Greatest player of all time?

[Spike Mandela]

This BBC article is asking the question is Pele the best player of all time? It compares his achievements against modern day heroes like Messi and Ronaldo and many of the other greats including my favourite Cruyff. Reading this though I am struck by the stats of Puskas, oh my god what a player he must have been.

Who do you think is greatest of all time?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54543144

[Tambo]

Where is George Best?

[Spike Mandela]

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Where is George Best?

In the pub

[MWHIBBIES]

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Where is George Best?

A tier below Messi, Ronaldo, Pele, Maradona etc.

[wookie70]

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Where is George Best?

George Best would be at the top of my list but that my be my green eye bias. For him not to be in the top 10 is ridiculous. He had it all and managed to have the ball on a string despite playing on ploughed fields with defenders sharpened studs snapping at him on every run. He also headed the ball and was a very good tackler. Add to that he was a superstar out with football far more than Messi or Ronaldo are now. Pele or Maradona would be the only two that would beat Best in my eyes.

[jgl07]

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Where is George Best?

Pissed and slumped at the back of the bar.

[MWHIBBIES]

Messi

[Cat Stanton]

Your view is likely to be influenced by your age. I suspect people who say Messi is the best may be slightly younger than those say Maradona - who in turn may be slightly younger than those who say Pelé. Because it's about who you've been most exposed to (er, so to speak) when growing up.

There's a frustrating lack of coverage of when Pelé was at his peak (so I find it hard to judge) whereas in my late teens, I watched mesmerised as Maradona effectively won a World Cup single-handedly. He did something similar with Napoli - taking a thoroughly mediocre team to league championships and European trophies. Messi's obviously an amazing player, but he's also been in teams surrounded by other great players, and having seen both him and Maradona at their peak, I would go for Maradona. If you're younger and haven't seen so much of Maradona, you'd probably go for Messi.

Personally, I wouldn't put Cristiano Ronaldo in the same bracket. But I'm also a bit blinkered as I've always found him such an arrogant arse - but I accept that's quite a different issue and shouldn't cloud my judgement...

(cue new thread: who was the greatest arrogant arse of all time..?)

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Your view is likely to be influenced by your age. I suspect people who say Messi is the best may be slightly younger than those say Maradona - who in turn may be slightly younger than those who say Pelé. Because it's about who you've been most exposed to (er, so to speak) when growing up.

There's a frustrating lack of coverage of when Pelé was at his peak (so I find it hard to judge) whereas in my late teens, I watched mesmerised as Maradona effectively won a World Cup single-handedly. He did something similar with Napoli - taking a thoroughly mediocre team to league championships and European trophies. Messi's obviously an amazing player, but he's also been in teams surrounded by other great players, and having seen both him and Maradona at their peak, I would go for Maradona. If you're younger and haven't seen so much of Maradona, you'd probably go for Messi.

Personally, I wouldn't put Cristiano Ronaldo in the same bracket. But I'm also a bit blinkered as I've always found him such an arrogant arse - but I accept that's quite a different issue and shouldn't cloud my judgement...

(cue new thread: who was the greatest arrogant arse of all time..?)

Clough.

[Keith_M]

This is a question that it's genuinely impossible to answer.

• Nobody here could possibly have watched every player that ever played football, so how can you really say who's the best 'of all time'?
• Football has changed drastically over the decades, especially when it come to things like fitness, so it's impossible to give a fair judgment between the extremely fit players of now compared to the ones that relied more on their skill from decades ago.
• People tend to choose a player from the era that they enjoyed the most.

But feel free to crack on about Messi and one of the Ronaldos ;-)

[Crunchie]

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This is a question that it's genuinely impossible to answer.

• Nobody here could possibly have watched every player that ever played football, so how can you really say who's the best 'of all time'?
• Football has changed drastically over the decades, especially when it come to things like fitness, so it's impossible to give a fair judgment between the extremely fit players of now compared to the ones that relied more on their skill from decades ago.
• People tend to choose a player from the era that they enjoyed the most.

But feel free to crack on about Messi and one of the Ronaldos ;-)

I totally agree with you, it's like any sport asking who was the greatest of all time, it's impossible for anyone to give a definitive answer.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The greatest ever debates are pointless and tiresome. When you get to that class of player where the word genius can literally be applied then how can you separate them? Do you go for World Cup wins? Not really fair when George Best played for Northern Ireland and Messi has done literally everything but win one. Do you go for pure statistics like goals and assists? Again, how can you compare La Liga in the 2010s with the English first division in the 1960s? It’s a completely different game now.

if you put Maradona in Messi’s Barcelona team could he have done the same things? Could Messi have won the 86 World Cup for Argentina? Could George Best have taken Napoli to the heights they reached in the late 80s? Could pele have got Northern Ireland to a World Cup?

no one will ever know.

[Keith_M]

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The greatest ever debates are pointless and tiresome. When you get to that class of player where the word genius can literally be applied then how can you separate them? Do you go for World Cup wins? Not really fair when George Best played for Northern Ireland and Messi has done literally everything but win one. Do you go for pure statistics like goals and assists? Again, how can you compare La Liga in the 2010s with the English first division in the 1960s? It’s a completely different game now.

if you put Maradona in Messi’s Barcelona team could he have done the same things? Could Messi have won the 86 World Cup for Argentina? Could George Best have taken Napoli to the heights they reached in the late 80s? Could pele have got Northern Ireland to a World Cup?

no one will ever know.

My grandad used to insist that Barney Battles (played for Boston then Hearts) was the best player ever.

Seeing as the guy retired in 1936.. and none of his games were ever televised... I'd love to see anybody successfully argue that he wasn't

[calumhibee1]

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The greatest ever debates are pointless and tiresome. When you get to that class of player where the word genius can literally be applied then how can you separate them? Do you go for World Cup wins? Not really fair when George Best played for Northern Ireland and Messi has done literally everything but win one. Do you go for pure statistics like goals and assists? Again, how can you compare La Liga in the 2010s with the English first division in the 1960s? It’s a completely different game now.

if you put Maradona in Messi’s Barcelona team could he have done the same things? Could Messi have won the 86 World Cup for Argentina? Could George Best have taken Napoli to the heights they reached in the late 80s? Could pele have got Northern Ireland to a World Cup?

no one will ever know.

I think if we’re talking about popping someone like Messi into the 86 World Cup then yes, he’d absolutely have won it. He’d have been playing against guys who were a hell of a lot slower, less powerful and less fit than he does now for starters. Likewise if you stuck an ‘as was’ Pele into football now he’d be poor.

These debates quite often turn into people asking ‘but if pele had all the modern advantages etc’ which is a fair point, but at the end of the day, he didn’t and as such he got to whatever level of ability he got to. Messi and Ronaldo have had them and have got to the level they’ve got to with the help of them. If it’s just purely basing who’s best on the level they got to, rather than the level they could have got to if they had access to different training methods etc then I think it would be very difficult to put forward an arguement for anyone but Messi and Ronaldo - they’re physically miles ahead of any of the older names mentioned.

Controversially, for the same reason, I’d be willing to say that the Hibs team now would probably take not a kick in the arse off double figures off the Famous Five

[calumhibee1]

Messi with Cristiano Ronaldo a close-ish second.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Messi with Cristiano Ronaldo a close-ish second.

This is where I'm at. When it comes to those 2 it's very close, but I think both are a good bit ahead of 3rd, all things considered.

[Bishop Hibee]

Pelé. Even his near misses are legendary.

[Sudds_1]

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Pelé. Even his near misses are legendary.

Always renember when he dummied the goalie...i still watch replays hoping it goes in!

[Since452]

Cristiano Ronaldo

[tonyrougier123]

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Cristiano Ronaldo

Without a doubt ☝🏻.

[Since452]

If it wasn't for injuries then Brazilian Ronaldo would have been very close to the best ever

[MWHIBBIES]

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If it wasn't for injuries then Brazilian Ronaldo would have been very close to the best ever

Agree with this. His record at a young age is unreal.

[BILLYHIBS]

Edson Arantes do Nascimento

[makaveli1875]

since everyones naming forwards il buck the trend with Paolo Maldini

[Juice-Terry]

Maradona - easily.

[ajf]

[QUOTE=maradona ! In an era where there were hatchet men round every corner he produced the goods

[Jpdhfc]

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since everyones naming forwards il buck the trend with Paolo Maldini

Him and Franco Baresi unbelievable

[StevieT]

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Edson Arantes do Nascimento

Agree wholeheartedly Billy. My all time football hero. Let’s not forget that back then players never received the protection they get these days and a full on assault was only a free kick and not even a caution. Look at the treatment he received in his early World Cups compared to nowadays. Some of the current crop are excellent but they are well protected.

[O'Rourke3]

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Agree wholeheartedly Billy. My all time football hero. Let’s not forget that back then players never received the protection they get these days and a full on assault was only a free kick and not even a caution. Look at the treatment he received in his early World Cups compared to nowadays. Some of the current crop are excellent but they are well protected.

Pele by a mile. Check the treatment he got from Portugal in England in 66. Up there with the worst The Argentinians ever dished out.

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[Mick O'Rourke]

PELE
PUSKAS




At Hibernian?
'
Not having seen Gordon Smith in his prime .......

Willie Hamilton

Puskas is supposed to have said (after that great night at ER)that Willie would not have looked out of place in the Real Madrid side