St Mirren and Killie

[JGS56]

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Wow, Motherwell just went up from 9th to 5th, without playing a single game.

You have to remember, that Motherwell had 2 games in hand and Hamilton had 1 game in hand. So they have been awarded wins that they may have achieved anyway. No results have been reversed.

[The 90+2]

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Aberdeen and Celtic were both stopped from playing by the government. Not because they were unable to field a team

They had about five players that broke the rules meaning they were unable to play. That’s about as bad as it gets. Yet they get away fine.

[Peevemor]

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They had about five players that broke the rules meaning they were unable to play. That’s about as bad as it gets. Yet they get away fine.

The club didn't tell them to break the rules. You can't dock points for something a player (or group of players) does in his spare time.

[matty_f]

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The club didn't tell them to break the rules. You can't dock points for something a player (or groupe of players) does in his spare time.

I'm with you on this one. I think if the club does what it can to ensure that the players follow protocols and have everything in place to be as covid-secure as they possibly can, then they shouldn't be punished.

Where a club has been negligent with it, then that's a different story, if there are systematic failings then it's appropriate to punish the clubs.

[Chorley Hibee]

Don't see the logic in sides profiting from this.

By all means deduct points from Killie and St Mirren for breaches, but awarding Motherwell 6pts and +6 goal difference for nothing is a farce.

Could cost another team Europe/relegation etc come the end of the season. These games should be rescheduled to retain the integrity of the league.

[Sir David Gray]

Both breaches involved seating arrangements on the coach and a pre-match meal where social distancing wasn't observed by players and staff but once they're out on the pitch they're all kissing and hugging each other at goal celebrations and and grappling with each other at corners etc. Does Covid take 90 minutes off during a game?

Seems a bit daft to enforce distancing on a coach journey and a meal but then let it go out the window for an hour and a half to let them play a game of football.

[Peevemor]

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Don't see the logic in sides profiting from this.

By all means deduct points from Killie and St Mirren for breaches, but awarding Motherwell 6pts and +6 goal difference for nothing is a farce.

Could cost another team Europe/relegation etc come the end of the season. These games should be rescheduled to retain the integrity of the league.

Because the sides have been denied the opportunity to win 3 points. Motherwell have certainly done very well out of it but that's not their fault.

The 3-0 result/punishment has been standard for years and wee were all spitting feathers on here when it wasn't applied when Hearts fielded an unregistered player against Cove Rangers a couple of years ago and were only docked 2 points out of the 3 that they won during the match.

We can't have it all ways.

[Peevemor]

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Both breaches involved seating arrangements on the coach and a pre-match meal where social distancing wasn't observed by players and staff but once they're out on the pitch they're all kissing and hugging each other at goal celebrations and and grappling with each other at corners etc. Does Covid take 90 minutes off during a game?

Seems a bit daft to enforce distancing on a coach journey and a meal but then let it go out the window for an hour and a half to let them play a game of football.

Seems strange to me too.

[nonshinyfinish]

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Both breaches involved seating arrangements on the coach and a pre-match meal where social distancing wasn't observed by players and staff but once they're out on the pitch they're all kissing and hugging each other at goal celebrations and and grappling with each other at corners etc. Does Covid take 90 minutes off during a game?

Seems a bit daft to enforce distancing on a coach journey and a meal but then let it go out the window for an hour and a half to let them play a game of football.

I think the point is to minimise the risk by controlling the things that you can control. It's not possible to play football without physical contact, but it is possible to spread people out on a bus. You can argue about whether the punishment is harsh or not, but the principle makes sense to me.

(Celebrating goals is something else again – when the first leagues started back playing, there was a big thing about telling players not to hug each other in celebration and early examples of players conscientiously celebrating separately, but it seemed to be given up on pretty fast.)

[davhibby]

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Both breaches involved seating arrangements on the coach and a pre-match meal where social distancing wasn't observed by players and staff but once they're out on the pitch they're all kissing and hugging each other at goal celebrations and and grappling with each other at corners etc. Does Covid take 90 minutes off during a game?

Seems a bit daft to enforce distancing on a coach journey and a meal but then let it go out the window for an hour and a half to let them play a game of football.

Well clearly these things do make a difference since both of these clubs ended up with loads of cases and nobody else has had that happen in the 4 months the season has been going on for

[Sir David Gray]

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I think the point is to minimise the risk by controlling the things that you can control. It's not possible to play football without physical contact, but it is possible to spread people out on a bus. You can argue about whether the punishment is harsh or not, but the principle makes sense to me.

(Celebrating goals is something else again – when the first leagues started back playing, there was a big thing about telling players not to hug each other in celebration and early examples of players conscientiously celebrating separately, but it seemed to be given up on pretty fast.)

I understand the point about minimising risk but when the same players who are banned from sitting together on a coach journey are then jumping all over each other to celebrate a goal, I just don't see the point to be honest.

Isn't that the purpose of regular testing at Premiership clubs?

[Chorley Hibee]

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Because the sides have been denied the opportunity to win 3 points. Motherwell have certainly done very well out of it but that's not their fault.

The 3-0 result/punishment has been standard for years and wee were all spitting feathers on here when it wasn't applied when Hearts fielded an unregistered player against Cove Rangers a couple of years ago and were only docked 2 points out of the 3 that they won during the match.

We can't have it all ways.

These games never took place though (unlike the Hearts game) and this is a completely different matter from a player being unregistered.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure the rules you refer to only apply to cup competition, as the team involved in the breach would be the only one disadvantaged.

In this scenario, all teams in direct competition with Motherwell and Hamilton have potentially been disadvantaged.

If we lose out on Europe by a point/goal difference come the end of the season, then I cannot see how the integrity of the league has been retained.

Punish Killie and St Mirren, not potentially everyone else bar Motherwell and Hamilton.

[Billy Whizz]

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These games never took place though (unlike the Hearts game) and this is a completely different matter from a player being unregistered.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure the rules you refer to only apply to cup competition, as the team involved in the breach would be the only one disadvantaged.

In this scenario, all teams in direct competition with Motherwell and Hamilton have potentially been disadvantaged.

If we lose out on Europe by a point/goal difference come the end of the season, then I cannot see how the integrity of the league has been retained.

Punish Killie and St Mirren, not potentially everyone else bar Motherwell and Hamilton.

That would be unfair on Motherwell or Hamilton, as they could have won these games

[Chorley Hibee]

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That would be unfair on Motherwell or Hamilton, as they could have won these games

The games should be rescheduled and played. Let them win the points on the pitch.

[Billy Whizz]

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The games should be rescheduled and played. Let them win the points on the pitch.

Can’t disagree with that, but how how do you punish the offending clubs, points deduction?

[nonshinyfinish]

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I understand the point about minimising risk but when the same players who are banned from sitting together on a coach journey are then jumping all over each other to celebrate a goal, I just don't see the point to be honest.

Isn't that the purpose of regular testing at Premiership clubs?

The goal celebration thing definitely muddies the water, as it's obviously unnecessary, but perhaps it's been deemed impractical to stop players doing it. Given that transmission risk is generally a function of distance and time of contact, I imagine there's also an argument that sitting next to someone on a bus for an hour is significantly worse than hugging them for a few seconds.

[Chorley Hibee]

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Can’t disagree with that, but how how do you punish the offending clubs, points deduction?

As I said, deduct points from the offenders - that's a fair and proportionate response. Awarding Motherwell 6pts (that could be the difference between us making Europe or not) isn't.

[Peevemor]

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The games should be rescheduled and played. Let them win the points on the pitch.

That's your opinion.

The powers that be want to avoid a potentially huge backlog of fixtures.

[CropleyWasGod]

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As I said, deduct points from the offenders - that's a fair and proportionate response. Awarding Motherwell 6pts (that could be the difference between us making Europe or not) isn't.

Not giving Motherwell the chance to gain those points is unfair on them, no?

[Peevemor]

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As I said, deduct points from the offenders - that's a fair and proportionate response. Awarding Motherwell 6pts (that could be the difference between us making Europe or not) isn't.

So you're punishing Motherwell too even though they've done nothing wrong.

[Oscar T Grouch]

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The games should be rescheduled and played. Let them win the points on the pitch.

Part of the issue this season is the lack of spare days to play games like this. If they squeeze these in for replay they'd need to squeeze all games in which is an impossibility. You never know Hibs might benefit from rule breaches by other clubs. Motherwell faced disruption due to no fault of their own more than any other team this season, awarding them 3-0 wins for the games isn't too bad a solution. It could end up farcical if it comes down to goal difference for league position this season.

[Jones28]

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So players of clubs are allowed to break the rules but clubs breaking protocol aren’t?

The clubs should be and are being punished as a whole for breaking rules; the players were punished individually for breaking rules.

Makes sense to me.

[GreenPJ]

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That would be unfair on Motherwell or Hamilton, as they could have won these games

Is that not the point - they could have won, or they could have drawn or they could have lost. Rather than give them the benefit of something that may or may not have happened reduce down the penalised club by 3 points likely still have the impact of Motherwell going up places in the league but not to allow them to get closer to clubs without playing a match?

[danhibees1875]

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Both breaches involved seating arrangements on the coach and a pre-match meal where social distancing wasn't observed by players and staff but once they're out on the pitch they're all kissing and hugging each other at goal celebrations and and grappling with each other at corners etc. Does Covid take 90 minutes off during a game?

Seems a bit daft to enforce distancing on a coach journey and a meal but then let it go out the window for an hour and a half to let them play a game of football.

Presumably you can add daily changing and training to that also in terms of times they're in close proximity.

Perhaps just my ignorance of what clubs were having to do right now but I thought the whole "testing bubble" thing extended as far as bus rides and canteens.


I'm also surprised Aberdeen haven't found a way to benefit from this yet.

[Chorley Hibee]

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So you're punishing Motherwell too even though they've done nothing wrong.

I've repeatedly said that the games should be rescheduled and played (as countless games are every season). That's not a punishment, it's retaining the integrity of the league for all clubs involved.

If Motherwell win both games then they deserve six points, at the moment they don't.

[GreenPJ]

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Not giving Motherwell the chance to gain those points is unfair on them, no?

IS this not akin to the whole Hearts argument - because you didn't get to play the games they didn't know what the outcome would be but in this scenario they seem to give the benefit to a team even although they didn't play?

[Jones28]

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So you're punishing Motherwell too even though they've done nothing wrong.

You could spin another way and say they've gained 6 points and 6 goals for doing nothing? Should they be rewarded as a result?

I get giving them the points but 3 goals a game is OTT.

[jgl07]

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That's your opinion.

The powers that be want to avoid a potentially huge backlog of fixtures.

There is hardly a huge backlog of fixtures? Only Sevco and Celtic are still in Europe, the latter for only one more week! Certainly when compared to the EPL. City and United missed the first round of fixtures due to participation in European competition from last season and have not had a spare mid-week slot available to play that match. This will not happen before January/February.

I think that the games should be played with points deductions being given for those deemed responsible for the original postponement.

[calumhibee1]

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I've repeatedly said that the games should be rescheduled and played (as countless games are every season). That's not a punishment, it's retaining the integrity of the league for all clubs involved.

If Motherwell win both games then they deserve six points, at the moment they don't.

I’m actually getting sick of reading you say it you’ve said it that often so I don’t know how people are still asking you the same question

[Chorley Hibee]

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I’m actually getting sick of reading you say it you’ve said it that often so I don’t know how people are still asking you the same question

Thank god, I thought it was just me. 🤣