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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Leither View Post
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    Two games this season (and countless before now) and we haven't laid a glove on them - but will anyone in the Boardroom challenge Ross with that sentiment?

    I doubt it - but then that's where we seem to be now, happy to trawl around mid-table and despite the new owner's fine words about "a league challenge in future" it still seems we're beset by the old Board's parsimony and caution...it's just got a transatlantic twist on it now.

    A small squad that has absolutely no game changers and a bench containing identikit midfield players and the old guard of Gray and MacGregor to come in on an emergency.

    What do we exactly charge our manager to deliver - regular European football? Parity in the derby fixture (or does that game even rate a mention)? Win 70/80% of your home games?

    I really would be intrigued to know just where the bar is set for Hibs managers, but I suspect we'll only hear from the Board and Gordon when season tickets are needing renewed.
    We battered Aberdeen 3-0 in Ross's first game against them less than a year ago. I'm finding it hard to understand how since then we find them so hard to lay a glove on.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    We battered Aberdeen 3-0 in Ross's first game against them less than a year ago. I'm finding it hard to understand how since then we find them so hard to lay a glove on.
    Aberdeen were awful that day and had several players missing.

    Central midfield for us is a massive issue - Newell while an excellent player at times isnít made for a 4-4-2. Opposition teams and managers know that.

    As others have pointed out there is no coincidence Aberdeen are ahead of us they spend more on wages and also have taken several players we wanted to sign.

    Iím not a McInnes fan or think he will go onto bigger or better things but he seems pretty consistent in Scottish terms getting 3rd in the league. Many Dons are still fed up with him after games like last week against Celtic.

    What frustrates me about last night is the limited reaction after the Derby. Losing a goal 5 mins in and then 2-0 away from home at half time is really difficult to turn around...let alone a place we havenít won since 2012.

    Derbies and Aberdeen games have to be addressed. Old Firm games are different as they are a free hit as they are so far ahead financially any points are a bonus.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCastle View Post
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    Aberdeen were awful that day and had several players missing.

    Central midfield for us is a massive issue - Newell while an excellent player at times isnít made for a 4-4-2. Opposition teams and managers know that.

    As others have pointed out there is no coincidence Aberdeen are ahead of us they spend more on wages and also have taken several players we wanted to sign.

    Iím not a McInnes fan or think he will go onto bigger or better things but he seems pretty consistent in Scottish terms getting 3rd in the league. Many Dons are still fed up with him after games like last week against Celtic.

    What frustrates me about last night is the limited reaction after the Derby. Losing a goal 5 mins in and then 2-0 away from home at half time is really difficult to turn around...let alone a place we havenít won since 2012.

    Derbies and Aberdeen games have to be addressed. Old Firm games are different as they are a free hit as they are so far ahead financially any points are a bonus.
    IIRC Aberdeen had beaten Rangers in the game before we thumped them so I think it's harsh to say it was only down to them being awful that we won. Boyle was on fire that day, with Allan and Kamberi also on song. It seemed to me we were really fired up for the game and I'm just wondering where that fire has gone in subsequent games against them. Granted we gifted them both goals last night, but we really should be offering more - and I fully agree about the lack of reaction after a derby defeat. Very frustrating.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    We were a good bit behind Aberdeen when we we rejoined this league and we are still a good bit behind them now. It's hard to argue against the idea that we have regressed since our 1st season back in the top flight, particularly the latter half of that season. Aberdeen have largely flatlined from that point.

    2 wins in 13 games v them doesn't lie. Neither do the league placings in that time. Neither does the fact they have players in their squad that we wanted in ours. Aberdeen are a better side than us and, both in terms of finance and football ambition, a more attractive option for a player with that choice to make.

    I don't like it but it's the reality. They will win more games against us this season than we win against them and will finish comfortably clear of us in the league.
    Theyíve had continuity since we came back into the league, weíve not.

    I donít think theyíll finish ďcomfortablyĒ ahead of us this season, theyíre favourites for 3rd, but thatís been the case the last 2 seasons too...and theyíve finished 4th in both of them.

    Come the end of the season I would be absolutely amazed if thereís more than 4 or 5 points between us and Aberdeen. Itís a shame though, that for some posters, even if we end up 4th and only a point behind Aberdeen, itíll be described as a failure.

  6. #35
    Testimonial Due The Harp Awakes's Avatar
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    In answer to the OP, sadly it looks that way.

    The 2 clubs of similar size and stature to us are Hearts and Aberdeen. Our results against these 2 clubs over the last 10 years and more has been nothing short of atrocious and is completely unacceptable. Our record at Pittodrie is one thing, but I think that's now 1 win in 11 or 12 games home and away against Aberdeen.

    Yes Hearts and Aberdeen have been able to spend more money than us on players during that time, but the gap isn't so big to merit such an inept record.

    I was optimistic when RG acquired the club, particularly after getting the monkey off our backs in 2016. I thought we'd go on to show more backbone and resilience. Seems to me now that the bad habits of the past are beginning to creep back in. We're becoming too nice again, and I think our recent recruitment, or lack of it, hasn't helped. We need players and coaching staff who have fire in their bellies and who can show the necessary aggression when needed to succed.

    Aberdeen are an awful team to watch, but we are light years behind them as a club and playing squad in terms of mindset and resilience.

    We have ability in the squad for sure and the Manager and team deserve credit for managing to beat the lesser teams in the league, but we are lacking the necessary leadership and steel at present to move to the next level.

  7. #36
    The problem is weíve been trying to play aberdeen at their own game the last few seasons. I love doidge but thereís always a temptation to hoof it to him and aberdeen will eat that up all day.

    The way to beat aberdeen is to play through them like we did in the 3-0 at easter road. Get guys like scott allan (obviously unavailable now iím aware) on the ball and get passes in behind for guys like boyle to do the damage.

    We used to play them off the park most games under lenny. Quite often we never got the result we deserved (league cup game at ER sticks out where we lost on pens) which maybe contradicts what iím saying but at least we were dominating the game. Weíre not even laying a glove on them these days.

  8. #37
    OK, two bad results. But I'm more than happy with Hibs this season. Good singings, in difficult times remember, and lots to look forward to.

    COYBIG

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  9. #38
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    Just checked and the last time we came back from a goal down to beat Aberdeen was February 2008.

  10. #39
    Testimonial Due Bobby's Cinema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Leither View Post
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    Two games this season (and countless before now) and we haven't laid a glove on them - but will anyone in the Boardroom challenge Ross with that sentiment?

    I doubt it - but then that's where we seem to be now, happy to trawl around mid-table and despite the new owner's fine words about "a league challenge in future" it still seems we're beset by the old Board's parsimony and caution...it's just got a transatlantic twist on it now.

    A small squad that has absolutely no game changers and a bench containing identikit midfield players and the old guard of Gray and MacGregor to come in on an emergency.

    What do we exactly charge our manager to deliver - regular European football? Parity in the derby fixture (or does that game even rate a mention)? Win 70/80% of your home games?

    I really would be intrigued to know just where the bar is set for Hibs managers, but I suspect we'll only hear from the Board and Gordon when season tickets are needing renewed.
    We are a clear 4th in the league, which is well above our average.
    And as I mentioned on another thread, not so long ago it was being touted as our best start in 50 years.

    A knife edge result in our biggest game of the season followed up by poor decisions by players throwing away a nothing game and everything the manager has done the previous 6 months if forgotten is that right?
    Some on here really need to take it down a notch.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magpie View Post
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    Just checked and the last time we came back from a goal down to beat Aberdeen was February 2008.
    I feel even less like weíll get back into a game when we go behind against Aberdeen than I do against the OF.

  12. #41
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    I feel even less like weíll get back into a game when we go behind against Aberdeen than I do against the OF.
    Yep I felt the game was done after 5 minutes last night.
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  13. #42

    renew season ticket for what will we get exactly

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Leither View Post
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    Two games this season (and countless before now) and we haven't laid a glove on them - but will anyone in the Boardroom challenge Ross with that sentiment?

    I doubt it - but then that's where we seem to be now, happy to trawl around mid-table and despite the new owner's fine words about "a league challenge in future" it still seems we're beset by the old Board's parsimony and caution...it's just got a transatlantic twist on it now.

    A small squad that has absolutely no game changers and a bench containing identikit midfield players and the old guard of Gray and MacGregor to come in on an emergency.

    What do we exactly charge our manager to deliver - regular European football? Parity in the derby fixture (or does that game even rate a mention)? Win 70/80% of your home games?

    I really would be intrigued to know just where the bar is set for Hibs managers, but I suspect we'll only hear from the Board and Gordon when season tickets are needing renewed.
    We see an ordinary team with no leader despite of asking for years we still lack that player...we will not progress with the current player pool unless some of them wake up and fight in these so called big games..They have let us down yet again..there is no excuse for lack of fight NO EXCUSE ...It is sad not to go to games having paid to do so but the very least I would expect is fight and a will to win...renew why would we with this set up as it stands.

  14. #43
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    Iíd just like to see us try and play football the way itís meant to be played . Pass and move. Itís really no that difficult but for some strange reason we have a team that really struggles with this concept.

    Iíve been bored ****less watching us this season. Iíve lost almost all interest if Iím being honest. Sad times!

  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve20 View Post
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    Donít worry about ever beating Rangers, Celtic, Hearts or Aberdeen again. Itís acceptable to be turned over regular. (And celebrate a draw at home to the Huns like an actual trophy)

    As long as we beat Hamilton, St Johnstone and Killie by the odd goal, Jack Ross will be the greatest manager that weíve had.
    The truth is that in order to have a good league season the Hamiltons, StJohnstones and Killies ARE the teams you realy do HAVE to beat regularly. That is something we have seen countless Hibs lineups fail to do, so succeeding in that is something to be relished and not belittled (only a quarter of the season in but definite pass marks for Ross so far in this respect).

    Of course the games against the OF, Hearts and Aberdeen are also important - not least because winning them leads to points and trophies - but also because winning them gives everyone a shot in the arm of self belief - from the the stands right through the first team squad to the boardroom. I don't think there's any Hibs fan who is happy at losing any of these fixtures, but it's inevitable that we will lose some of them. Under Ross' reign so far our record in that department leaves something to be desired it's true - I'm sure he wants victories in these games every bit as much any fan though and it's a bit early doors to conclude that he hasn't got the goods to deliver in these games.

    PS - treating a draw vs the huns like a cup win?!? Dinnae be daft!

  16. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    In answer to the OP, sadly it looks that way.

    The 2 clubs of similar size and stature to us are Hearts and Aberdeen. Our results against these 2 clubs over the last 10 years and more has been nothing short of atrocious and is completely unacceptable. Our record at Pittodrie is one thing, but I think that's now 1 win in 11 or 12 games home and away against Aberdeen.

    Yes Hearts and Aberdeen have been able to spend more money than us on players during that time, but the gap isn't so big to merit such an inept record.

    I was optimistic when RG acquired the club, particularly after getting the monkey off our backs in 2016. I thought we'd go on to show more backbone and resilience. Seems to me now that the bad habits of the past are beginning to creep back in. We're becoming too nice again, and I think our recent recruitment, or lack of it, hasn't helped. We need players and coaching staff who have fire in their bellies and who can show the necessary aggression when needed to succed.

    Aberdeen are an awful team to watch, but we are light years behind them as a club and playing squad in terms of mindset and resilience.

    We have ability in the squad for sure and the Manager and team deserve credit for managing to beat the lesser teams in the league, but we are lacking the necessary leadership and steel at present to move to the next level.
    Totally agree. Over the last 18 months, we've lost the few players we had with balls and drive and replaced them with guys with lower standards. Also, not convinced Jack Ross fully understands the standards the fans demand, and set by some of his predecessors. He's far too accepting of uncompetitive performances against the OF, Aberdeen and Hearts.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member jeffers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onion View Post
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    Totally agree. Over the last 18 months, we've lost the few players we had with balls and drive and replaced them with guys with lower standards. Also, not convinced Jack Ross fully understands the standards the fans demand, and set by some of his predecessors. He's far too accepting of uncompetitive performances against the OF, Aberdeen and Hearts.
    Last night is the first time I can remember him coming out and criticising the players. Talk is cheap, but I liked his honesty about his and the teamís performance. I suppose weíll find out very soon against Celtic if they are just hollow words.

  18. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Leither View Post
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    10 players out and 5 in.

    A squad that's threadbare beyond 13/14 players competing for 11 places, and no pressure on those in possession of the jersey.

    We've had effectively 2 forward players in the centre forward position for the last 4-5 years, with a laddie on the bench as "back-up" - Caldwell, Shaw, Gullan as three examples.

    We can debate the semi-final and our luck/the ref until the coo's come hame, but a point that's been made repeatedly on here is they had very experienced players came off the bench and got them a toe-hold back in the game.

    We had no-one like that to call on, because to build a squad of 17-18 players of similar ability and a bit of experience costs MONEY.

    This goes beyond Ross, Heckingbottom, Lennon, and I think "parsimony" is a fair choice of words, because that's the way Hibs operate.

    Oh for a Tom Hart in the boardroom now.
    Hibs work within an agreed budget, given that we have no reve from fans att games, I think Ron Gordon has helped go meet the budget

  19. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    The truth is that in order to have a good league season the Hamiltons, StJohnstones and Killies ARE the teams you realy do HAVE to beat regularly. That is something we have seen countless Hibs lineups fail to do, so succeeding in that is something to be relished and not belittled (only a quarter of the season in but definite pass marks for Ross so far in this respect).

    Of course the games against the OF, Hearts and Aberdeen are also important - not least because winning them leads to points and trophies - but also because winning them gives everyone a shot in the arm of self belief - from the the stands right through the first team squad to the boardroom. I don't think there's any Hibs fan who is happy at losing any of these fixtures, but it's inevitable that we will lose some of them. Under Ross' reign so far our record in that department leaves something to be desired it's true - I'm sure he wants victories in these games every bit as much any fan though and it's a bit early doors to conclude that he hasn't got the goods to deliver in these games.

    PS - treating a draw vs the huns like a cup win?!? Dinnae be daft!
    You canít beat Rantic, the sheep or Hearts without a functioning midfield with a bit of dig and we havenít got one. Thereís no drive or creativity especially as weíre operating with basically two midfielders one of whom is defensive.

    Unfortunately we really donít have the squad members to fix the problem or so it would appear. No idea what the Allan situation is but if heís not going to be involved we need to recruit (need money though)! Hopefully Kyle Magennis will settle in too.

  20. #49
    It seems we always seem to make some really bad mistakes against them, especially away from home which gifts them goals.

    I agree with the poster above about how we beat them previously was was with speed and getting in behind - think even the Doidge game when he missed the 1v1s..he got in behind them.

    I do think some players standards have dropped. No coincidence since the international break too..

    The lack of depth and the team pretty much picking itself is an issue. We could really do with some players pushing for a starting place more like Hallberg etc.

  21. #50
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenCastle View Post
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    It seems we always seem to make some really bad mistakes against them, especially away from home which gifts them goals.

    I agree with the poster above about how we beat them previously was was with speed and getting in behind - think even the Doidge game when he missed the 1v1s..he got in behind them.

    I do think some players standards have dropped. No coincidence since the international break too..

    The lack of depth and the team pretty much picking itself is an issue. We could really do with some players pushing for a starting place more like Hallberg etc.
    I think the reason we didnít get in behind them last night was that, having been gifted 2 very early goals, Aberdeen just sat in and let us play in front of them. There was no space behind them.
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  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I think the reason we didnít get in behind them last night was that, having been gifted 2 very early goals, Aberdeen just sat in and let us play in front of them. There was no space behind them.
    Agreed but goals coming from own basic errors. Game was over after 15 mins

  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Onion View Post
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    Totally agree. Over the last 18 months, we've lost the few players we had with balls and drive and replaced them with guys with lower standards. Also, not convinced Jack Ross fully understands the standards the fans demand, and set by some of his predecessors. He's far too accepting of uncompetitive performances against the OF, Aberdeen and Hearts.
    Who have we lost over the last 18 months that had balls and drive?

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Hibernian Verse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Who have we lost over the last 18 months that had balls and drive?
    The post you've quoted is a cracker. 18 months ago we were just starting under Hecky, and we then contrived to look like relegation contenders in the new season. Fast forward to now and we're sitting 4th with a clear gap to 5th, but we've lost players with balls and drive apparently.

    This place is worse than the Kerrydale Meltdown twitter page just now.

  25. #54
    We're 7 points clear of 5th. Pretty big leap to call in command of 4th spot "mid table"

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I think the reason we didnít get in behind them last night was that, having been gifted 2 very early goals, Aberdeen just sat in and let us play in front of them. There was no space behind them.
    Correct, hence why we had 61% possession. They also had conceded 23 fouls to our 11.

    Itís hard to plan for the kind of basic errors which effectively gifted them the game. Aberdeen are horribly effective at doing the ugly stuff and were never going to relinquish a two goal lead to Hibs. Hibs are at their most effective with swift counter attacking football.

    It was game over after15 minutes.
    [SIGPIC]

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