European Premier League.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Knock yourself out. The vast majority of fans will follow the club into whatever set up they choose.


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No, they won't. No one is going to Norway on a Wednesday night. Away days are a huge huge part of supporting a club. This would kill it dead. That and ultimately passionless games, no away fans at ER, all games being on TV. Club might be rich but it would be dead on the surface. No thanks.

[Ozyhibby]

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im not certain supporters (of all clubs involved) will be as compliant or easily led as you think.

Football fans will eat whatever **** sandwich they are served. Always have done.
Champions league becomes more of a closed shop every year but fans just shrug their shoulders. Rangers cheat the whole Scottish game for 8 years and nobody says boo.
The minute RG says this is good for Hibs, 90% of fans will start agreeing with him.


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[Ozyhibby]

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What makes you so certain this will happen?

There is serious money involved.


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[Duke of Currie]

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Knock yourself out. The vast majority of fans will follow the club into whatever set up they choose.


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Thing is a lot of current football fans wil think the same, just in the same way 25 years ago the Premiership was exciting to watch on Sky TV. These decisions about setting up new leagues are made for future generations to come , and whilst you might not be interested , the legions of young supporters who would rather watch English football rather than Scottish football will just as quickly be replaced by new fans wanting to watch a European league.
Many overseas fans support a brand, not a team , so if they move from a domestic league to a pan european league , they wont care , as long as they can watch their team on the tv and buy the merchandise, and that is where the money is and thats what will drive this or an Atlantic league or any other variation.
Are Hibs a strong enough brand ? No , so if these leagues take off, a decreasing number of fans will watch Hibs until they get bored at the standard and then Hibs and many other clubs will slowly disappear while the rich get richer

[Bishop Hibee]

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Thing is a lot of current football fans wil think the same, just in the same way 25 years ago the Premiership was exciting to watch on Sky TV. These decisions about setting up new leagues are made for future generations to come , and whilst you might not be interested , the legions of young supporters who would rather watch English football rather than Scottish football will just as quickly be replaced by new fans wanting to watch a European league.
Many overseas fans support a brand, not a team , so if they move from a domestic league to a pan european league , they wont care , as long as they can watch their team on the tv and buy the merchandise, and that is where the money is and thats what will drive this or an Atlantic league or any other variation.
Are Hibs a strong enough brand ? No , so if these leagues take off, a decreasing number of fans will watch Hibs until they get bored at the standard and then Hibs and many other clubs will slowly disappear while the rich get richer

Hibs will never disappear because of a Euro League. Our crowds have increased in spite of the EPL. People will always enjoy seeing games in the raw not the sterilised Sky TV tourist version.

[Ozyhibby]

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Hibs will never disappear because of a Euro League. Our crowds have increased in spite of the EPL. People will always enjoy seeing games in the raw not the sterilised Sky TV tourist version.

The quality of player we watch now has decreased since I started watching. It used to be that we could compete for players with championship level clubs in England. Lately we have been losing out to league 1 teams( their new salary cap may help).
People enjoy watching live football and Hibs have a value but we should aim to maximise it. Standing still will really mean moving backwards.
I think if we are not in there shaping our destiny then other clubs will choose it for us.


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[DH1875]

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This was compiled in 2018 when Hibs crowds were higher due to cup win bounce.

Atlantic league
2/ 18 team leagues

Ajax 49,403
Feyenoord 45,419
Celtic 44,849
New Rangers 45,415
PSV 32,465
FC Twente 28,518
Hammarby (Sweden) 25,507
Club Brugge (Belguim) 24,430
Herenveen 24,314
AIK (Sweden) 20,983
Anderlecht 20,675
Genk (Belguim) 20,590
Standard Liege (Belguim) 20,415
Groningen 20,193
NAC Breda 18,112
Rosenborg (Norway) 18,039
Hibs 18,000
Hearts 18,000
Malmo (Sweden) 17,332
Vitesse 17,212
Utrecht 16,646
AZ Alkmaar 15,512
Djurgardens IF (Sweden) 15,484
FC Copenhagen (Denmark) 15,448
Brondby (Denmark) 15,143
IFK Gothenborg (Sweden) 14,350
Aberdeen 13,094
PEC Zwolle 12,213
Willem II 12,099
ADO Den Haag 11,976
IFK Norkoping (Sweden) 10,296
Viking FK (Norway) 10,272
SK Brann (Norway) 10,124
KV Mechelan (Belguim)10,160
Valerenga IF (Norway) 10,099
KAA Gent (Belguim) 10,090

Tv market
Holland 17m
Belguim 11m
Sweden 10m
Denmark 5.6m
Scotland 5.5m
Norway 5.1m
Total 52mi


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Complied by who? HJK HELSINKI aren't on that list and they've been part of the plans/talk of an Atlantic league since the start. Also teams like Molde are missing out and there is way to many Dutch teams.

[Ozyhibby]

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Complied by who? HJK HELSINKI aren't on that list and they've been part of the plans/talk of an Atlantic league since the start. Also teams like Molde are missing out and there is way to many Dutch teams.

Both those teams average attendance is below 10k


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[Since90+2]

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No, they won't. No one is going to Norway on a Wednesday night. Away days are a huge huge part of supporting a club. This would kill it dead. That and ultimately passionless games, no away fans at ER, all games being on TV. Club might be rich but it would be dead on the surface. No thanks.

Away days are a huge part of supporting the club but for a small percentage of supporters.

Hibs average attendance is in the region of 16/17000 and our away attendance is around 10% of that. Meaning for around 90% of the support away days are either something that only happens once or twice a season or never at all.

[Ozyhibby]

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Away days are a huge part of supporting the club but for a small percentage of supporters.

Hibs average attendance is in the region of 16/17000 and our away attendance is around 10% of that. Meaning for around 90% of the support away days are either something that only happens once or twice a season or never at all.

Correct. Vast majority of fans would happily sacrifice away days to watch a better standard of football.


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[hibbysam]

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The quality of player we watch now has decreased since I started watching. It used to be that we could compete for players with championship level clubs in England. Lately we have been losing out to league 1 teams( their new salary cap may help).
People enjoy watching live football and Hibs have a value but we should aim to maximise it. Standing still will really mean moving backwards.
I think if we are not in there shaping our destiny then other clubs will choose it for us.


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A closed shop ‘Atlantic league’ does nothing for us. Might make us money, I disagree and don’t think it will, however it would be a pointless exercise lacking excitement and for what? Us to be richer than we are now, making folk money but ultimately costing the paying punter far more. No idea why anyone would want us to be franchised like the Americans just so we are richer than we are now. It wouldn’t bring us any new fans, and it would lose us thousands, and would kill the domestic game as it is now.

[Ozyhibby]

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A closed shop ‘Atlantic league’ does nothing for us. Might make us money, I disagree and don’t think it will, however it would be a pointless exercise lacking excitement and for what? Us to be richer than we are now, making folk money but ultimately costing the paying punter far more. No idea why anyone would want us to be franchised like the Americans just so we are richer than we are now. It wouldn’t bring us any new fans, and it would lose us thousands, and would kill the domestic game as it is now.

There are loads of assumptions in there that people could disagree with.


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[hibbysam]

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There are loads of assumptions in there that people could disagree with.


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Exactly like the stance you take. You assume hibs would jump at leaving Scotland, you assume fans would swallow it, you assume (as per previous post on this topic) that we would still compete in a Scottish cup, you assume we would even be welcome. It would be the end of Hibs as it is now, no doubt about that.

[DH1875]

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Both those teams average attendance is below 10k


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HJK have been involved in Atlantic league talks and would 100% be in. Like I said earlier, their trying to get their capacity extended to 25,000. They are the biggest team in Finland and I'm sure that Celtic, Ajax, Anderlecht, AIK would rather have them in the league and therefore opening up the Finnish TV market as opposed to us or Aberdeen. Their still gonna get the Scottish tv money either way
Molde are just an example of a descent well run successful club. Your looking at their crowd levels and just dismissing them there and then. Basically your doing to them what rangers and celtic have done to us for years.

[DH1875]

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Exactly like the stance you take. You assume hibs would jump at leaving Scotland, you assume fans would swallow it, you assume (as per previous post on this topic) that we would still compete in a Scottish cup, you assume we would even be welcome. It would be the end of Hibs as it is now, no doubt about that.

Were/have we ever been invited to take part in any of these talks? As far as im aware we haven't. Thats alright though because we are still going. Forget about clubs like HJK who have actually held talks with the other clubs involved. They don't mater cause we get bigger crowds than them.

[Ozyhibby]

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HJK have been involved in Atlantic league talks and would 100% be in. Like I said earlier, their trying to get their capacity extended to 25,000. They are the biggest team in Finland and I'm sure that Celtic, Ajax, Anderlecht, AIK would rather have them in the league and therefore opening up the Finnish TV market as opposed to us or Aberdeen. Their still gonna get the Scottish tv money either way
Molde are just an example of a descent well run successful club. Your looking at their crowd levels and just dismissing them there and then. Basically your doing to them what rangers and celtic have done to us for years.

It’s not me dismissing them. This will be about money. It will be about clubs with the biggest fan bases. HJK Helsinki average less than 5k per game. I just don’t think they would be involved.


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[Ozyhibby]

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Exactly like the stance you take. You assume hibs would jump at leaving Scotland, you assume fans would swallow it, you assume (as per previous post on this topic) that we would still compete in a Scottish cup, you assume we would even be welcome. It would be the end of Hibs as it is now, no doubt about that.

The end of Hibs? No doubt about it?


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[DH1875]

My understanding of it is that at the last round of talks there were 14 teams involved. Those teams were;
Rangers.
Celtic.
PSV.
Ajax.
Feyenoord.
Anderlecht.
Standard Liege.
Club Brugge.
FC Copenhagen.
Brondby.
Malmo.
AIK.
HJK.
Rosenborg.

Some big teams missing there and no sign of us or Aberdeen or Hearts yet alone all 3 of us.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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My understanding of it is that at the last round of talks there were 14 teams involved. Those teams were;
Rangers.
Celtic.
PSV.
Ajax.
Feyenoord.
Anderlecht.
Standard Liege.
Club Brugge.
FC Copenhagen.
Brondby.
Malmo.
AIK.
HJK.
Rosenborg.

Some big teams missing there and no sign of us or Aberdeen or Hearts yet alone all 3 of us.

hard to believe a massive club and brand like Ajax wouldn’t be in the European Premier league or whatever they want to call it. Even harder to believe Hibs would be included in a league with some of those big names.

[DH1875]

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It’s not me dismissing them. This will be about money. It will be about clubs with the biggest fan bases. HJK Helsinki average less than 5k per game. I just don’t think they would be involved.


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It is you dismissing them though. They have already been part of the talks for the Atlantic league. If the other clubs didn't want them, why have they ALREADY been invited to the table?Like I said earlier, have we ever been invited to the table? It's not just about home gates. By having them there you open up another whole TV market. People from all Finland would watch their games.

[Ozyhibby]

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My understanding of it is that at the last round of talks there were 14 teams involved. Those teams were;
Rangers.
Celtic.
PSV.
Ajax.
Feyenoord.
Anderlecht.
Standard Liege.
Club Brugge.
FC Copenhagen.
Brondby.
Malmo.
AIK.
HJK.
Rosenborg.

Some big teams missing there and no sign of us or Aberdeen or Hearts yet alone all 3 of us.

I’m not saying that we will def be involved, just that if it goes ahead and we are not then I think it will be very bad for Hibs.


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[Ozyhibby]

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It is you dismissing them though. They have already been part of the talks for the Atlantic league. If the other clubs didn't want them, why have they ALREADY been invited to the table?Like I said earlier, have we ever been invited to the table? It's not just about home gates. By having them there you open up another whole TV market. People from all Finland would watch their games.

And that is a very good point. If they show they can bring money to the table then they will get in.
I don’t know if any of this will happen. I think it’s more likely the Dutch and Belgians go and do their own thing.
I am certain that when moves start to happen that Celtic and Rangers will make a move. Aberdeen will quickly follow and that Hibs and Hearts will have a decision to make.


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[DH1875]

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hard to believe a massive club and brand like Ajax wouldn’t be in the European Premier league or whatever they want to call it. Even harder to believe Hibs would be included in a league with some of those big names.

Messed up isn't it. Just shows how ridiculous European football has become that Ajax would have to be part of this. Not from a top 5 league and not seen as being in top 18 clubs despite being bigger than the likes of Man City and Chelsea.

[Ozyhibby]

One thing about HJK is if they only get 5k fans at games then it will be taken into account how that looks on TV. There will be presentational criteria.


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[MWHIBBIES]

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Away days are a huge part of supporting the club but for a small percentage of supporters.

Hibs average attendance is in the region of 16/17000 and our away attendance is around 10% of that. Meaning for around 90% of the support away days are either something that only happens once or twice a season or never at all.

The average amount of Hibs fans in attendance is significantly less than 17k. Nearer 14k for most games. We'd have a lower attendance straight off the bat, with no guarantee of this being a success.

Thankfully, it's not happening.

[Ozyhibby]

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The average amount of Hibs fans in attendance is significantly less than 17k. Nearer 14k for most games. We'd have a lower attendance straight off the bat, with no guarantee of this being a success.

Thankfully, it's not happening.

Why would we have a lower attendance?


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[MWHIBBIES]

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Why would we have a lower attendance?


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No away fans? And plenty won't be for this.

[Ozyhibby]

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No away fans? And plenty won't be for this.

Pretty sure with the right marketing we could replace the 250 St. Mirren fans with home fans for a visit from Malmo or Ajax.


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[Pagan Hibernia]

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Pretty sure with the right marketing we could replace the 250 St. Mirren fans with home fans for a visit from Malmo or Ajax.


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it’s only a handful of years since there were thousands of empty seats for derby matches against hearts...

and I don’t think it’s any exaggeration to suggest several thousand Hibs fans might want nothing to do with this.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Pretty sure with the right marketing we could replace the 250 St. Mirren fans with home fans for a visit from Malmo or Ajax.


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I'm sure Ajax will be ****ing buzzing to partner up with Hibs

Nae chance. It's just not happening and rightly so.