I don't really like 4-4-2 in modern football. I'm not sure theres a lot of midfielders, especially at our level, that can go box to box and do the jobs you need from a 2. It's even harder to get 2 of them at once.
Gogic is a CDM, he sits and protects behind 2 people and lets them go play, Newell is a facilitator or even as far as a number 10. He moves the ball around and he has lovely feet to keep the game calm or get us forward when options present themselves. Playing them both as a 2 is just lunacy, especially against an Aberdeen team that for about 5+ years has always had a hard working industrious midfield that you need to be on top of your game to get the better of.
As far as the opinions on Gogic and Newell go both have improved us on players we've had in recent years, but only as part of a specific package can we get the results from that. Whether thats 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 etc then so be it. 4-4-2, and this weird lopsided system we sometimes play to shoe horn Boyle with the two strikers, hasn't worked this season at all and Jack Ross needs to wake up and see that or I fear a lot of the hard and good work from the first round of fixtures could be completely undone.
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Thread: Joe Newell
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08-11-2020 04:13 PM #121
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08-11-2020 05:24 PM #122
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08-11-2020 05:29 PM #123This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-11-2020 05:35 PM #124This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-11-2020 06:14 PM #125
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08-11-2020 06:26 PM #126This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-11-2020 09:58 PM #127
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08-11-2020 10:01 PM #128This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-11-2020 10:11 PM #129This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-11-2020 10:36 PM #130
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08-11-2020 10:43 PM #131This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-11-2020 12:59 AM #132This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-11-2020 07:30 AM #133This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteTOP CASH BACK
The easy way to make money
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09-11-2020 08:00 AM #134This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
United we stand here....
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09-11-2020 08:14 AM #135
I’ve very rarely seen Hibs play well with one up front, that’s over several managers. Not saying there’s anything wrong with it - many clubs play it well - I just don’t think it suits us.
So if we have to play 2 up front, what do we sacrifice, and from where?
I’ve probably seen Hibs at their most comfortable in a 352 over the years, it seems to be what ticks most boxes. It poses a question as to how we accommodate Boyle and Murphy but I still think it’s the strongest we have. You also then have the 3 CB’s plus Gogic conundrum.
442 might be fine against weaker teams but it was never going to work against Aberdeen at Pittodrie, although who knows what might have happened if we hadn’t effectively chucked the game within 13 minutes.
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09-11-2020 08:48 AM #136
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There is no reason for us to always play 2 up top. We could easily change to 4231. Nisbet can play very well on the left of the 3 behind. Plenty options for Jack - hopefully we will try something out against Dundee...... Mind you they have Charlie Adam so we wont need that much energy in the middle for that game.
Gogic is at his best when he plays as a DM. In the flat 4 he isnt doing that as he has to press all over the middle of the park....on many occasions pushing right up to the opponents box, that leaves huge gaps behind. It works ok in a Diamond but not in a flat 4. Its Jack's insistence to place with wingers in the 442 that is causing us to be overrun in midfield at the moment.
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09-11-2020 09:23 AM #137This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-11-2020 09:34 AM #138This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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09-11-2020 09:43 AM #139This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The defence started the season brilliantly, the last few games haven't been quite as good.
It may have a shade of hyperbole about it but it's not an entirely unreasonable comment.
Friday was that horrible combination of giving away poor goals, creating nothing and taking no chances. Nothing really worked, no part of the team looked good. It all needs to be a lot better if we're to pick up anything in Aberdeen.
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09-11-2020 10:04 AM #140
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One goal v Hearts. and 2 daft errors in the Aberdeen game that were nothing to do with formation. I do agree though that we are not defending as a team as well as we were earlier. If it continues someone is going to pump us soon.
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09-11-2020 12:39 PM #141
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I agree but I’m glad that sprung to mind.
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09-11-2020 01:36 PM #142
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Agree. 4-4-2 is actually my favourite formation but you need the right players - certainly if you are up against 5 in the midfield. I loved Man United with Giggs and Kancheskis on the wings but in order to accommodate them Man Utd had Keane and Ince in their Prime patrolling the middle of the park - not two players with limited roles like Gogic and Newell.
Our wingers are also prone to losing the ball a lot meaning we need a strong pressing game to get it back- not exactly what Gogic and Newell are cut out for.
With the present squad, to challenge in the big games, it probably needs to be 4-5-1 or 3-5-2. Given Boyle, is decent as a RWB, 3-5-2 prob suits usbest.
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09-11-2020 01:44 PM #143
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09-11-2020 02:01 PM #144This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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25-11-2020 09:47 AM #145
I think last night was another example of the enigma that is Newell. He wasn’t bad, but certainly wasn’t good. Not being bad isn’t good enough if we want to ever finish 3rd and on a consistent basis. We need him to take games like last night by the scruff of the neck not just drift through the game along with his fellow midfielders.
I think he had a real purple patch earlier in the season but has also had too many poorer games like last night. Not a priority to replace but not a guy to build a midfield round either IMO. He strikes me as the kind of excellent squad player that we eventually need to get to, to match Aberdeen’s strength in depth. He (and Gogic) have improved us, but he won’t dictate a game the way McGeough could nor drive us on and take a game by scruff of the neck like McGinn. A nice to have player but we need more IMO.
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25-11-2020 09:48 AM #146This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
A not bad player. That’s about it. If we want to be consistently top 4 then we need better.
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25-11-2020 10:26 AM #147
There were too many times last night where the man on the ball had too few options - this affected Newell more than anyone.
He coped better than others by at least managing to retain possession under pressure but because his impact was poor going forward his performance overall was only ok.
His shot from Mackie’s ball in was weak and poor, and if it hadn’t been it would have been a very different game.
I like him and he’s not where I would start reshaping the side, but the blend in the middle is all wrong and at the moment he’s part of that.
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25-11-2020 11:56 AM #148
Newell needs to find an extra gear. His close control is excellent, and his ability to come away from a ruck of defenders by switching the ball between his feet is simple but so difficult for defenders to deal with.
If he can add an athletic element to his game, he'll be challenging Nisbet for our best player.
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25-11-2020 12:45 PM #149
At times last night it was a bit like watching Liam Craig when he played for us. Not taking responsibility, safe option every time. He only comes to life when we're holding a lead and then he shows he's got great ability. Just needs to get involved more.
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25-11-2020 12:50 PM #150This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Taking Gogic off and putting Doidge up front should have given us more options going forward but it didn't really work out that way all that often.
Newell looked stuck on the ball a lot, that was mainly down to St Johnstone being strong and disciplined defensively and us lacking the players to adequately move them out of position and create space.
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