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Thread: Joe Newell

  1. #121
    I don't really like 4-4-2 in modern football. I'm not sure theres a lot of midfielders, especially at our level, that can go box to box and do the jobs you need from a 2. It's even harder to get 2 of them at once.

    Gogic is a CDM, he sits and protects behind 2 people and lets them go play, Newell is a facilitator or even as far as a number 10. He moves the ball around and he has lovely feet to keep the game calm or get us forward when options present themselves. Playing them both as a 2 is just lunacy, especially against an Aberdeen team that for about 5+ years has always had a hard working industrious midfield that you need to be on top of your game to get the better of.

    As far as the opinions on Gogic and Newell go both have improved us on players we've had in recent years, but only as part of a specific package can we get the results from that. Whether thats 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 etc then so be it. 4-4-2, and this weird lopsided system we sometimes play to shoe horn Boyle with the two strikers, hasn't worked this season at all and Jack Ross needs to wake up and see that or I fear a lot of the hard and good work from the first round of fixtures could be completely undone.


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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by The 90+2 View Post
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    Doesn’t every teams fans do similar?

    Look at the hearts fans thinking all they needed was that German piss heid to come in and take over and they had a top 4 team and squad. They ended up even ****ter and got relegated.
    Yer probs right but that doesn't make it any easier to accept.

  4. #123
    Coaching Staff ahibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centre Hawf View Post
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    I don't really like 4-4-2 in modern football. I'm not sure theres a lot of midfielders, especially at our level, that can go box to box and do the jobs you need from a 2. It's even harder to get 2 of them at once.

    Gogic is a CDM, he sits and protects behind 2 people and lets them go play, Newell is a facilitator or even as far as a number 10. He moves the ball around and he has lovely feet to keep the game calm or get us forward when options present themselves. Playing them both as a 2 is just lunacy, especially against an Aberdeen team that for about 5+ years has always had a hard working industrious midfield that you need to be on top of your game to get the better of.

    As far as the opinions on Gogic and Newell go both have improved us on players we've had in recent years, but only as part of a specific package can we get the results from that. Whether thats 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 etc then so be it. 4-4-2, and this weird lopsided system we sometimes play to shoe horn Boyle with the two strikers, hasn't worked this season at all and Jack Ross needs to wake up and see that or I fear a lot of the hard and good work from the first round of fixtures could be completely undone.
    I dont read much into 352 451 and so on. In any game a team has to adapt according to swings in any game. We see that with Doidge or Nisbet dropping into mid esp Nisbet but lets not forget that at ER Doidge chased and beat McRorie in a race to our by line. Not just a box to box player but a by line to by line player.
    Last edited by ahibby; 08-11-2020 at 05:32 PM.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
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    I dont read much into 352 451 and so on. In any game a team has to adapt according to swings in any game. We see that with Doidge or Nisbet dropping into mid esp Nisbet but lets not forget that at ER Doidge chased and beat McRorie in a race to our by line. Not just a box to box player but a by line to by line player.
    Whether you read much into it or not is up to you, the fact we play 2 against a strong, mobile 3 is a massive reason to how we struggle. Especially when our two strikers are told to play high and stay up top. We could easily have matched Aberdeen up on Friday, 3 at the back, Boyle at right wing back and Murphy going more central.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
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    I dont read much into 352 451 and so on. In any game a team has to adapt according to swings in any game. We see that with Doidge or Nisbet dropping into mid esp Nisbet but lets not forget that at ER Doidge chased and beat McRorie in a race to our by line. Not just a box to box player but a by line to by line player.
    You're right that a team has to adapt to swings in any game but you also have to pick the best players in the best system to make that happen. We aren't at the moment. Doidge chasing McRorie to our byline doesn't really help prove an argument either way?

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centre Hawf View Post
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    You're right that a team has to adapt to swings in any game but you also have to pick the best players in the best system to make that happen. We aren't at the moment. Doidge chasing McRorie to our byline doesn't really help prove an argument either way?
    My point is some players not only play box to box but can play byline to byline. To answer an another quwry. When u find youselve outnumbered 3 to 2 in mid u dont get ur goalie to drop the ball on the half way line u play longer and if their backs get it then its not just your defence they have to get thru but ur whole team r facing them.However I advocate a midfield of Magennis Newell and Gogic. Starting from there our width can come from behind them beside them or in front of them depending on what the game calls for at any given time. So I like a strong back 3 a strong mid 3 and the rest should or can be flexible depending on how the opposition play n change.
    Last edited by ahibby; 08-11-2020 at 06:47 PM.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
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    My point is some players not only play box to box but can play byline to byline. To answer an another quwry. When u find youselve outnumbered 3 to 2 in mid u dont get ur goalie to drop the ball on the half way line u play longer and if their backs get it then its not just your defence they have to get thru but ur whole team r facing them.However I advocate a midfield of Magennis Newell and Gogic. Starting from there our width can come from behind them beside them or in front of them depending on what the game calls for at any given time. So I like a strong back 3 a strong mid 3 and the rest should or can be flexible depending on how the opposition play n change.
    Absolutely agree with this.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
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    I honestly have no idea what you mean by this.
    Appreciate your honesty.

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member FitbaFolkKen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
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    My point is some players not only play box to box but can play byline to byline. To answer an another quwry. When u find youselve outnumbered 3 to 2 in mid u dont get ur goalie to drop the ball on the half way line u play longer and if their backs get it then its not just your defence they have to get thru but ur whole team r facing them.However I advocate a midfield of Magennis Newell and Gogic. Starting from there our width can come from behind them beside them or in front of them depending on what the game calls for at any given time. So I like a strong back 3 a strong mid 3 and the rest should or can be flexible depending on how the opposition play n change.
    There was an interview with Jack Ross where he described his tactical approach. Giving up the middle of the park is an expected outcome which should allow us to overload in wider areas when we counter attack.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarence View Post
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    Appreciate your honesty.

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitbaFolkKen View Post
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    There was an interview with Jack Ross where he described his tactical approach. Giving up the middle of the park is an expected outcome which should allow us to overload in wider areas when we counter attack.


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    The middle of the park is the most important area of the pitch IMO. I’d have big reservations if that’s how Ross sees things and is his long term plan.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    The middle of the park is the most important area of the pitch IMO. I’d have big reservations if that’s how Ross sees things and is his long term plan.
    I can't find the interview where he said it but it is definitely a conscious decision to focus on other areas of the pitch. I'll keep having a look.

  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by FitbaFolkKen View Post
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    I can't find the interview where he said it but it is definitely a conscious decision to focus on other areas of the pitch. I'll keep having a look.
    Did he not say something along the lines of 'by playing 2 up front all the time he has to give up something in midfield' before the hearts game.
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  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by offshorehibby View Post
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    Did he not say something along the lines of 'by playing 2 up front all the time he has to give up something in midfield' before the hearts game.
    He’s mentioned it a few times in interviews.

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  16. #135
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    I’ve very rarely seen Hibs play well with one up front, that’s over several managers. Not saying there’s anything wrong with it - many clubs play it well - I just don’t think it suits us.

    So if we have to play 2 up front, what do we sacrifice, and from where?

    I’ve probably seen Hibs at their most comfortable in a 352 over the years, it seems to be what ticks most boxes. It poses a question as to how we accommodate Boyle and Murphy but I still think it’s the strongest we have. You also then have the 3 CB’s plus Gogic conundrum.

    442 might be fine against weaker teams but it was never going to work against Aberdeen at Pittodrie, although who knows what might have happened if we hadn’t effectively chucked the game within 13 minutes.

  17. #136
    There is no reason for us to always play 2 up top. We could easily change to 4231. Nisbet can play very well on the left of the 3 behind. Plenty options for Jack - hopefully we will try something out against Dundee...... Mind you they have Charlie Adam so we wont need that much energy in the middle for that game.

    Gogic is at his best when he plays as a DM. In the flat 4 he isnt doing that as he has to press all over the middle of the park....on many occasions pushing right up to the opponents box, that leaves huge gaps behind. It works ok in a Diamond but not in a flat 4. Its Jack's insistence to place with wingers in the 442 that is causing us to be overrun in midfield at the moment.

  18. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    The middle of the park is the most important area of the pitch IMO. I’d have big reservations if that’s how Ross sees things and is his long term plan.
    Me too, especially now that we are leaking goals which means teams then sit in and there is little if any chance to break thereafter. Neither do I understand when Rocky receives a pass back he aims for the half way line, if JR concedes that midfield area, it just doesn't make sense to play that way, and it's counter to what he thinks he's trying to do. It would explain the pressure our backs are under during games these days, as I said we need a strong 3 in mid and a strong back 3. I don't think we have a strong enough back 3 yet and we could be doing with another CB, in my view. I presume a strong mid 3 of Magennis, Gogic and Newell when Magennis is fully fit.

  19. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahibby View Post
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    Me too, especially now that we are leaking goals which means teams then sit in and there is little if any chance to break thereafter. Neither do I understand when Rocky receives a pass back he aims for the half way line, if JR concedes that midfield area, it just doesn't make sense to play that way, and it's counter to what he thinks he's trying to do. It would explain the pressure our backs are under during games these days, as I said we need a strong 3 in mid and a strong back 3. I don't think we have a strong enough back 3 yet and we could be doing with another CB, in my view. I presume a strong mid 3 of Magennis, Gogic and Newell when Magennis is fully fit.
    "Now that we are leaking goals" - really?

  20. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    "Now that we are leaking goals" - really?
    We're leaking more than we were.

    The defence started the season brilliantly, the last few games haven't been quite as good.

    It may have a shade of hyperbole about it but it's not an entirely unreasonable comment.

    Friday was that horrible combination of giving away poor goals, creating nothing and taking no chances. Nothing really worked, no part of the team looked good. It all needs to be a lot better if we're to pick up anything in Aberdeen.

  21. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    We're leaking more than we were.

    The defence started the season brilliantly, the last few games haven't been quite as good.

    It may have a shade of hyperbole about it but it's not an entirely unreasonable comment.

    Friday was that horrible combination of giving away poor goals, creating nothing and taking no chances. Nothing really worked, no part of the team looked good. It all needs to be a lot better if we're to pick up anything in Aberdeen.
    We aren't really though. What we are doing is putting ourselves under a lot more pressure than we were previously.

    One goal v Hearts. and 2 daft errors in the Aberdeen game that were nothing to do with formation. I do agree though that we are not defending as a team as well as we were earlier. If it continues someone is going to pump us soon.

  22. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    I’ve very rarely seen Hibs play well with one up front, that’s over several managers. Not saying there’s anything wrong with it - many clubs play it well - I just don’t think it suits us.

    So if we have to play 2 up front, what do we sacrifice, and from where?

    I’ve probably seen Hibs at their most comfortable in a 352 over the years, it seems to be what ticks most boxes. It poses a question as to how we accommodate Boyle and Murphy but I still think it’s the strongest we have. You also then have the 3 CB’s plus Gogic conundrum.

    442 might be fine against weaker teams but it was never going to work against Aberdeen at Pittodrie, although who knows what might have happened if we hadn’t effectively chucked the game within 13 minutes.
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    I agree but I’m glad that sprung to mind.

  23. #142
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    Agree. 4-4-2 is actually my favourite formation but you need the right players - certainly if you are up against 5 in the midfield. I loved Man United with Giggs and Kancheskis on the wings but in order to accommodate them Man Utd had Keane and Ince in their Prime patrolling the middle of the park - not two players with limited roles like Gogic and Newell.

    Our wingers are also prone to losing the ball a lot meaning we need a strong pressing game to get it back- not exactly what Gogic and Newell are cut out for.

    With the present squad, to challenge in the big games, it probably needs to be 4-5-1 or 3-5-2. Given Boyle, is decent as a RWB, 3-5-2 prob suits usbest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightside View Post
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    We aren't really though. What we are doing is putting ourselves under a lot more pressure than we were previously.

    One goal v Hearts. and 2 daft errors in the Aberdeen game that were nothing to do with formation. I do agree though that we are not defending as a team as well as we were earlier. If it continues someone is going to pump us soon.
    There was the two against Hamilton and the three against Celtic also. Both goals and their other penalty could have been avoided and the defending was shocking against Celtic. We are more defensively solid than previous years though.

  25. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    "Now that we are leaking goals" - really?
    Yep four in the last two matches si compared to early un the season we now have a leak.

  26. #145
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    I think last night was another example of the enigma that is Newell. He wasn’t bad, but certainly wasn’t good. Not being bad isn’t good enough if we want to ever finish 3rd and on a consistent basis. We need him to take games like last night by the scruff of the neck not just drift through the game along with his fellow midfielders.

    I think he had a real purple patch earlier in the season but has also had too many poorer games like last night. Not a priority to replace but not a guy to build a midfield round either IMO. He strikes me as the kind of excellent squad player that we eventually need to get to, to match Aberdeen’s strength in depth. He (and Gogic) have improved us, but he won’t dictate a game the way McGeough could nor drive us on and take a game by scruff of the neck like McGinn. A nice to have player but we need more IMO.

  27. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Modfather View Post
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    I think last night was another example of the enigma that is Newell. He wasn’t bad, but certainly wasn’t good. Not being bad isn’t good enough if we want to ever finish 3rd and on a consistent basis. We need him to take games like last night by the scruff of the neck not just drift through the game along with his fellow midfielders.

    I think he had a real purple patch earlier in the season but has also had too many poorer games like last night. Not a priority to replace but not a guy to build a midfield round either IMO. He strikes me as the kind of excellent squad player that we eventually need to get to, to match Aberdeen’s strength in depth. He (and Gogic) have improved us, but he won’t dictate a game the way McGeough could nor drive us on and take a game by scruff of the neck like McGinn. A nice to have player but we need more IMO.


    A not bad player. That’s about it. If we want to be consistently top 4 then we need better.

  28. #147
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    There were too many times last night where the man on the ball had too few options - this affected Newell more than anyone.

    He coped better than others by at least managing to retain possession under pressure but because his impact was poor going forward his performance overall was only ok.

    His shot from Mackie’s ball in was weak and poor, and if it hadn’t been it would have been a very different game.

    I like him and he’s not where I would start reshaping the side, but the blend in the middle is all wrong and at the moment he’s part of that.

  29. #148
    @hibs.net private member 500miles's Avatar
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    Newell needs to find an extra gear. His close control is excellent, and his ability to come away from a ruck of defenders by switching the ball between his feet is simple but so difficult for defenders to deal with.

    If he can add an athletic element to his game, he'll be challenging Nisbet for our best player.

  30. #149
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    At times last night it was a bit like watching Liam Craig when he played for us. Not taking responsibility, safe option every time. He only comes to life when we're holding a lead and then he shows he's got great ability. Just needs to get involved more.

  31. #150
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiber-nation View Post
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    At times last night it was a bit like watching Liam Craig when he played for us. Not taking responsibility, safe option every time. He only comes to life when we're holding a lead and then he shows he's got great ability. Just needs to get involved more.
    I was happy with him taking the safe option when there was rarely any other option for him when in his position, losing it would have piled pressure onto us via the counter attack.

    Taking Gogic off and putting Doidge up front should have given us more options going forward but it didn't really work out that way all that often.

    Newell looked stuck on the ball a lot, that was mainly down to St Johnstone being strong and disciplined defensively and us lacking the players to adequately move them out of position and create space.

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