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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    They should just do away with it and revert to the old swings and roundabouts. Keep the goalline technology though!
    That is where I am at.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member Pagan Hibernia's Avatar
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    Hate it with a passion. Hope we never see it in Scotland.

    i for one like the controversial decisions that you can argue about in the pub (in normal circumstances).

    Sometimes they go for you, sometimes they go against you. That’s life.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with VAR. In years to come we'll take it for granted. It's the application of it, as with every other human decision that causes problems. I didn't watch after match yesterday so have no idea why the goal was disallowed. However if lino had flagged for offside & there was no VAR we would have thought it was a wrong decision & been calling for VAR IN order to allow the goal. Remember in 2 of our early games last season, Elgin & St M IIRC, we were denied goals that were 2 yards onside. Anything that improves the accuracy of decision making must surely be good for the game.

  5. #34
    If the Liverpool game was a test case then VAR would be dead in the water. The goal was not offside AND Everton should have been down to 10 men for serious foul play. Its heart braking when your on the wrong end of a wrong decision and hence I've been in favour....my memory of the 2012 qualifier against the Czech's....needed a win and we were 2-1 up, they got a last minute penalty where the tv pictures showed no contact, a clear dive. To make it worse a minute after they equalised we went straight down the park and Berra goes down in their box...ref waves play on but (and this still hurts) tv showed in this case there was contact and it was a penalty!
    In that example we can say at full speed during a game the ref can't see everything and therefore, mistakes happen. VAR was meant to remove that but yesterday shows it can make it a lot, lot worse. Also, pretty sure it wasn't designed to stop the game for 5 minutes every time the ball goes anywhere near the box.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Weil View Post
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    If the Liverpool game was a test case then VAR would be dead in the water. The goal was not offside AND Everton should have been down to 10 men for serious foul play. Its heart braking when your on the wrong end of a wrong decision and hence I've been in favour....my memory of the 2012 qualifier against the Czech's....needed a win and we were 2-1 up, they got a last minute penalty where the tv pictures showed no contact, a clear dive. To make it worse a minute after they equalised we went straight down the park and Berra goes down in their box...ref waves play on but (and this still hurts) tv showed in this case there was contact and it was a penalty!
    In that example we can say at full speed during a game the ref can't see everything and therefore, mistakes happen. VAR was meant to remove that but yesterday shows it can make it a lot, lot worse. Also, pretty sure it wasn't designed to stop the game for 5 minutes every time the ball goes anywhere near the box.
    VAR had nothing to do with any "wrong" decisions yesterday. If they were errors then they were human in nature.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Weil View Post
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    If the Liverpool game was a test case then VAR would be dead in the water. The goal was not offside AND Everton should have been down to 10 men for serious foul play. Its heart braking when your on the wrong end of a wrong decision and hence I've been in favour....my memory of the 2012 qualifier against the Czech's....needed a win and we were 2-1 up, they got a last minute penalty where the tv pictures showed no contact, a clear dive. To make it worse a minute after they equalised we went straight down the park and Berra goes down in their box...ref waves play on but (and this still hurts) tv showed in this case there was contact and it was a penalty!
    In that example we can say at full speed during a game the ref can't see everything and therefore, mistakes happen. VAR was meant to remove that but yesterday shows it can make it a lot, lot worse. Also, pretty sure it wasn't designed to stop the game for 5 minutes every time the ball goes anywhere near the box.
    The offside from yesterday I can live with, only because I have seen plenty of similar decisions via VAR. What I can’t comprehend is the lack of action against Pickford.

  8. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by brog View Post
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    VAR had nothing to do with any "wrong" decisions yesterday. If they were errors then they were human in nature.
    VAR was used as a tool to make the decisions. No VAR and Liverpool would have had a penalty earlier in the game and the Everton goalie would have walked, the second goal would also have stood. Yesterday proved that this tool does not remove obvious error, only that when the ref has umpteen chances to look at an incident and then makes an error it somehow makes it worse. The very existence of VAR changed the result of the game yesterday.

  9. #38
    First Team Breakthrough Risboro Hibby's Avatar
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    Keep VAR well away from Scottish football. Ruining the Spontaneous excitement of the game in England

    As you say you can quote examples of when it might have helped us. If we had VAR in Scotland our equalising goal against Rangers this year would have been chalked off

    The decision makers in football should always be the on field officials not somebody with a maths degree looking at angles in a studio.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member brog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Weil View Post
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    VAR was used as a tool to make the decisions. No VAR and Liverpool would have had a penalty earlier in the game and the Everton goalie would have walked, the second goal would also have stood. Yesterday proved that this tool does not remove obvious error, only that when the ref has umpteen chances to look at an incident and then makes an error it somehow makes it worse. The very existence of VAR changed the result of the game yesterday.
    Why would Liverpool have had a penalty without VAR? The ref/lino gave offside so without VAR that decision would have stood. As for the goalie walking, he should have but keepers get away with reckless challenges all the time. Craig Gordon has a cv full of those challenges. Again nothing to do with VAR, without VAR offside would have stood.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul1642 View Post
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    For me it should only be used for hugely wrong decisions. Disallowing a goal because the striker was 0.1 inches offside may technically be correct but it’s killing the game, just like the stupid hand ball rule.
    All the Derby drama of a last minute goal lost yesterday to a VAR debate and a s Yr system that ruled on offside but couldn't send the Everton keeper off

    It is helping the premiership become this synthetic football experience where 80 plus grand a week ply their trade to TV audiences

  12. #41
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    The whole thing's unfair anyway. Why should the top sides get VAR and goalline technology when Albion Rovers have to make do with Specsavers?

    It's one law for the rich and another etc etc...

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by brog View Post
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    Why would Liverpool have had a penalty without VAR? The ref/lino gave offside so without VAR that decision would have stood. .
    You might be right, I watched the highlights and when the keepers tackle went in I saw the linesmans flag go up so I assumed the offside hadn't been given. In that case the offside was clear (don't know why that had to go to VAR in the first place), don't understand though why the keeper didn't walk.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    VAR won't come into Scotland. The bigot twins would be the big losers. The amount of seriously bad decisions they both get in their favour would/should reduce significantly

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brog View Post
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    Why would Liverpool have had a penalty without VAR? The ref/lino gave offside so without VAR that decision would have stood. As for the goalie walking, he should have but keepers get away with reckless challenges all the time. Craig Gordon has a cv full of those challenges. Again nothing to do with VAR, without VAR offside would have stood.

    I actually think they mentioned that he was onside even though flagged off but due to nothing coming from it it wasn't looked at again hence why the challenge should've then been looked at for a red.

  16. #45
    The goalie couldn't be sent off for serious foul play. He could have been sent off for violent conduct if the ref decided he had set out to deliberately injure the Liverpool player.

    VAR was supposed to be used to right obvious wrongs. One minute should be the maximum time allowed for consideration of an offence. To me refs are using it as an excuse and refusing to use their own eyes as happened in that ball over the line incident when the VAR view was blocked.

  17. #46
    The whole thing is an utter shambles in England and the decisions made yesterday were ludicrous to say the least. The assault upon Virgil was a straight red all day long and yet the ref wasn't told about a clear and obvious error. The winning goal was perfectly legal according to the rules of the game which VAR can seemingly ignore at will. In the photo of the decision I couldn't see the toes of the defender at the top of the screen because of the pixelated line but this was overlooked as we scrutinised Mane's elbow, or maybe a gust of wind had blown his shirt sleeve in a forward motion of 3 thousandth's of a millimetre. Bloody clever these computer geeks, just a pity they know bugger all about football.

  18. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    The goalie couldn't be sent off for serious foul play. He could have been sent off for violent conduct if the ref decided he had set out to deliberately injure the Liverpool player.

    VAR was supposed to be used to right obvious wrongs. One minute should be the maximum time allowed for consideration of an offence. To me refs are using it as an excuse and refusing to use their own eyes as happened in that ball over the line incident when the VAR view was blocked.
    Not true at all, he could still have been sent off for serious foul play, which was all confirmed during the game yesterday. Whether the ball is in play or not it’s still serious foul play.

  19. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyAsHellas View Post
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    The whole thing is an utter shambles in England and the decisions made yesterday were ludicrous to say the least. The assault upon Virgil was a straight red all day long and yet the ref wasn't told about a clear and obvious error. The winning goal was perfectly legal according to the rules of the game which VAR can seemingly ignore at will. In the photo of the decision I couldn't see the toes of the defender at the top of the screen because of the pixelated line but this was overlooked as we scrutinised Mane's elbow, or maybe a gust of wind had blown his shirt sleeve in a forward motion of 3 thousandth's of a millimetre. Bloody clever these computer geeks, just a pity they know bugger all about football.
    Computer geeks have absolutely zero to do with VAR. VAR shows a replay or a still image, the officials make decisions.

  20. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by hibbysam View Post
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    Not true at all, he could still have been sent off for serious foul play, which was all confirmed during the game yesterday. Whether the ball is in play or not it’s still serious foul play.
    I think whoever said that is wrong-particularly if it's a pundit. The punishment for foul play is a free kick. That can't be awarded if the ball is not in play so the offence comes under violent conduct.

  21. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Computer geeks have absolutely zero to do with VAR. VAR shows a replay or a still image, the officials make decisions.
    So who decides on the exact moment the pass leaves the players boot and who decides where to put these lines across the screen etc?
    I genuinely don't know

    Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Spence View Post
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    So who decides on the exact moment the pass leaves the players boot and who decides where to put these lines across the screen etc?
    I genuinely don't know

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    That it someones job I guess. Its not as if they are doing it wrong. Wrong decisions are nothing to do with that person, though.

  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    That it someones job I guess. Its not as if they are doing it wrong. Wrong decisions are nothing to do with that person, though.
    Cheers
    I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to var. When it was first touted I thought it would be a good thing for the game but it's clearly not going to plan and needs sorting

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  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Only football could make such a James Hunt of this. Cricket, tennis, American football, rugby union and league all have successfully managed to use technology to enhance the games and to make sure the correct decisions are made. Football though seems to have been able to make it worse!

  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Spence View Post
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    Cheers
    I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to var. When it was first touted I thought it would be a good thing for the game but it's clearly not going to plan and needs sorting

    Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
    Undoubtedly. I think the idea is sound but the execution is ****ing dreadful so far, mainly in England though. The referees aren't helping themselves at all. VAR should only be used to check for clear and obvious errors.

  26. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES View Post
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    Undoubtedly. I think the idea is sound but the execution is ****ing dreadful so far, mainly in England though. The referees aren't helping themselves at all. VAR should only be used to check for clear and obvious errors.
    It does seem to be just England but I reckon that's down to the amount of English fitbaw we see up here. I have a mate from Milan and I can't remember what game it was I watched when I was visiting him but var gave a penalty in one match I watched which would never have been given in Scotland. I remember saying so to my mate and he said as soon as your hand/arm hits the ball then it's a penalty accidental or not.
    I actually agree with you and it should be for clear cut errors

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    Last edited by Stanton Spence; 18-10-2020 at 08:11 PM.

  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member jacomo's Avatar
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    I hate VAR and would like to see it binned.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
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    I hate VAR and would like to see it binned.
    I like it but think EPL have made an erse of it. Don't think the same issues in other leagues.

  29. #58
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    If the FA can make this much of a mess of it, what do you think the SFA could do with it?

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacomo View Post
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    I hate VAR and would like to see it binned.
    If it's done right then it's fine, if it's done badly then it's a problem.

    Just finished watching the NFL and a Baltimore interception was reviewed and overturned because there was clear evidence the ball hit the ground. If there wasn't, then the interception would have stood rather than replay it for ten minutes to determine whether a blade of grass flinched or was touched.
    Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.

  31. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    I think whoever said that is wrong-particularly if it's a pundit. The punishment for foul play is a free kick. That can't be awarded if the ball is not in play so the offence comes under violent conduct.
    It was PGMOL - if you think they are wrong then fair play.

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