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Thread: Gray & McGregor

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenProfessor View Post
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    Sorry...but youíre both wrong. Watch the Time for Heroes DVD again...it was David Gray who lost Miller for the header off the bar, he confirmed it on the DVD...
    Daft argument but was 100% Stevenson, hence why he had his head in his hands before Miller even headed the ball. FWIW Lewis is done, Hanlon should be in and around the team but not an automatic starter, Daz and Gray are finished as well. Gray came on against Celtic and his rashness sold the jerseys as he has done often. A lot of work needed to our back 4, and Rocky back in ASAP.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    Yep, I understand they are on a relatively low basic wage which is heavily weighted by appearances.
    There is no way of knowing that. One thing for sure, we are not getting value for money employing two players who canít play no matter how bad things are going.


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  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    There is no way of knowing that. One thing for sure, we are not getting value for money employing two players who canít play no matter how bad things are going.


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    Both are fit and ready to play if required, they can't help not being picked

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    There is no way of knowing that. One thing for sure, we are not getting value for money employing two players who canít play no matter how bad things are going.


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    They can play but Ross is choosing not to. Where are you getting they can't play from?

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member jeffers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allant1981 View Post
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    Both are fit and ready to play if required, they can't help not being picked
    Exactly and some of the criticism of the two of them is totally unnecessary IMO and comments about the length of their contracts without knowing the details out of order. It doesnít matter if they are contracted beyond this season IMO all that I believe should be debated is whether they should have a playing contract for this season and I certainly would have given each of them a deal. What happens next season is another matter.

    Until the last few games Porteous and Hanlon along with Paul McGinn have been playing well, Jack Ross has rightly played them with SDG and Daz on the bench to be brought on as required, but in the main you donít sub your defenders for tactical reasons so neither of them are getting on. Iím sure both of them accept that, although after yesterdayís performance both would have good cause for chapping on the managers door.

    The fact is we need cover, both players are being used in that capacity just now.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member jeffers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    There is no way of knowing that. One thing for sure, we are not getting value for money employing two players who canít play no matter how bad things are going.


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    Iíd argue a bigger waste of a wage is Stephen McGinn who I actually like as a player. A position we didnít need cover in, who the manager appears to have signed more because he actually likes him as a person and heís good to have around rather than because he has any intention in actually playing him regularly.

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffers View Post
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    Iíd argue a bigger waste of a wage is Stephen McGinn who I actually like as a player. A position we didnít need cover in, who the manager appears to have signed more because he actually likes him as a person and heís good to have around rather than because he has any intention in actually playing him regularly.

    This is rather annoying, not a player we needed and many on here questioned at the time as to why he was signed, jobs for the boys is something you expect to see at Hearts and not Hibs.

  9. #38
    @hibs.net private member jeffers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    This is rather annoying, not a player we needed and many on here questioned at the time as to why he was signed, jobs for the boys is something you expect to see at Hearts and not Hibs.
    Totally agree and like I say as I player I quite like him, but listening to his last interview he came across as delighted to have a contract but not overly fussed about actually playing.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffers View Post
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    Totally agree and like I say as I player I quite like him, but listening to his last interview he came across as delighted to have a contract but not overly fussed about actually playing.

    If McGinn had all his badges as a coach and was signed as a player coach to act as cover, then I'd be happy enough for that but that isn't the case.

    Re the Gray/McGregor deals, I was of the assumption that the longer deals was to allow them to integrate into the background side of the club by either going into coaching or ambassador roles, I think both have been doing their badges and their leadership skills were important for the squad.

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    If McGinn had all his badges as a coach and was signed as a player coach to act as cover, then I'd be happy enough for that but that isn't the case.

    Re the Gray/McGregor deals, I was of the assumption that the longer deals was to allow them to integrate into the background side of the club by either going into coaching or ambassador roles, I think both have been doing their badges and their leadership skills were important for the squad.
    Who are they coaching? Iím never at HTC now so Iíve no idea what group they are involved in. We donít have a dev team anymore so it must only be kids? If they arenít going to play maybe itís time to have them actively coaching from the sidelines? If we have no leaders on the pitch whatís stopping the leadership coming from 2 yards off the pitch?

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member jeffers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    If McGinn had all his badges as a coach and was signed as a player coach to act as cover, then I'd be happy enough for that but that isn't the case.

    Re the Gray/McGregor deals, I was of the assumption that the longer deals was to allow them to integrate into the background side of the club by either going into coaching or ambassador roles, I think both have been doing their badges and their leadership skills were important for the squad.
    Re Gray/McGregor deals thats absolutely my understanding of their deals and how GC described them. Yet it constantly gets brought up as if their longer term deals impacts on this season. IMO it doesnít, Iíd have given both a playing contract for this season with the understanding that it may be more for cover than as regular starters. I donít think either are finished but itís not easy to come in with little game time and not be rusty. Every player Iíve ever heard talk about it says there is a huge difference between being fit and match fit.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightside View Post
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    Who are they coaching? Iím never at HTC now so Iíve no idea what group they are involved in. We donít have a dev team anymore so it must only be kids? If they arenít going to play maybe itís time to have them actively coaching from the sidelines? If we have no leaders on the pitch whatís stopping the leadership coming from 2 yards off the pitch?

    I think Covid has made things difficult right now, there are still youth teams at HTC as far as I'm aware but nearly all Dev players are out on loan due to no league, I don't know if Daz and Gray are doing their badges I heard they were, perhaps that's been suspended during these times. Maybe Ross doesn't want them to be doing that as it undermines his position, TBH I'd like to see a lot more animation from Ross instead of just standing there hands in pockets whispering to his assistant. Leadership comes from the top and I see very little from the sidelines.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffers View Post
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    Re Gray/McGregor deals thats absolutely my understanding of their deals and how GC described them. Yet it constantly gets brought up as if their longer term deals impacts on this season. IMO it doesnít, Iíd have given both a playing contract for this season with the understanding that it may be more for cover than as regular starters. I donít think either are finished but itís not easy to come in with little game time and not be rusty. Every player Iíve ever heard talk about it says there is a huge difference between being fit and match fit.

    Also with no reserve league this year it means fringe players have no way of getting game time.

  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    I think Covid has made things difficult right now, there are still youth teams at HTC as far as I'm aware but nearly all Dev players are out on loan due to no league, I don't know if Daz and Gray are doing their badges I heard they were, perhaps that's been suspended during these times. Maybe Ross doesn't want them to be doing that as it undermines his position, TBH I'd like to see a lot more animation from Ross instead of just standing there hands in pockets whispering to his assistant. Leadership comes from the top and I see very little from the sidelines.
    Badges are still going on for sure. Best time possible for them to do it as all the theory is being done remotely.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightside View Post
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    Badges are still going on for sure. Best time possible for them to do it as all the theory is being done remotely.

    I didn't know how they did that, I think due to this years problems our squad is such that both are on the bench as a necessity, if it was a normal season then you might have found they'd be doing more coaching with kids and a couple of new signings were here to challenge for places.
    Last edited by J-C; 03-01-2021 at 09:54 AM.

  17. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by loanheadhibby View Post
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    Iíd have them both back in the team. They deserve a chance. Although canít see Jack Ross dropping McGinn for Gray.

    And if they are not in his thoughts, get the 2 of them away on loan and use the funds to get others who can push for start.
    Mcginn and Mcgregor centre half. Gray RB and Doig LB.

    Whole defence apart from Mcginn need dropped.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Itís lucky Hibs are so loaded we can pay a couple of fans to sit on our bench every week.


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    We are so light in the squad, due to a long list of injuries and having to cut the player budget due to covid losses, that we could only manage six subs on the bench for the Ross County game. If you can get yourself registered youíll probably find yourself on the bench at some point this season. We had one suspension and eight first team squad players injured that night and weíre not a lot better off yet.

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffers View Post
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    Iíd argue a bigger waste of a wage is Stephen McGinn who I actually like as a player. A position we didnít need cover in, who the manager appears to have signed more because he actually likes him as a person and heís good to have around rather than because he has any intention in actually playing him regularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-C View Post
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    This is rather annoying, not a player we needed and many on here questioned at the time as to why he was signed, jobs for the boys is something you expect to see at Hearts and not Hibs.

    It still baffles me, although when I mentioned this on another thread assessing Ross's signings it was shredded by one of our all knowing posters. Why Stephen McGinn was signed will remain an unanswered question for me.

    Who knows if Gray and McGregor can still play at SPL level. If they can't then why are they even on the bench? TBF Gray is competing with McGinn, one of our better players this season. A fit McGregor is worth a start. Both Porteous and Hanlon seem prone to conceding simple goals, with Porto compounding this with rash passes, daft tackles and the like.

    You wonder what else is going on. It's all a bit odd (like Ross's substitution policy).

  20. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    It still baffles me, although when I mentioned this on another thread assessing Ross's signings it was shredded by one of our all knowing posters. Why Stephen McGinn was signed will remain an unanswered question for me.

    Who knows if Gray and McGregor can still play at SPL level. If they can't then why are they even on the bench? TBF Gray is competing with McGinn, one of our better players this season. A fit McGregor is worth a start. Both Porteous and Hanlon seem prone to conceding simple goals, with Porto compounding this with rash passes, daft tackles and the like.

    You wonder what else is going on. It's all a bit odd (like Ross's substitution policy).
    My issue with Stephen McGinn isnít so much why he was signed - but why hasnít he played more?

    Heís actually looked pretty decent to me during his appearances late on in games.

  21. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    Daft argument but was 100% Stevenson, hence why he had his head in his hands before Miller even headed the ball. FWIW Lewis is done, Hanlon should be in and around the team but not an automatic starter, Daz and Gray are finished as well. Gray came on against Celtic and his rashness sold the jerseys as he has done often. A lot of work needed to our back 4, and Rocky back in ASAP.
    Have you actually watched Time for Heroes? Suggest you take a look and youíll see David Gray talk about losing Kenny Miller for the header off the bar....I agree, it is a daft argument, especially when the facts are there for all too see on a DVD...

  22. #51
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    Gray & McGregor

    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    It still baffles me, although when I mentioned this on another thread assessing Ross's signings it was shredded by one of our all knowing posters. Why Stephen McGinn was signed will remain an unanswered question for me.

    Who knows if Gray and McGregor can still play at SPL level. If they can't then why are they even on the bench? TBF Gray is competing with McGinn, one of our better players this season. A fit McGregor is worth a start. Both Porteous and Hanlon seem prone to conceding simple goals, with Porto compounding this with rash passes, daft tackles and the like.

    You wonder what else is going on. It's all a bit odd (like Ross's substitution policy).
    The reason S McGinn was signed is really simple. He is back up, likely a cheap option, there to make up the numbers and be used occasionally if needed.

    Iím pretty sure he is also seen as good to have around the dressing room, may do some analysis work on opposing teams..

    Was important for squad numbers, particularly when budget was restricted


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  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by EI255 View Post
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    Ryan Porteous is our weak link. Get him TF!!!

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    That weak that he was called up into the Scotland squad. Up until the last week he was having a great season, yes heís had a couple of errors but heís strolled through just about every other game this season. Porteous is the least of our problems.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    My issue with Stephen McGinn isnít so much why he was signed - but why hasnít he played more?

    Heís actually looked pretty decent to me during his appearances late on in games.
    Does anyone else agree with that? Maybe he should play more? I canít say Iím very impressed by his contribution thus far.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    The reason S McGinn was signed is really simple. He is back up, likely a cheap option, there to make up the numbers and be used occasionally if needed.

    Iím pretty sure he is also seen as good to have around the dressing room, may do some analysis work on opposing teams..

    Was important for squad numbers, particularly when budget was restricted


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    We have Gray and McGregor for being good around the dressing room. Iím not sure what this really means? What about Stevenson, Hanlon, Boyle, PMcGinn, etc, etc. Are they all so weak minded they need the presence of a guy who rarely plays to buoy their spirits?

    Good for squad numbers isnít cutting it with me as a signing strategy. We need players who play, when you add Murphy and Magennis into that mix, itís not that great.

  25. #54
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    We miss the drive of both of those players but there's nothing to suggest, from the last few times each has played, that they'd be an improvement on the current players.

    SDG's passing the last few times he played was utterly woeful, and he left a massive gap on one side of the pitch for the opposition to attack while he was trying to drive the game forward.

  26. #55
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    Gray & McGregor

    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Does anyone else agree with that? Maybe he should play more? I canít say Iím very impressed by his contribution thus far.




    We have Gray and McGregor for being good around the dressing room. Iím not sure what this really means? What about Stevenson, Hanlon, Boyle, PMcGinn, etc, etc. Are they all so weak minded they need the presence of a guy who rarely plays to buoy their spirits?

    Good for squad numbers isnít cutting it with me as a signing strategy. We need players who play, when you add Murphy and Magennis into that mix, itís not that great.
    We were short in midfield, he came in as backup for there...canít see whatís unclear about it at all.....

    We can debate whether itís worked or not, but the decision to sign him is straight forward

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  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Does anyone else agree with that? Maybe he should play more? I canít say Iím very impressed by his contribution thus far.
    I donít necessarily think heís the answer but he might be worthy of further opportunity.

    He scored at Motherwell and put a lovely weighted pass through to Stevenson late in the game on Wednesday.

    Mallan and Gogic both started yesterday and it really didnít work. It ďhasnít workedĒ with either or both of those 2 in a good few attempts.

    I stress - I donít think heís the answer but in a season where weíre toiling in midfield and our squad is stretched, Iím at the point where he might just be worth a shout.

  28. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    We have Gray and McGregor for being good around the dressing room. Iím not sure what this really means? What about Stevenson, Hanlon, Boyle, PMcGinn, etc, etc. Are they all so weak minded they need the presence of a guy who rarely plays to buoy their spirits?

    Good for squad numbers isnít cutting it with me as a signing strategy. We need players who play, when you add Murphy and Magennis into that mix, itís not that great.
    Totally agree. The combined money for Gray, McGregor and McGinn would be much better spent on one player that we actually see on the pitch from time to time. I know McGinn does manage that now and again but heís not going to make any kind of proper contribution.

    Love Gray and McGregor and itís not their fault they are in the position they are but itís three players in our squad every week who simply arenít going to contribute. And if they do get in at any point theyíre going to be so far off the pace. Remember a home game, not long before the original lockdown, where Gray had an absolute disaster and was hooked at half time. Neither of them have played any kind of regular football for far too long now.

  29. #58
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    We were short in midfield, he came in as backup for there...canít see whatís unclear about it at all.....

    We can debate whether itís worked or not, but the decision to sign him is straight forward

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    So we can drop the stuff you posted about being good in the dressing room etc and just focus on his playing contribution then?

    I understand the part about being short in midfield and a player being signed as back up. However, given he trained with us for weeks prior to signing I remain baffled by why Ross thought he could contribute and why he was given a year long contract. When the **** hits the fan, like it is now, that is when you start looking at errors of judgement.

    I would add Murphy and Magennis to the list of questionable signings, although this starts moving away from Gray and McGregor at increasingly tangential tangents.

  30. #59
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    Gray & McGregor

    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    So we can drop the stuff you posted about being good in the dressing room etc and just focus on his playing contribution then?

    I understand the part about being short in midfield and a player being signed as back up. However, given he trained with us for weeks prior to signing I remain baffled by why Ross thought he could contribute and why he was given a year long contract. When the **** hits the fan, like it is now, that is when you start looking at errors of judgement.

    I would add Murphy and Magennis to the list of questionable signings, although this starts moving away from Gray and McGregor at increasingly tangential tangents.
    He's been a captain almost everywhere he has played - so being good in the dressing room is a reasonable point to note...in a year where budgets are restricted, we have had to cut our cloth - I don't see what's unreasonable for us to sign someone simply as back up...that can add value elsewhere too. In previous years we've had 3 or 4 of these, that hardly kicked a ball. That's all that this signing is. I don't see the S McGinn signing being a big error, or an error at all. It is what it is. When results are poor people go on hyper alert to raise anything that might not be working - this time it is the McGinn signing getting it. If those who were playing were still winning, it wouldn't be on this forum.
    Last edited by bigwheel; 03-01-2021 at 01:56 PM.

  31. #60
    @hibs.net private member jeffers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.H.F.C View Post
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    Totally agree. The combined money for Gray, McGregor and McGinn would be much better spent on one player that we actually see on the pitch from time to time. I know McGinn does manage that now and again but heís not going to make any kind of proper contribution.

    Love Gray and McGregor and itís not their fault they are in the position they are but itís three players in our squad every week who simply arenít going to contribute. And if they do get in at any point theyíre going to be so far off the pace. Remember a home game, not long before the original lockdown, where Gray had an absolute disaster and was hooked at half time. Neither of them have played any kind of regular football for far too long now.
    Following that logic, if we donít have Gray and McGregor what would we do if a centre back or Paul McGinn get injured or suspended ? Be nice to think every player would contribute but we need cover. Until the past few games our centre backs and right back have played well and deserved to keep their place in the team.

    My bigger issue is with Stephen McGinn because itís a position we already had cover for. Cheap or not I still believe would could have got a loan signing from down south who could have contributed, as we did with Barker when he was on loan.

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