Gogic

**Andy74** · 22-11-2020 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Winston Ingram

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This. We’ve look so much more solid with him in there.

Yep. Ask for this type of player for ages then criticise the parts of his game that aren’t his strengths. Mental.

He’s an important player and actually a much better footballer than this thread would suggest.

***The Modfather*** · 22-11-2020 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Andy74

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Yep. Ask for this type of player for ages then criticise the parts of his game that aren’t his strengths. Mental.

He’s an important player and actually a much better footballer than this thread would suggest.

I think he’s what we needed, but in the summer that was based on an assumption we would play 3 in the middle. If I knew we’d play as a 2 a lot I’d have wanted a different type of player. I think he can be a big player for us but it’s dependent on the other two beside him and I don’t feel we have those other two in the squad yet(with the exception of Magennis who we’re still to really find out about). We are still a work in progress though and will need another few shrewd transfer windows.

**hibbysam** · 22-11-2020 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Modfather

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I think he’s what we needed, but in the summer that was based on an assumption we would play 3 in the middle. If I knew we’d play as a 2 a lot I’d have wanted a different type of player. I think he can be a big player for us but it’s dependent on the other two beside him and I don’t feel we have those other two in the squad yet(with the exception of Magennis who we’re still to really find out about). We are still a work in progress though and will need another few shrewd transfer windows.

Our problem is that when played in a two, he’s expected to cover a lot of ground, get around the pitch and close down, while also playing football. I personally don’t feel he’s the man for that role. When we then switch to a 3 like Saturday then we need him to sit, be disciplined, not get dragged around the pitch. On Saturday I felt he got dragged around, first half especially, which left a gaping hole in the area where Christie got most of his shots away from. He’s got to have trust in the other two midfielders to do their jobs, and I felt second half we got that much better. It stopped Celtics easy ball in behind our midfield and gave us a foothold in the game. He’s the perfect player for me for the role, he just needs to understand how to sit in there.

***Bostonhibby*** · 23-11-2020 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by murray26

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I’ve not read the thread but we need a upgrade IMO

Just read it, I agree, we need a better thread.

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**HibsGW** · 23-11-2020 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Winston Ingram

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This. We’ve look so much more solid with him in there.

Exact same nonsense criticisms that were levelled at Bartley too. I don’t know if people expect us to have a defensive midfielder with Toni Kroos like passing ability or something, for us, a good holding midfielder is going to be someone who can help break up the play, is probably fairly limited in their own technical ability, and moves the ball onto others. If Gogic had the passing ability of a Scott Allan or something he wouldn’t be here. He does a good job.

**MWHIBBIES** · 23-11-2020 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by HibsGW

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Exact same nonsense criticisms that were levelled at Bartley too. I don’t know if people expect us to have a defensive midfielder with Toni Kroos like passing ability or something, for us, a good holding midfielder is going to be someone who can help break up the play, is probably fairly limited in their own technical ability, and moves the ball onto others. If Gogic had the passing ability of a Scott Allan or something he wouldn’t be here. He does a good job.

Its not nonsense. Marv was an extremely limited player. He actually only ever had 1 real run in the team in the top division. stuggled with anything more than a 15 yard pass and very few of those were forward. He didn't get near the side when Allan rejoined and Dylan went into that role, offering much more.

Gogic is okay but you can see by how often we hoof the ball that he isn't good with it at his feet. He serves his purpose but someone who could take it off the back 4 and move it forward, while losing a little defensively, would make us a better side.

No one expects a defensive player with Toni Kroos ability. One with McGeouch or Fyvies ability would do just fine.

***PH91*** · 23-11-2020 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Peevemor

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He's no Scott Allan, but he can pass fine.

Every footballer at all levels should be able to play simple passes. What gogic is unable to do is get himself into space to take the ball off his teammates and move it. Some will say that is not his job but without that we are forced to play a more direct style which is not easy on the eye. I can't think of any good teams who play with such a limited central midfielder.

He is the best we have at the moment but I hope we are looking to strengthen there and that he will become a player used for specific games rather than a regular starter.

**~~Peevemor~~** · 23-11-2020 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by PH91

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Every footballer at all levels should be able to play simple passes. What gogic is unable to do is get himself into space to take the ball off his teammates and move it. Some will say that is not his job but without that we are forced to play a more direct style which is not easy on the eye. I can't think of any good teams who play with such a limited central midfielder.

He is the best we have at the moment but I hope we are looking to strengthen there and that he will become a player used for specific games rather than a regular starter.

That's a different story, but is he unable to do it or have his teammates been told to do other stuff and not play through him, therefore he doesn't look to do it?

**HibsGW** · 23-11-2020 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES

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Its not nonsense. Marv was an extremely limited player. He actually only ever had 1 real run in the team in the top division. stuggled with anything more than a 15 yard pass and very few of those were forward. He didn't get near the side when Allan rejoined and Dylan went into that role, offering much more.

Gogic is okay but you can see by how often we hoof the ball that he isn't good with it at his feet. He serves his purpose but someone who could take it off the back 4 and move it forward, while losing a little defensively, would make us a better side.

No one expects a defensive player with Toni Kroos ability. One with McGeouch or Fyvies ability would do just fine.

Bartley left and went to a team who finished above us and became their best player. He should never have been allowed to leave. I understand what you’re saying about McGeouch and Fyvie but they are totally different players, they’re central midfielders not defensive midfielders. They dont provide nearly the same amount of defensive cover that Bartley or Gogic do. Midfielders who’s job is to defend first which is a particular role, are usually not going to be the best technical players as they are first and foremost, defensive players. I think your argument is more that you’d rather we didn’t play with a defensive midfielder because you think we’d play better without one. That would be more reasonable.

***superfurryhibby*** · 23-11-2020 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES

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Its not nonsense. Marv was an extremely limited player. He actually only ever had 1 real run in the team in the top division. stuggled with anything more than a 15 yard pass and very few of those were forward. He didn't get near the side when Allan rejoined and Dylan went into that role, offering much more.

Gogic is okay but you can see by how often we hoof the ball that he isn't good with it at his feet. He serves his purpose but someone who could take it off the back 4 and move it forward, while losing a little defensively, would make us a better side.

No one expects a defensive player with Toni Kroos ability. One with McGeouch or Fyvies ability would do just fine.

Agree with this. He’s got a job to do, but it isn”t pretty. Hopefully McGennis can come good and be part of a more creative midfield, along side Newell, Allan or Mallan.

Originally Posted by PH91

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Every footballer at all levels should be able to play simple passes. What gogic is unable to do is get himself into space to take the ball off his teammates and move it. Some will say that is not his job but without that we are forced to play a more direct style which is not easy on the eye. I can't think of any good teams who play with such a limited central midfielder.

He is the best we have at the moment but I hope we are looking to strengthen there and that he will become a player used for specific games rather than a regular starter.

Plays the Matty Jack role without his skill on the ball. Gogic has made us harder to play through, but also limits creativity. His positives outweigh the negatives overall though.

**MWHIBBIES** · 23-11-2020 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by HibsGW

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Bartley left and went to a team who finished above us and became their best player. He should never have been allowed to leave. I understand what you’re saying about McGeouch and Fyvie but they are totally different players, they’re central midfielders not defensive midfielders. They dont provide nearly the same amount of defensive cover that Bartley or Gogic do. Midfielders who’s job is to defend first which is a particular role, are usually not going to be the best technical players as they are first and foremost, defensive players. I think your argument is more that you’d rather we didn’t play with a defensive midfielder because you think we’d play better without one. That would be more reasonable.

Marv started 7 league games in his last season here (we won 2 of them) He was quite rightly allowed to leave. He really wasn't that big a loss. Our midfield was poor when he was still here because we lost McGeouch and McGinn. This idea that Marv was some big loss is way off the mark, always has been. We lost 2 FAR superior players. Marv is still at Livi and they have less than half our points total. They had a decent run while us and Hearts started badly. He got slapped about by Gogic and Newall this season when we hammered Livi 4-1.

I'd say we were much better defensively with Dylan in there instead of Marv. A lot less tackling is needed when you keep the ball better, control the game etc. Notice how Lewis, Gray and McGregor have all struggled since Dylan left? Not an accident. Not all due to age. Him always helping take the ball from them and helping them out of trouble made them look better than they probably were. Thats a vital thing.

I love Marv for his big derby performances and his spirit and attitude but he was never really THAT good. Letting him go was spot on.

**HibsGW** · 23-11-2020 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES

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Marv started 7 league games in his last season here (we won 2 of them) He was quite rightly allowed to leave. He really wasn't that big a loss. Our midfield was poor when he was still here because we lost McGeouch and McGinn. This idea that Marv was some big loss is way off the mark, always has been. We lost 2 FAR superior players. Marv is still at Livi and they have less than half our points total. They had a decent run while us and Hearts started badly. He got slapped about by Gogic and Newall this season when we hammered Livi 4-1.

I'd say we were much better defensively with Dylan in there instead of Marv. A lot less tackling is needed when you keep the ball better, control the game etc. Notice how Lewis, Gray and McGregor have all struggled since Dylan left? Not an accident. Not all due to age. Him always helping take the ball from them and helping them out of trouble made them look better than they probably were. Thats a vital thing.

I love Marv for his big derby performances and his spirit and attitude but he was never really THAT good. Letting him go was spot on.

I don’t think he was a massive loss either, but the fact that he always gave you a reliable performance in big games against strong opposition meant that he was useful to have around. He shouldn’t have been a starter as I agree that we play better when we don’t have a player of his or Gogic’s type playing every game. The amount of big performances he put in in big games can’t be argued though and it demonstrates the value of a player like Bartley or Gogic.

Of course we lost 2 far superior players, nobody is going to argue that but it doesn’t change the fact that he had a big role to play in the squad whilst he was here. Lewis, Gray, McGregor and Bartley are all struggling now not because of McGeouch leaving, it’s because they’re all about 34/35 now. I loved McGeouch at us but making him out to be a proper top midfielder simply isn’t accurate, it’s why he’s not made any impact at Sunderland or Aberdeen. And I don’t want that to look like a criticism of him because he was great for us. Which I suspect was mainly because he played alongside John McGinn who as we can all see now, must be like playing alongside 2 extra midfielders with the energy he plays with

**MWHIBBIES** · 23-11-2020 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by HibsGW

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I don’t think he was a massive loss either, but the fact that he always gave you a reliable performance in big games against strong opposition meant that he was useful to have around. He shouldn’t have been a starter as I agree that we play better when we don’t have a player of his or Gogic’s type playing every game. The amount of big performances he put in in big games can’t be argued though and it demonstrates the value of a player like Bartley or Gogic.

Of course we lost 2 far superior players, nobody is going to argue that but it doesn’t change the fact that he had a big role to play in the squad whilst he was here. Lewis, Gray, McGregor and Bartley are all struggling now not because of McGeouch leaving, it’s because they’re all about 34/35 now. I loved McGeouch at us but making him out to be a proper top midfielder simply isn’t accurate, it’s why he’s not made any impact at Sunderland or Aberdeen. And I don’t want that to look like a criticism of him because he was great for us. Which I suspect was mainly because he played alongside John McGinn who as we can all see now, must be like playing alongside 2 extra midfielders with the energy he plays with

At Hibs, McGeouch was a top midfielder, simple as. His impact at other clubs doesn't change that at all. Some of our best ever players have failed at other clubs.

David Gray is 32, Lewis is 32. Not really ages that players are finished these days. Ibra is smashing them in at 39.

Marv had some good performances in big games, mainly derbies. He started 2 wins against Rangers and none against Celtic. Overall he was a good player for us. Not one we should really be upset about letting go, though.

***hibee-boys*** · 23-11-2020 10:41 AM

Gogic was brought here to do a specific job and, in the vast majority of games, he’s been doing exactly that. His fitness levels and distribution is a clear upgrade on Marv, and I loved the big guy. The issue is that we need more from the other 1 or 2 CM playing alongside him. I suspect that’s is why we’ve brought in Magennis to offer us more drive, penetration from CM.

**AugustaHibs** · 19-12-2020 03:54 PM

No idea what this guy is good at. Lucky if he made one pass when he came on and we lost control of the midfield as soon as he came on

***Vault Boy*** · 19-12-2020 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by DiscoDoidge

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No idea what this guy is good at. Lucky if he made one pass when he came on and we lost control of the midfield as soon as he came on

Apart from two very good passes, one to release Boyle and one up to Doidge.

Thought he was useful when he came on and better than a tired Hallberg. If you're not sure what he's good at, I'd suggest watching some more of him.

**BoyledEgg** · 19-12-2020 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Vault Boy

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Apart from two very good passes, one to release Boyle and one up to Doidge.

Thought he was useful when he came on and better than a tired Hallberg. If you're not sure what he's good at, I'd suggest watching some more of him.

He’s the worst player at Hibs. It’s no coincidence that we were woeful when he came on. Gave away 2 free kicks as soon as he came on, the ball is like a hot potato when it’s near him, launching it aimlessly up the park instead of taking a touch and making a simple pass.

**AugustaHibs** · 19-12-2020 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by tillguy

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He’s the worst player at Hibs. It’s no coincidence that we were woeful when he came on. Gave away 2 free kicks as soon as he came on, the ball is like a hot potato when it’s near him, launching it aimlessly up the park instead of taking a touch and making a simple pass.

Agreed, never a footballer.

***Vault Boy*** · 19-12-2020 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by tillguy

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He’s the worst player at Hibs. It’s no coincidence that we were woeful when he came on. Gave away 2 free kicks as soon as he came on, the ball is like a hot potato when it’s near him, launching it aimlessly up the park instead of taking a touch and making a simple pass.

No he isn't. Made a huge difference to us at the start of the season particularly.

Again, played two very good passes to set free Boyle and Doidge. United were already getting back into the game when he came on. Goal we conceded was nothing to do with him.

***greenlex*** · 19-12-2020 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vault Boy

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Apart from two very good passes, one to release Boyle and one up to Doidge.

Thought he was useful when he came on and better than a tired Hallberg. If you're not sure what he's good at, I'd suggest watching some more of him.

This. Some folk are ****ing mental.

**supermcginn** · 19-12-2020 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by DiscoDoidge

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No idea what this guy is good at. Lucky if he made one pass when he came on and we lost control of the midfield as soon as he came on

He's not brilliant but he's better than hallberg.

**truehibernian** · 19-12-2020 04:06 PM

Lewis Stevenson could have prevented it - didn't - nowt to do with Gogic today. Hibs strikers needs a good, long hard look at themselves today for me. Game should have been out of sight, as it was, we went typical Hibs in the mindset and let them back in. Team still incredibly soft and needs addressed. No leaders.

***PH91*** · 19-12-2020 04:12 PM

The best way to see a game out is to keep the ball. We are far worse at that with gogic on the pitch than not.

**Greenbeard** · 19-12-2020 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by PH91

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The best way to see a game out is to keep the ball. We are far worse at that with gogic on the pitch than not.

This 100%. We just hoofed it back to them last 10mins. No control. Gogic the worst offender.

**Magpie** · 19-12-2020 09:08 PM

I’d be interested to see his pass completion rate, can’t be great.

***Callum_62*** · 19-12-2020 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by DiscoDoidge

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Agreed, never a footballer.

Lol.

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***J-C*** · 19-12-2020 09:35 PM

He stood out in a poor Hamilton team, he looked exactly what we needed when we signed him but the more I see him the more I'm coming to the conclusion he's not that great and not a patch on big Marv, he'll do a job in certain games but it's looking more likely with the midfielders we had out today, he'll play less and less.

**~~Iggy Pope~~** · 19-12-2020 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Magpie

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I’d be interested to see his pass completion rate, can’t be great.

How did you find all those stats on Arteta but you can’t dig this really crucial one out? Poor statting really, you’ll lose cred.

Personally, I can’t see his pass rate being too bad in the 20 mins he was on. Passes on a par with the rest of the midfield (I think) in that period, and yes, probably more tackles. Certainly from what I watched.

**hibbysam** · 19-12-2020 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by J-C

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He stood out in a poor Hamilton team, he looked exactly what we needed when we signed him but the more I see him the more I'm coming to the conclusion he's not that great and not a patch on big Marv, he'll do a job in certain games but it's looking more likely with the midfielders we had out today, he'll play less and less.

Surprised we don’t try and utilise him at centre half in games like today. For the last ten minutes, go 5-4-1 and just accept that we couldn’t get the second goal and shut up shop. Bring McGinn on in the middle and Gogic to centre half and we’d be far more compact. Not pretty but would hopefully avoid wasting 80 minutes of outstanding play by chucking it away.