TV ban for bar

**Since90+2** · 15-11-2020 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

A sensible and non hyperbolic post.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 15-11-2020 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

Firstly, you claim what junipergreen said isn't fact, then you go on to make up your own fact that turning the TV off would have endangered staff.

The only facts that we know is that there was no social distance in the video. The 'outdoor' bar is in fact an enclosed space. The bar owner has previous. Alcohol brings out the irresponsible in people.

Edit. And Sky made the game free to view on several different platforms so that people didn't have to congregate in large numbers to watch, they could, and probably should, have stayed at home to watch.

**hibbysam** · 15-11-2020 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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Firstly, you claim what junipergreen said isn't fact, then you go on to make up your own fact that turning the TV off would have endangered staff.

The only facts that we know is that there was no social distance in the video. The 'outdoor' bar is in fact an enclosed space. The bar owner has previous. Alcohol brings out the irresponsible in people.

Your last point answers your first point, thanks. I never stated it as a fact, however alcohol, plus the importance and the time of the game tells me that those weren’t going to just walk out of the pub without any issues had the TV’s been turned off, and doesn’t answer what would have happened had Serbia not scored their equaliser right before you wanted them turned off.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 15-11-2020 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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Firstly, you claim what junipergreen said isn't fact, then you go on to make up your own fact that turning the TV off would have endangered staff.

The only facts that we know is that there was no social distance in the video. The 'outdoor' bar is in fact an enclosed space. The bar owner has previous. Alcohol brings out the irresponsible in people.

Edit. And Sky made the game free to view on several different platforms so that people didn't have to congregate in large numbers to watch, they could, and probably should, have stayed at home to watch.

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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Your last point answers your first point, thanks. I never stated it as a fact, however alcohol, plus the importance and the time of the game tells me that those weren’t going to just walk out of the pub without any issues had the TV’s been turned off, and doesn’t answer what would have happened had Serbia not scored their equaliser right before you wanted them turned off.

Eh, yes you did!

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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😂😂😂 couldnt care less about the bar to be fair, been on a night out in Aberdeen about twice in my life.

Secondly, your ‘facts’ aren’t facts, they’re guesswork at this moment. You don’t know that the 6/2 rule wasn’t enforced. But if it wasn’t then the bar should be punished, like any should.

What is sensible or not isn’t the law. I’m sure the local licensing board will decide whether their tables worked within the remit of their licence, again, if they didn’t they will be punished.

Your another that seems to think turning the tele off earlier would have solved all issues, completely disregarding the safety of staff, and the fact that if they did so it would’ve been even more dangerous, remembering at that point no one could have known Scotland would win on penalties.

My argument is IF the bar followed their rules (households, time etc) then they can’t be to blame. The blame lies with those celebrating, and I totally understand it, it was a natural reaction. The same as the pub in Helensburgh, and in Inverness, and I’d imagine the many many more not captured on someone’s phone. As far as I know no report has been concluded and no punishments given, until then it’s probably best not to speculate based on your own ‘facts’.

And the solution to prevent it happening at all.

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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Edit. And Sky made the game free to view on several different platforms so that people didn't have to congregate in large numbers to watch, they could, and probably should, have stayed at home to watch.

***Speedy*** · 15-11-2020 09:08 AM

Should the Scotland players be punished for their after match celebrations?

Is the rule not that they should be socially distant except when on the pitch?

***CropleyWasGod*** · 15-11-2020 09:11 AM

The pub has been told by ACC to remove all Tv's by tomorrow

.https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/6281275/aberdeen-pub-tv-ban-scotland-euro-celebrations/

***PatHead*** · 15-11-2020 09:36 AM

No matter how anyone feels about the rights and wrongs of that pub, I suspect that it has put back the likelihood of fans getting into football matches back by some distance.

For anyone who wants to believe it, that will have proved some football fans can't be trusted.

Won't have done any help to anyone who wants drink in stadiums either.

**hibbysam** · 15-11-2020 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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Eh, yes you did!

And the solution to prevent it happening at all.

Exactly it would’ve disregarded their safety due to the risk of it kicking off, which having been around drunken people for a long time would’ve been extremely likely.

Your last point reiterates that the punters are to blame by going out. There were no rules stating what time tvs were to be off by other than the doors closed at 10.30.

All of your points back up the idea of irresponsible punters for a couple of minutes rather than irresponsible pub owner.

***CropleyWasGod*** · 15-11-2020 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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Exactly it would’ve disregarded their safety due to the risk of it kicking off, which having been around drunken people for a long time would’ve been extremely likely.

Your last point reiterates that the punters are to blame by going out. There were no rules stating what time tvs were to be off by other than the doors closed at 10.30.

All of your points back up the idea of irresponsible punters for a couple of minutes rather than irresponsible pub owner.

The two aren't mutually incompatible. However, the pub owner seems to have accepted some blame, according to that news report.

**hibbysam** · 15-11-2020 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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The two aren't mutually incompatible. However, the pub owner seems to have accepted some blame, according to that news report.

‘We truly hoped and believed we could provide a safe way for customers to enjoy this crucial match and that we could do that within the existing regulations. We took all steps we could to fully comply with those regulations’

That says more about the regulations than the pub. If the TV’s had been turned off, what time do they get turned off? After full time? The same would’ve happened with a 90th minute goal, or full time in a win. Punters would then have got their phones out and the same scenario would likely have unfolded.

The pub owner can’t tell the future, he looks from the outside like he’s met all regulations and tried his best, exuberance has took over and unfortunately staff and security can’t stop that. If the government never wanted these scenes then they should have closed the pubs for the night, very simple. It wasn’t just one pub, it was numerous pubs all over tier 2 and below that had the same issues.

***CockneyRebel*** · 15-11-2020 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by PatHead

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Sorry but I wouldn't have been saying how irresponsible it was so don't put words in my mouth.

It could and probably should have been done when the police came in.

It is the publicans responsibility to ensure a safe environment for all the punters. He failed to do so by allowing so many people in. It is therefore his fault.

Anyway I'm bored of your constant defending of the indefensible so let's just leave it at that.

Ditto.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 15-11-2020 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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Exactly it would’ve disregarded their safety due to the risk of it kicking off, which having been around drunken people for a long time would’ve been extremely likely.

Your last point reiterates that the punters are to blame by going out. There were no rules stating what time tvs were to be off by other than the doors closed at 10.30.

All of your points back up the idea of irresponsible punters for a couple of minutes rather than irresponsible pub owner.

Even though the pub owner, who has other pubs in the city, has previously ignored restrictions by allowing more people into bars than can socially distance? And allowing people to drink in an idoor setting?

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...r-bosses-told/

***Moulin Yarns*** · 15-11-2020 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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‘We truly hoped and believed we could provide a safe way for customers to enjoy this crucial match and that we could do that within the existing regulations. We took all steps we could to fully comply with those regulations’

That says more about the regulations than the pub. If the TV’s had been turned off, what time do they get turned off? After full time? The same would’ve happened with a 90th minute goal, or full time in a win. Punters would then have got their phones out and the same scenario would likely have unfolded.

The pub owner can’t tell the future, he looks from the outside like he’s met all regulations and tried his best, exuberance has took over and unfortunately staff and security can’t stop that. If the government never wanted these scenes then they should have closed the pubs for the night, very simple. It wasn’t just one pub, it was numerous pubs all over tier 2 and below that had the same issues.

You keep going on about the TV being turned off, the solution which Aberdeen Council have belatedly come up with, would have meant none of the scenes that occurred, which the bar owner should have foreseen.

**hibbysam** · 15-11-2020 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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You keep going on about the TV being turned off, the solution which Aberdeen Council have belatedly come up with, would have meant none of the scenes that occurred, which the bar owner should have foreseen.

It’s you that keeps going on about that being the solution. The council have told them to remove the TV’s to stop them going on in the first place, at no point did the council tell pubs they couldn’t show the game. Your suggestion was to turn the game off half way through and expect there to be zero problems from that. I’m telling you how daft a suggestion that sounds and how there would be no guarantees that wouldn’t cause bigger problems. The council put the regulations in place, the bars follow them. If they regulations aren’t good enough that’s not the pubs problem.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 15-11-2020 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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It’s you that keeps going on about that being the solution. The council have told them to remove the TV’s to stop them going on in the first place, at no point did the council tell pubs they couldn’t show the game. Your suggestion was to turn the game off half way through and expect there to be zero problems from that. I’m telling you how daft a suggestion that sounds and how there would be no guarantees that wouldn’t cause bigger problems. The council put the regulations in place, the bars follow them. If they regulations aren’t good enough that’s not the pubs problem.

You must be getting me mixed up with someone else. I'm an advocate of quiet pubs with no Telly, jukebox or other distractions from the enjoyment of a meal and drink with family and friends.

If there had been no television in the first place then this 'discussion' wouldn't be happening. I also said, Sky made it free to view so there was no need for crowds to congregate in bars to watch it.

Let's see your argument against that?

**hibbysam** · 15-11-2020 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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You must be getting me mixed up with someone else. I'm an advocate of quiet pubs with no Telly, jukebox or other distractions from the enjoyment of a meal and drink with family and friends.

If there had been no television in the first place then this 'discussion' wouldn't be happening. I also said, Sky made it free to view so there was no need for crowds to congregate in bars to watch it.

Let's see your argument against that?

Apologies, someone before had said that the TV’s should’ve been turned off before extra time, which in my opinion would have caused far greater issue. I agree no TV’s would’ve meant no issues, but that’s a decision for the council to make.

I’ve not got an argument against it other than it was the punters choice to go out and watch the game, instead of in their house on free to air tele. Our Scottish cup tie was on BBC, yet if the pubs were open I’d have been down the pub watching it. That would be my choice though, the pub wouldn’t have forced me to go.

***Moulin Yarns*** · 18-11-2020 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by hibbysam

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Apologies, someone before had said that the TV’s should’ve been turned off before extra time, which in my opinion would have caused far greater issue. I agree no TV’s would’ve meant no issues, but that’s a decision for the council to make.

I’ve not got an argument against it other than it was the punters choice to go out and watch the game, instead of in their house on free to air tele. Our Scottish cup tie was on BBC, yet if the pubs were open I’d have been down the pub watching it. That would be my choice though, the pub wouldn’t have forced me to go.

The pub could have taken the action not to have the telly on and there would be none of the scenes. A decision they decided not to take because it would mean less customers.

***J-C*** · 18-11-2020 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

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The pub could have taken the action not to have the telly on and there would be none of the scenes. A decision they decided not to take because it would mean less customers.

This was the same pub that was chocka block when Aberdeen played Rangers and the game was on the telly and the spike happened, the owners were only interested in making money without a care for rules.