Atlantic League

[B.H.F.C]

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Good point , what did he leave us for . A ridiculous low fee and 10k per week. I know he’s on more now but if we’d been in this set up 5 years ago we’d be able to pay him possibly 20k pw until we got a crazy offer

Some jump to suddenly be paying players £20k a week.

£900m, split equally over the 6 years, amounts to £7.5m a year for each team. However, we’d likely be receiving less than that as presumably it’d be based on league position and we wouldn’t be at the top end I wouldn’t think.

So deduct the TV money we wouldn’t be seeing, add in our additional costs (imagine it would cost the club a 7 figure sum over a season for travelling away to Europe every couple of weeks).

Best case scenario, initially, you are a few million quid better off a year. Aberdeen, for example, currently bring in a few million quid more than us each year but they’re not paying anyone £20k a week.

On McGinn, he reportedly left us for in excess of £20k a week and ended up on £60k odd a week when he signed his new contract.

Not saying it wouldn’t make us better if financially, but to think we suddenly end up paying that type of money is crazy IMO.

[Since90+2]

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Some jump to suddenly be paying players £20k a week.

£900m, split equally over the 6 years, amounts to £7.5m a year for each team. However, we’d likely be receiving less than that as presumably it’d be based on league position and we wouldn’t be at the top end I wouldn’t think.

So deduct the TV money we wouldn’t be seeing, add in our additional costs (imagine it would cost the club a 7 figure sum over a season for travelling away to Europe every couple of weeks).

Best case scenario, initially, you are a few million quid better off a year. Aberdeen, for example, currently bring in a few million quid more than us each year but they’re not paying anyone £20k a week.

On McGinn, he reportedly left us for in excess of £20k a week and ended up on £60k odd a week when he signed his new contract.

Not saying it wouldn’t make us better if financially, but to think we suddenly end up paying that type of money is crazy IMO.

The headline figure looks great but when you break it down in reality it's not all that much more. Probably not even enough to compete with middle to top end championship clubs in England let alone the Premier League.

If you add in the teams from Holland and Belgium then I think it's potentially a goer but not without them. There's just not enough big name clubs in it to make it interesting.

Celtic and Rangers would also still be the biggest clubs in it and would likely be the most successful teams.

[ScottB]

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No interest in it what so ever. Doesn't even have the Dutch or Belgian teams in it which at least would be something.

I believe they are creating their own combined league between themselves?

While there’s been endless chat about such things for years and years, does seem like some changes are starting to happen. There’s talk of Balkan and Baltic leagues as well.

[easty]

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RG will be massively failing his customers by not even consulting them on a decision that will impact us long after he's gone.

There’s not a decision to make, or consult us about, as it’s not happening.

[B.H.F.C]

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The headline figure looks great but when you break it down in reality it's not all that much more. Probably not even enough to compete with middle to top end championship clubs in England let alone the Premier League.

If you add in the teams from Holland and Belgium then I think it's potentially a goer but not without them. There's just not enough big name clubs in it to make it interesting.

Celtic and Rangers would also still be the biggest clubs in it and would likely be the most successful teams.

Agree. Also, while there would be a novelty aspect to it initially, there is one thing that would see ER full every week and that’s winning games and competing at the right end of the league, whether we’re playing Hamilton or Valarenga.

I’m not totally dismissive of it because it’ll happen at some point in my life, whether I like it or not I think. But folk need to be realistic if they think we would have players like McGinn for longer and be paying them 20k a week because of this.

[chippy]

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Some jump to suddenly be paying players £20k a week.

£900m, split equally over the 6 years, amounts to £7.5m a year for each team. However, we’d likely be receiving less than that as presumably it’d be based on league position and we wouldn’t be at the top end I wouldn’t think.

So deduct the TV money we wouldn’t be seeing, add in our additional costs (imagine it would cost the club a 7 figure sum over a season for travelling away to Europe every couple of weeks).

Best case scenario, initially, you are a few million quid better off a year. Aberdeen, for example, currently bring in a few million quid more than us each year but they’re not paying anyone £20k a week.

On McGinn, he reportedly left us for in excess of £20k a week and ended up on £60k odd a week when he signed his new contract.


Not saying it wouldn’t make us better if financially, but to think we suddenly end up paying that type of money is crazy IMO.

Ok fair comment. I’d thought it was a 4 year deal. I’d imagine it will be closer to an even split of tv money unlike the spfl. Do you not think sponsorship would dramatically increase as we enter a market of 30 million? That our season tickets will increase? That we’ll likely have to fill in the corners ? With better players might we do much better in qualifying and progressing in the Europa league or Conference league. Villa would not have needed to pay SJM 20k pweek at that time. I think 10-15k more likely. So yes we could have afforded to pay our top man that for season or 2 on having an extra 5-7.5 million per year

[The Modfather]

Playing devils advocate, a lot of people criticise or have no interest in the champions league, for example, as it’s about making the same dozen or so clubs richer and ensuring they are always in the latter rounds. Is that much different to a league based on size of clubs because we’re potentially on the inside this time and it’s ok for us to chase the money? What happens to the Scottish clubs we leave behind?

I’d be open to a proposal and would judge it on merit, but suspect I’d probably not be in favour of it or end up drifting away from Hibs once the novelty wears off.

[MWHIBBIES]

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There’s not a decision to make, or consult us about, as it’s not happening.

I very much agree with you mate. Its fantasy talk, based on very, very little.

[B.H.F.C]

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Ok fair comment. I’d thought it was a 4 year deal. I’d imagine it will be closer to an even split of tv money unlike the spfl. Do you not think sponsorship would dramatically increase as we enter a market of 30 million? That our season tickets will increase? That we’ll likely have to fill in the corners ? With better players might we do much better in qualifying and progressing in the Europa league or Conference league. Villa would not have needed to pay SJM 20k pweek at that time. I think 10-15k more likely. So yes we could have afforded to pay our top man that for season or 2 on having an extra 5-7.5 million per year

I think it’s easy to chuck a lot of numbers about, but can only base it against what has actually been reported. Not sure the money would be split evenly, it’s prize money so teams performing better will always get more.

I don’t think it automatically means bigger crowds, no. Winning games does that, regardless of the opposition.

Sponsorship, yes potential there I’ll give you there.

On the point of wages, it’s not a case of just giving one player £15k a week. Yes players will earn varying amounts but you can’t have a squad of players earning £3k a week with the odd player earning 5 times that. It wouldn’t work like that. Yes you’d have an increased budget but it would be spread across the squad.

[Stonewall]

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RG will be massively failing his customers by not even consulting them on a decision that will impact us long after he's gone.

He would also be failing us massively by not actively considering alternatives.

[offshorehibby]

Personally i don't fancy it. Looking at the various leagues mentioned i can see us being mid table regularly. If we say no and the top 5 Scottish clubs say yes and move, what are we left with top of the also rans league.

If Celtic are holding back for some reason then you can bet your boots the huns will be looking at the same avenues.

I'll still be supporting the Hibs though

[Smartie]

This stuff normally rears its head after an abysmal Scotland result that cements our underachievement as a nation at international level and we spend the next few weeks incessantly discussing the number of teams in the top league of Scottish football like that's the problem.

Maybe this chat was pre-prepared by a lazy journo in anticipation of us doing the usual over the past few weeks?

I'm a bit lukewarm about it. Hibs at Easter Road will hopefully always interest me. Pushing to be the strongest we can be within the current set up, becoming a hot bed of young players who grow into teams who punch above their weight and get properly in about the OF and start to make good progress in European football would probably be my ideal.

If this league happened then I'd like to think I wouldn't be done with football altogether. I can't say more games against moderate European opposition in a league with zero history or tradition really gets my juices flowing or represents any sort of an improvement on what we currently have. History would tell us that if we got slightly more money, rather than actually have a better team we'd end up just wasting it anyway.

[easty]

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Then the traditional fans are impoverishing Hibs with their michty me parochialism. I'd rather see games v the Scandinavian teams then Hamilton, that's for sure.

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I think the appeal would quickly turn to boredom.

4th and 5th in Sweden last season were AIK and Norrkoping.
4th and 5th in Norway were Odd and Viking.

None of them seem more exciting than playing Hamilton to me.

[Hibee Mac]

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Playing devils advocate, a lot of people criticise or have no interest in the champions league, for example, as it’s about making the same dozen or so clubs richer and ensuring they are always in the latter rounds. Is that much different to a league based on size of clubs because we’re potentially on the inside this time and it’s ok for us to chase the money? What happens to the Scottish clubs we leave behind?

I’d be open to a proposal and would judge it on merit, but suspect I’d probably not be in favour of it or end up drifting away from Hibs once the novelty wears off.

The clubs left behind remain in a reorganised top Scottish League who then have the opportunity each year to be promoted into the newly created Atlantic league or whatever they call it.

Makes sense to me that the first year would be based on size of teams for financial reasons but then there is full opportunity to be relegated and promoted to and from the league's from then on.

I'd be keen for us to investigate something like that if it improved the standard of players and football we watch at Hibs.

Suppose you could argue that it would give us less chance of securing European cup football?

[Ozyhibby]

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The clubs left behind remain in a reorganised top Scottish League who then have the opportunity each year to be promoted into the newly created Atlantic league or whatever they call it.

Makes sense to me that the first year would be based on size of teams for financial reasons but then there is full opportunity to be relegated and promoted to and from the league's from then on.

I'd be keen for us to investigate something like that if it improved the standard of players and football we watch at Hibs.

Suppose you could argue that it would give us less chance of securing European cup football?

Or you could say it’s guaranteed European football.


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[Lendo]

I imagine Celtic will have been looking for some special treatment like a veto vote or something. Didn’t get it so chucked the toys out of the pram.

[chippy]

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I imagine Celtic will have been looking for some special treatment like a veto vote or something. Didn’t get it so chucked the toys out of the pram.

Celtic would fancy topping that league so maybe they were against splitting the revenues more evenly?

[B.H.F.C]

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Celtic would fancy topping that league so maybe they were against splitting the revenues more evenly?

Is there anything to suggest any revenues would be split evenly? I’m not sure there will be many (any?) leagues where that happens.

[hibbysam]

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Some jump to suddenly be paying players £20k a week.

£900m, split equally over the 6 years, amounts to £7.5m a year for each team. However, we’d likely be receiving less than that as presumably it’d be based on league position and we wouldn’t be at the top end I wouldn’t think.

So deduct the TV money we wouldn’t be seeing, add in our additional costs (imagine it would cost the club a 7 figure sum over a season for travelling away to Europe every couple of weeks).

Best case scenario, initially, you are a few million quid better off a year. Aberdeen, for example, currently bring in a few million quid more than us each year but they’re not paying anyone £20k a week.

On McGinn, he reportedly left us for in excess of £20k a week and ended up on £60k odd a week when he signed his new contract.

Not saying it wouldn’t make us better if financially, but to think we suddenly end up paying that type of money is crazy IMO.

Let’s not try and talk sense on the proposals. Filling in corners 😂 boys falling over themselves to come play for hibs because we suddenly start paying players £20k per week, in the quest for what? A mid table Atlantic league finish that has zero benefits other than revenue (potentially, but probably not). Chances of UEFA buying into it are slim so likelihood of no European football, no domestic cups and the death of the domestic Scottish game.

I’d wager a pretty large bet that in 40 years time I’ll still be watching Hibs in a domestic Scottish league, competing with the same clubs.

[The Modfather]

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The clubs left behind remain in a reorganised top Scottish League who then have the opportunity each year to be promoted into the newly created Atlantic league or whatever they call it.

Makes sense to me that the first year would be based on size of teams for financial reasons but then there is full opportunity to be relegated and promoted to and from the league's from then on.

I'd be keen for us to investigate something like that if it improved the standard of players and football we watch at Hibs.

Suppose you could argue that it would give us less chance of securing European cup football?

What about the financial hit they would have to take of not getting the away supports of the biggest clubs in the country that have left, and the drop in sponsorship and prize money that would lead to. Even if there was promotion the teams left behind would be, in most cases, little more than cannon fodder before getting relegated again given the disparity of the money they get in the SPL versus what the teams they would be up against have been getting in the European league.

[CMurdoch]

A non starter for Rangers and Celtic who would still be massive clubs compared to the rest so they wouldn't get the massive increased revenue they crave.

3rd biggest team would be Hammarby from Sweden who have average crowds of 24,000
4th AIK from Sweden who have average crowds of 19,000
Then you have Hibs & Hearts 5th & 6th after that.

So a non starter

[Smartie]

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A non starter for Rangers and Celtic who would still be massive clubs compared to the rest so they wouldn't get the massive increased revenue they crave.

3rd biggest team would be Hammarby from Sweden who have average crowds of 24,000
4th AIK from Sweden who have average crowds of 19,000
Then you have Hibs & Hearts 5th & 6th after that.

So a non starter

Yeah.

There's probably somebody somewhere talking about TV revenues as if it will attract all sorts of new people to watch this interesting new league - which it wouldn't really, other than the folk who might have gone to an away game who then couldn't because it is too far away and in a really expensive country.

[CMurdoch]

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Yeah.

There's probably somebody somewhere talking about TV revenues as if it will attract all sorts of new people to watch this interesting new league - which it wouldn't really, other than the folk who might have gone to an away game who then couldn't because it is too far away and in a really expensive country.

Even Belgium's biggest team Club Brugge only average crowds of 25,000

Celtic & Rangers will forever have their noses against the English Premiership window but will never be allowed in

[Ozyhibby]

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A non starter for Rangers and Celtic who would still be massive clubs compared to the rest so they wouldn't get the massive increased revenue they crave.

3rd biggest team would be Hammarby from Sweden who have average crowds of 24,000
4th AIK from Sweden who have average crowds of 19,000
Then you have Hibs & Hearts 5th & 6th after that.

So a non starter

Moving from a TV market of 5m people to one of 25m people will obviously bring in larger media revenue as well a much bigger commercial revenues.
The only way some sort of change doesn’t come is if the owners of these clubs suddenly develop an emotional attachment to their domestic leagues.
The reason Celtic will have gone cold on this for now is only because they think it’s not quite big enough a market for them and they think there is a bigger move out there for them. Either way, change is on the way.


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[Ozyhibby]

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Even Belgium's biggest team Club Brugge only average crowds of 25,000

Celtic & Rangers will forever have their noses against the English Premiership window but will never be allowed in

And this is why they are looking at this. Do you really believe that something like this won’t happen?


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[Hibee Mac]

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What about the financial hit they would have to take of not getting the away supports of the biggest clubs in the country that have left, and the drop in sponsorship and prize money that would lead to. Even if there was promotion the teams left behind would be, in most cases, little more than cannon fodder before getting relegated again given the disparity of the money they get in the SPL versus what the teams they would be up against have been getting in the European league.

A good point and something that would need to be thoroughly thought out and addressed before something like this went ahead.

The ones "left behind" so to speak would argue that it would leave a gap in revenue between the top and 2nd leagues far too great, maybe some would need to trickle down the league's a bit more to make it work? Not sure how it would work tbh but would need to address these kind of issues otherwise it should be a non starter

[easty]

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And this is why they are looking at this. Do you really believe that something like this won’t happen?


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Yes

[easty]

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Moving from a TV market of 5m people to one of 25m people will obviously bring in larger media revenue as well a much bigger commercial revenues.
The only way some sort of change doesn’t come is if the owners of these clubs suddenly develop an emotional attachment to their domestic leagues.
The reason Celtic will have gone cold on this for now is only because they think it’s not quite big enough a market for them and they think there is a bigger move out there for them. Either way, change is on the way.


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Just because there are more people in the countries combined, doesn’t mean more will watch.

Scotland has a tv market of 5m but how many will watch Hamilton v St Johnstone?

How many of the 25m potential viewers are going to want to watch Viking Stavanger against whatever crappy Irish team was being invited to the Atlantic league? Not many is my guess.

There will be loads who’ll watch the Old Firm game, but there already is.

[jgl07]

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Just because there are more people in the countries combined, doesn’t mean more will watch.

Scotland has a tv market of 5m but how many will watch Hamilton v St Johnstone?

How many of the 25m potential viewers are going to want to watch Viking Stavanger against whatever crappy Irish team was being invited to the Atlantic league? Not many is my guess.

There will be loads who’ll watch the Old Firm game, but there already is.

And a hell of a lot more who will continue to watch the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, and the Bundesliga.

[Ozyhibby]

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Just because there are more people in the countries combined, doesn’t mean more will watch.

Scotland has a tv market of 5m but how many will watch Hamilton v St Johnstone?

How many of the 25m potential viewers are going to want to watch Viking Stavanger against whatever crappy Irish team was being invited to the Atlantic league? Not many is my guess.

There will be loads who’ll watch the Old Firm game, but there already is.

They are more likely to watch once they get familiar with both teams after regularly playing each other. And if both these teams offer a higher quality match than Hamilton v St. Johnstone’s and the outcome affect Hibs similarly then I think more people will watch.


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