long as I can remember my view was that there should be a ballot for any games were tickets were restricted. I’m just not comfortable having anymore ‘tiers’ of fans, primarily because it starts to (a) create a divide in the support and (b) favour supporters who have the financial resources and/or perhaps time to follow hibs to every away game. Just doesn’t sit right with me, just my view, and respect the fact that it won’t be everybody’s.

So why do other clubs have loyalty points?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Not sure about that, Baldy will be able to confirm. I would say 1 point per game nothing else. I think the issues that arose were when individuals received extra points for signing up to different initiatives which certainly wasn't fair.

Nah there were arguments prior to that - points harvesting etc. Some saw it as creating a hierarchy as well - all before the HSL points.

I hear Hearts fans talking about theirs and they never seem to complain - just a simple “I can get a ticket yet cos it’s only open to 180 points and above and I have 170. Hopefully get a ticket in the next release”.

We banged the doors down to get the scheme stopped.

[Itsnoteasy]

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So by your own admission you only go to a few games each year, presumably Tynie.

That's what we were trying to implement to help those that went everywhere from Alloa to Aberdeen, a bit of a reward for their efforts in securing them bigger match tickets first.

Hardly fair if they went to all games, but missed out on a ticket lottery for the bigger fixtures.

Take a seat Baldy. If the chief executive couldn't work this out what chance did us minions have.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Take a seat Baldy. If the chief executive couldn't work this out what chance did us minions have.

goes back to my point on how it was explained and communicated.

[Itsnoteasy]

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Nah there were arguments prior to that - points harvesting etc. Some saw it as creating a hierarchy as well - all before the HSL points.

I hear Hearts fans talking about theirs and they never seem to complain - just a simple “I can get a ticket yet cos it’s only open to 180 points and above and I have 170. Hopefully get a ticket in the next release”.

We banged the doors down to get the scheme stopped.

Correct didn't want to mention Hertz, but it is so f3ck3n simple. As you said starts high then goes down 10 every time. You get a few days in your category. Then lesser points category after that & continues down all the categories until all tickets are gone.

[Itsnoteasy]

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goes back to my point on how it was explained and communicated.

Whose fault was that?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Whose fault was that?

I’m not sure. Maybe the group that left her feeling “hood winked”?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Correct didn't want to mention Hertz, but it is so f3ck3n simple. As you said starts high then goes down 10 every time. You get a few days in your category. Then lesser points category after that & continues down all the categories until all tickets are gone.

it’s such a simple concept but we made a right mess of it.

[Itsnoteasy]

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It was the club and in dragging HSL towards the LP scheme in the heavy manner they did, the club alienated everyone outside of HSL. That’s when they got all the stick, that’s when the extra admin she bashed on about became necessary, that’s when it became the bane of her life. She screwed up and blamed part of the fanbase for it.

Pre all the HSL stuff, the scheme was working fine with very little complaint from those that missed out on a ticket here or there.
By the time she had done away with it I was among those that had a grumble as she introduced an online lottery to get derby match away tickets and OF away tickets.

Loyalty schemes seem to have worked ok at other clubs by and large.

Hibs just cannot do the ticket selling thing properly and Dempster did nothing in her tenure to improve this. The discussion here, which we’ve all had before, proves that she helped make a bad thing worse.

Well written in layman's terms.

I remember when the ticket shop was in ER beside bus shelter. Don't ask me year or who we were playing but it was an all ticket game. The queue went down Sunnyside one side back up the other side then halfway up ER. You could barely fit 3 people in the shop. I think I waited about 6 hours that day for a ticket. Shambles then & not much better now.