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Thread: Nations League

  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Yes I accept it sounds cheerless in the wake of the euphoria around qualification, but the fact remains that the only teams we beat to get to the play-off were Israel and Albania. There also seemed to be much over-egging of what a dynamite side Serbia are when in fact they're only ranked 30th in the world - hardly a monumental scalp when you consider Scotland are 45th.

    As others have pointed out on another thread, this just doesn't stack up as the success it's being billed as. We failed dismally (as usual) in the qualication group proper and were thrown a lifeline by the Nations League which seems to me to be set up in order to allow teams who weren't otherwise good enough the chance to play at a major tournament. I don't really understand its rationale.

    Granted Scotland appear to be developing into a different beast under Clarke, but Covid has given him a lot of unexpected additional time to develop the team and I'll be a lot more impressed when we qualify for a tournament via the group route.

    I may just be getting old and cynical, but as somebody who can recall Scotland at the 1974 World Cup and numerous tournaments when our frustration centred around our inability to reach the latter stages rather than 22 years of failure to even qualify I just feel a bit underwhelmed by the way we've reached this one.
    After 22 years I don’t care. Everyone (eventually) figured out and knew how important the Nations League was (and we nearly messed that up (Israel away and the nervy win at home).

    TBH after getting humped 3-0 by Kazakstan back in 2019 I’d have taken another civil war to qualify (see Denmark in 1992).

    J


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
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    Going by the UEFA website though, itís the two best ranked Nations League group winners, who havenít already qualified or reached the playoffs, who get the remaining playoff slots. So unless we won our Nations League group, we wouldnít get one.
    I think thatís a typo, itís been reported everywhere that itís the two highest ranked sides not already qualified.

  4. #33
    Testimonial Due Gordy M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Yes I accept it sounds cheerless in the wake of the euphoria around qualification, but the fact remains that the only teams we beat to get to the play-off were Israel and Albania. There also seemed to be much over-egging of what a dynamite side Serbia are when in fact they're only ranked 30th in the world - hardly a monumental scalp when you consider Scotland are 45th.

    As others have pointed out on another thread, this just doesn't stack up as the success it's being billed as. We failed dismally (as usual) in the qualication group proper and were thrown a lifeline by the Nations League which seems to me to be set up in order to allow teams who weren't otherwise good enough the chance to play at a major tournament. I don't really understand its rationale.

    Granted Scotland appear to be developing into a different beast under Clarke, but Covid has given him a lot of unexpected additional time to develop the team and I'll be a lot more impressed when we qualify for a tournament via the group route.

    I may just be getting old and cynical, but as somebody who can recall Scotland at the 1974 World Cup and numerous tournaments when our frustration centred around our inability to reach the latter stages rather than 22 years of failure to even qualify I just feel a bit underwhelmed by the way we've reached this one.
    See since you referenced 1974, how many games did Scotland play and win to qualify for that World Cup?

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    Given they seemed to still be in Belgrade this lunchtime assuming they will fly to a Slovakia from Serbia. Probably also then fly to Israel from there for Wednesday.
    Good tournament practice.

    J

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    I think thatís a typo, itís been reported everywhere that itís the two highest ranked sides not already qualified.
    So winning the group is irrelevant. In that case, is it not better to stay in the ďweakerĒ pot for the next Euros so as to keep our parachute?

    J

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Yes I accept it sounds cheerless in the wake of the euphoria around qualification, but the fact remains that the only teams we beat to get to the play-off were Israel and Albania. There also seemed to be much over-egging of what a dynamite side Serbia are when in fact they're only ranked 30th in the world - hardly a monumental scalp when you consider Scotland are 45th.

    As others have pointed out on another thread, this just doesn't stack up as the success it's being billed as. We failed dismally (as usual) in the qualication group proper and were thrown a lifeline by the Nations League which seems to me to be set up in order to allow teams who weren't otherwise good enough the chance to play at a major tournament. I don't really understand its rationale.

    Granted Scotland appear to be developing into a different beast under Clarke, but Covid has given him a lot of unexpected additional time to develop the team and I'll be a lot more impressed when we qualify for a tournament via the group route.

    I may just be getting old and cynical, but as somebody who can recall Scotland at the 1974 World Cup and numerous tournaments when our frustration centred around our inability to reach the latter stages rather than 22 years of failure to even qualify I just feel a bit underwhelmed by the way we've reached this one.
    You keep saying this, but again, we would have got into the playoffs based on our finishing position in qualification. The playoffs have always been there, and the teams that were in the playoffs were essentially those that wouldíve been anyway based on the qualifiers, plus a few additions, and none of those additions qualified, so the cream rose to the top anyway.

    Like I said previously, do you think Portugal felt underwhelmed at winning the tournament after qualifying in third place from a group of 4, just because previously the top two qualified? Change happens, thats life. Iíll not care one bit if we qualify for the World Cup through the same (but harder) route.

  8. #37
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Yes I accept it sounds cheerless in the wake of the euphoria around qualification, but the fact remains that the only teams we beat to get to the play-off were Israel and Albania. There also seemed to be much over-egging of what a dynamite side Serbia are when in fact they're only ranked 30th in the world - hardly a monumental scalp when you consider Scotland are 45th.

    As others have pointed out on another thread, this just doesn't stack up as the success it's being billed as. We failed dismally (as usual) in the qualication group proper and were thrown a lifeline by the Nations League which seems to me to be set up in order to allow teams who weren't otherwise good enough the chance to play at a major tournament. I don't really understand its rationale.

    Granted Scotland appear to be developing into a different beast under Clarke, but Covid has given him a lot of unexpected additional time to develop the team and I'll be a lot more impressed when we qualify for a tournament via the group route.

    I may just be getting old and cynical, but as somebody who can recall Scotland at the 1974 World Cup and numerous tournaments when our frustration centred around our inability to reach the latter stages rather than 22 years of failure to even qualify I just feel a bit underwhelmed by the way we've reached this one.
    You make some valid points and I agree that qualifying through the normal group route will be the real achievement for me but I do think qualifying by any means is huge for the country and will hopefully see us go from strength to strength. Hopefully we go there next year and give a good account of ourselves and qualifying becomes the norm like it was 40-50 years ago.

    After 22 years (23 by the team we kick off the tournament) it was just important to actually get there.
    HIBERNIAN F.C. - SCOTTISH CUP WINNERS 2016

    21.05.2016

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Yes I accept it sounds cheerless in the wake of the euphoria around qualification, but the fact remains that the only teams we beat to get to the play-off were Israel and Albania. There also seemed to be much over-egging of what a dynamite side Serbia are when in fact they're only ranked 30th in the world - hardly a monumental scalp when you consider Scotland are 45th.

    As others have pointed out on another thread, this just doesn't stack up as the success it's being billed as. We failed dismally (as usual) in the qualication group proper and were thrown a lifeline by the Nations League which seems to me to be set up in order to allow teams who weren't otherwise good enough the chance to play at a major tournament. I don't really understand its rationale.

    Granted Scotland appear to be developing into a different beast under Clarke, but Covid has given him a lot of unexpected additional time to develop the team and I'll be a lot more impressed when we qualify for a tournament via the group route.

    I may just be getting old and cynical, but as somebody who can recall Scotland at the 1974 World Cup and numerous tournaments when our frustration centred around our inability to reach the latter stages rather than 22 years of failure to even qualify I just feel a bit underwhelmed by the way we've reached this one.
    What additional time did COVID give him? He played the same number of games and had the players for the same amount of time? Did COVID help him when he had Tierney, Christie and Armstrong were ruled out of the last three games?

    You seem desperate to be miserable about something positive.

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    So winning the group is irrelevant. In that case, is it not better to stay in the ďweakerĒ pot for the next Euros so as to keep our parachute?

    J
    No, itís not irrelevant. If we stay in pot 2/B(whatever it is called), the best we could finish would be 17th, if we get into pot 1/A then the worst we can finish is 16th. This would ultimately give us the best chance of getting into the World Cup playoffs.

    Even if we then got relegated, weíd still be in the second pot for the euros campaign, but be ranked/seeded higher for the actual qualifying campaign.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    No, itís not irrelevant. If we stay in pot 2/B(whatever it is called), the best we could finish would be 17th, if we get into pot 1/A then the worst we can finish is 16th. This would ultimately give us the best chance of getting into the World Cup playoffs.

    Even if we then got relegated, weíd still be in the second pot for the euros campaign, but be ranked/seeded higher for the actual qualifying campaign.
    Oh, in that case, full steam ahead, 6 points please.

    J

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member Green Man's Avatar
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    Away from Scotland, Luxembourg are sitting top of their group in League C, level on points with Montenegro. Thatís very impressive for a nation which for so long was right down at the bottom of the rankings.

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
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    Away from Scotland, Luxembourg are sitting top of their group in League C, level on points with Montenegro. Thatís very impressive for a nation which for so long was right down at the bottom of the rankings.
    Faroes too, although in league D, well ahead of Latvia and Malta.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Diclonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    I think thatís a typo, itís been reported everywhere that itís the two highest ranked sides not already qualified.
    No, it's definitely group winners only. If you finish second in one of the league A groups you get **** all.


  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    No, it's definitely group winners only. If you finish second in one of the league A groups you get **** all.

    So going by that being drawn in A1 gives you a better ranking than A4, even though thatís luck of the draw? Doubt that. Thatís been taken from the UEFA website, that may well be right, however Iíll await better judgement on that. I highly doubt league D is getting a route into the World Cup playoffs. Itís also far more beneficial when it comes to the next Euroís that we get into League A.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member The 90+2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    So going by that being drawn in A1 gives you a better ranking than A4, even though thatís luck of the draw? Doubt that. Thatís been taken from the UEFA website, that may well be right, however Iíll await better judgement on that. I highly doubt league D is getting a route into the World Cup playoffs. Itís also far more beneficial when it comes to the next Euroís that we get into League A.

    Sounds like paper talk to me.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member Diclonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    So going by that being drawn in A1 gives you a better ranking than A4, even though thatís luck of the draw? Doubt that. Thatís been taken from the UEFA website, that may well be right, however Iíll await better judgement on that. I highly doubt league D is getting a route into the World Cup playoffs. Itís also far more beneficial when it comes to the next Euroís that we get into League A.
    It won't work like that - it'll be whoever has the most points from each of the group winners i.e. if A2 have 10 points and A1 have 9, A2 will be given priority.

    Chances are A1-4 will all qualify directly, as will some of the B winners. It's likely that whoever doesn't directly qualify out of B and maybe 1 from C will get the extra playoff places.

  18. #47
    Testimonial Due SJNB Hibby's Avatar
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    So who do we want relegated from the Pool A groups.
    I feel Scotland are a "I'll have your 2nd cheapest wine" We'' slip up agaisnt the lowest seesd, but we certainly dont want relish Germany Spain France etc.
    As I write, Ukraine are beating Germany -- that pretty much condemns Switzerland to relegation, but Ukraine not a bad option. Let's face it, we'll be hoping to finish a strong 3rd in our group.
    Group 3 relegated team likely to be Sweden, unless they beat Croatia today
    Group 1---complete toss-up, but would certainly not fear Bosnia or Poland, so happy to see Holland relegated
    Group 2---Iceland are done

    The other teams coming up with us?? Likely Austria/Norway, Russia/Hungary, and Wales/Finland---nothing to be quaking about there. Lets get those 2 points

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNB Hibby View Post
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    So who do we want relegated from the Pool A groups.
    I feel Scotland are a "I'll have your 2nd cheapest wine" We'' slip up agaisnt the lowest seesd, but we certainly dont want relish Germany Spain France etc.
    As I write, Ukraine are beating Germany -- that pretty much condemns Switzerland to relegation, but Ukraine not a bad option. Let's face it, we'll be hoping to finish a strong 3rd in our group.
    Group 3 relegated team likely to be Sweden, unless they beat Croatia today
    Group 1---complete toss-up, but would certainly not fear Bosnia or Poland, so happy to see Holland relegated
    Group 2---Iceland are done

    The other teams coming up with us?? Likely Austria/Norway, Russia/Hungary, and Wales/Finland---nothing to be quaking about there. Lets get those 2 points
    Germany turned that around in a hurry

  20. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Diclonius View Post
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    It won't work like that - it'll be whoever has the most points from each of the group winners i.e. if A2 have 10 points and A1 have 9, A2 will be given priority.

    Chances are A1-4 will all qualify directly, as will some of the B winners. It's likely that whoever doesn't directly qualify out of B and maybe 1 from C will get the extra playoff places.
    Want to apologise, it is the league winners, however this is the nations league that it is taken from, the next one isnít until 2022. Therefore we would be one of the group B winners, and providing majority of those above us reach World Cup automatically or the playoffs through the traditional method, then we would be in the playoffs as well.

    Forgot next year is World Cup qualifying year so no nations league until 2022.

  21. #50
    @hibs.net private member Green Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    Want to apologise, it is the league winners, however this is the nations league that it is taken from, the next one isnít until 2022. Therefore we would be one of the group B winners, and providing majority of those above us reach World Cup automatically or the playoffs through the traditional method, then we would be in the playoffs as well.

    Forgot next year is World Cup qualifying year so no nations league until 2022.
    Thatís a point that Iíd completely missed - for some reason I was thinking there was another Nations League campaign between now and the World Cup. This means that winning our current group would give us a pretty decent safety net for the playoffs. Although, given the squad we have now, Iím optimistic about our chances of finishing second in whichever group we end up in.

  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
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    Thatís a point that Iíd completely missed - for some reason I was thinking there was another Nations League campaign between now and the World Cup. This means that winning our current group would give us a pretty decent safety net for the playoffs. Although, given the squad we have now, Iím optimistic about our chances of finishing second in whichever group we end up in.
    So had I, no idea why I hadnít thought of it before. Thereís a few decent pot 2 sides, but likewise some that we should definitely be targeting.

  23. #52
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  24. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    So winning the group is irrelevant. In that case, is it not better to stay in the ďweakerĒ pot for the next Euros so as to keep our parachute?

    J
    No as the next Nations League is for the euro 2024 playoffs and being in League A weíd be pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot even if we lost every game in our group

  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by davhibby View Post
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    No as the next Nations League is for the euro 2024 playoffs and being in League A weíd be pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot even if we lost every game in our group
    Thatís what Iceland did, they lost the playoff though. Every team bar them from Group A qualified for the euroís.

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