Staying on your feet

[h1bs4life]

Watched all the 1st half and bits of the second half due to dodgy stream.
But looked like Boyle did it twice and Doidge did it as well when they tried to stay on there feet instead of going down .
Boyle when was through and getting dragged back instead of going down for the penalty carried on off balance and missed.
Same thing 10 mins later on the wing again tried to stay on his feet and always got wiped out by the full back .
Doidge did the same second half , instead of trying to stay on your feet go down when fouled you don't get any thanks for attempting to stay on your feet.
Mind you with that ref he probably wouldn't give anything, the one near the end when the full back had Boyle by the neck he played on and gave a bye kick was unbelievable.

[Scottie]

Go down and get the pen every time for me because refs in Scotland will give you nothing otherwise. At least make them make a decision.

Mind you if we took our chances we created today we wouldn't have needed any penalties. Poor poor finishing cost us all 3 points today.

[basehibby]

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Watched all the 1st half and bits of the second half due to dodgy stream.
But looked like Boyle did it twice and Doidge did it as well when they tried to stay on there feet instead of going down .
Boyle when was through and getting dragged back instead of going down for the penalty carried on off balance and missed.
Same thing 10 mins later on the wing again tried to stay on his feet and always got wiped out by the full back .
Doidge did the same second half , instead of trying to stay on your feet go down when fouled you don't get any thanks for attempting to stay on your feet.
Mind you with that ref he probably wouldn't give anything, the one near the end when the full back had Boyle by the neck he played on and gave a bye kick was unbelievable.

Interesting conundrum. We all like to see players playing to the whistle and trying to play football even if impeded rather than throwing themselves to the ground at the first hint of contact. Good referees will spot such infringements - allow advantage when appropriate and award the foul if it doesn't transpire. But we all know that not all refs are good refs and even the good ones make mistakes.

Sadly, the reality seems to be in football that cheats often prosper. Talented cheats that is.

Look at the major championships - the World Cups and Champion's Leagues - and you will usually find that the successful sides - although invariably talented - will be prepared to do ANYTHING to win. And that includes taking a tumble in and around the box after the faintest of contacts (or even anticipated contact).

That kind of thing leaves a bad taste in the mouth - but so does losing - or failing to win. Ultimately, I love to see an honest player playing to the whistle but if a questionable penalty wins us through in a big match after the striker goes down easily I'll take it and I won't be lining up to give our striker pelters about it either.

[PatHead]

If a Hearts player finds themselves in that position in the semi, I can guarantee they will go down. Probably a red card as well.

We do need to be cuter.

[h1bs4life]

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If a Hearts player finds themselves in that position in the semi, I can guarantee they will go down. Probably a red card as well.

We do need to be cuter.

That's guaranteed they have had a few penalties already this season.
I am not talking about diving , when Boyle was going through he was fouled and knocked of his ba!ance but he tried all he could to stay on his feet rather than going down and getting the penalty . If you manage to stay on your feet in the penalty box then ref isn't going to give it.
Doidge was the same , go down as you were fouled and give the ref a decision to make.

[Iggy Pope]

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If a Hearts player finds themselves in that position in the semi, I can guarantee they will go down. Probably a red card as well.

We do need to be cuter.

Martin Boyle needs to be better on his first occasion not cuter. Two clear cut chances he should have put away.

[PatHead]

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Martin Boyle needs to be better on his first occasion not cuter. Two clear cut chances he should have put away.

I agree with that but to be fair for the first chance,him being fouled allowed the defender to get back and block the shot.

No excuse for the second one though.

[Iggy Pope]

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I agree with that but to be fair for the first chance,him being fouled allowed the defender to get back and block the shot.

No excuse for the second one though.

I honestly thought he should have done better with the first as well. Maybe I’m getting on his case as I don’t think he’s producing really, much as I love him. I hope a week on the training pitch with all his mates does him good and Hibs TV don’t appear ask for him to give us another laugh or that.

[Keith_M]

Gary O'Connor always made it clear to the Ref when a defender had fouled him, pulled his shirt or whatever.

For example, a sneaky push in the back and Gary's hands would go up in the air and he'd dramatically lunge forward. It usually worked as it alerted the ref to the offence and he'd instinctively award a free-kick

Was he fouled? Yes. Did he egg it a bit? Absolutely... but I wouldn't condemn him for it as the alternative was often that the defender would have got away with foul play and unfairly restricted our attacking play.

[h1bs4life]

Thought I had maybe been seeing things as there was no sign of Boyle's 1st chance on either Sportscene or Hibs TV highlights although both mentioned on the one they showed that it was his second chance.
Checked the full game and the 1st one was about 3 mins 20 seconds in , he gets pushed in the back by the defender and should have went down.
It knocked him of balance which gave them enough time to get a tackle.in When he was on the ground he looked at the ref for a penalty.
Needs to be cuter , make it so the ref has to make a decision.
No sign of the Doidge one in the 2nd half wasn't in the highlights and not watching the whole 2nd half for it , although I did miss quite a bit of it at the time

[BlackSheep]

I understand the theory in going down when fouled, but its the officials responsibility to give the foul regardless of how the play goes on (with exception of an advantage). In the case when Boyle was being held by the neck then there was no clear advantage there so the play should have been brought back for a foul, but our officials are terrible and we cannot rely on them to make clear decisions. What ends up happening is players realise that the refs are rubbish and then feel the need to over egg a challenge and then are labelled with the diver tag.... or like Kamberi when he was with us, he would back into players and they would haul him down and he got nothing after a few months in the league... as the refs just see it as him playing for the foul, which in many cases wasn't what was happening. I think doidge suffers slightly from this too at the moment, his hold up play is great but he isn't getting as many fouls as he should be aware, he has to be aware that defenders and refs are aware of his style of play and maybe change it up a we bit, with a quick one two or try and turn the defenders and get fouled or even better get past them.

[gbhibby]

Do what you need to do to win. I would not have said this a few years ago but you need to be cute, as other teams do it. You have to make the referee make a decision staying on your feet allows a ref the get out clause of playing the advantage rule. Notice that Hearts players against Dundee have got this down to a fine art.
Doidge needs to watch SJM on how to use your ars*.

[Colnehibee]

I've long thought that the best way to stop cheating (or "simulation") was to tell referees they mustn't award a free-kick unless in their opinion the "fouled" player made every effort to stay on their feet. Would be a bit rugby where you have to make every effort to roll away from a ruck (maul?) or you'll concede a penalty. At first people said it was an impossible rule to police but now it's accepted.

[hibbysam]

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I've long thought that the best way to stop cheating (or "simulation") was to tell referees they mustn't award a free-kick unless in their opinion the "fouled" player made every effort to stay on their feet. Would be a bit rugby where you have to make every effort to roll away from a ruck (maul?) or you'll concede a penalty. At first people said it was an impossible rule to police but now it's accepted.

Or referees could just give fouls whether a player has been fouled or not, regardless of if they end up on their feet or on the deck.

Pissed me off no end listening to Dermot Gallagher on Monday telling the world that he wouldn’t give arsenal a penalty for dangerous play because there was no direct contact with a players head, even though he would give a free kick outside the box for the same challenge. The player had to back out of the header due to the boot being so high, but he wanted the player to take a dull one before giving a penalty. Shambles.

[h1bs4life]

Said it last week , if you are nudged / fouled don't try and stay on your feet make the referee have to make a decision.
Doidge did it well today , Killie were good at going down and winning free kicks. The one late in the game where there player wrapped there leg round Gogic and then fell down got them a chance to put a ball in the box.