What's the chances of fans going back in September?

[Moulin Yarns]

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It’s far more likely, and relevant in line with the restrictions to have it in tier 2 though. Your point about the 60% is fair, however if we then expect those clubs to have to get up to tier 1 it’s going to be a very long time until that happens. Big cities are highly unlikely to be moved down the tiers anytime soon.

I take it you missed this explanation why level 2 is excluded.

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👍

People are forgetting that the guidelines for each level were published at the end of October to come into effect on 2nd November. In the guidelines (Strategic Framework) for stadia and events it is only in level 0 and 1 that any spectators are allowed in restricted numbers. To think that Aberdeen, in level 2, should have spectators in before they come down to level 1 is just pie in the sky.

Instead of trying to loosen the restrictions they should be encouraging everyone to help bring the city down to level 1.

[danhibees1875]

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Just supposing we did it would probably require lots of stewards. Fag packet alert...

200 Stewards
£10 per hour (based on ***** pay rates)
5 hours attandance
G4S Gross margin 40%
VAT 20%

In effect close to £17k per game without a penny of extra revenue. Not sustainable when your revenues are already 50% down unless you take up the government loan repayable over 10 years.

I don't think they'd need anywhere near that amount of stewards for a limited capacity and home fans only game. However factoring in other overheads then it'll absolutely cost the club money, I agree.

I know football is a bit of a special case when it comes to customer relations but I'm not convinced that should allow any club to just not provide the product that has already been paid for. They'd be taking what was already a generous gesture from fans to pay a lot of money for something they knew they'd get limited use of and would be taking the mick with it at that stage.

It's worth noting that this isn't a criticism of Hibs as it's a hypothetical situation and I don't believe they'd make that decision in the circumstances.

[hibbysam]

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I take it you missed this explanation why level 2 is excluded.

You are quoting government frameworks which I disagree with, not sure that’s an explanation as to why sports is in tier 1 while far more riskier industries are in tier 2. I’m sure you will also understand why big cities will find it far more difficult to get to tier 1, not just because of numbers but also because of the governments reluctance to drop them down as seen with Edinburgh.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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I don't think they'd need anywhere near that amount of stewards for a limited capacity and home fans only game. However factoring in other overheads then it'll absolutely cost the club money, I agree.

I know football is a bit of a special case when it comes to customer relations but I'm not convinced that should allow any club to just not provide the product that has already been paid for. They'd be taking what was already a generous gesture from fans to pay a lot of money for something they knew they'd get limited use of and would be taking the mick with it at that stage.

It's worth noting that this isn't a criticism of Hibs as it's a hypothetical situation and I don't believe they'd make that decision in the circumstances.

Number of stewards will be dictated not by the numbers attending but favt full stadium open

c50 turnstile queues to manage implys one steward per queues
C20 Exit gates, one per stairway c50 45 section with one each enforcing distancing is 165 without taking into account inside and round the ground

[Radium]

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Is everyone turning up at the same time and standing in the same queue to go in the same turnstile?

Good question


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[Radium]

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We have the east stand, the famous five stand, and the west stand upper. Why would everyone be in one queue, even if it was one stand then we still have multiple turnstiles. Nobody would be spending 15 minutes within 2m, or even 1m of anyone else. Queues from Easter Road to Portobello to get into the football

Did you stand in one of the queues to get into shops. A small percentage of the numbers we are talking about led to queues around large car parks.


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[Jones28]

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Good question


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You'd have to have staggered entry times, say 3 15 minute slots in the build up to kick off. People who miss their entry slot would have to wait until after kick off to get in IMO.

[Moulin Yarns]

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You are quoting government frameworks which I disagree with, not sure that’s an explanation as to why sports is in tier 1 while far more riskier industries are in tier 2. I’m sure you will also understand why big cities will find it far more difficult to get to tier 1, not just because of numbers but also because of the governments reluctance to drop them down as seen with Edinburgh.

Just because you disagree with the framework doesn't mean that you are right though.

Aberdeen is in level 2, heading towards level 3, and still they think that they have some entitlement to get spectators back. The framework is there for a reason, and certain things are not going to happen until areas lower the amount of virus, football with spectators is one of them, whether you agree or not.

At the beginning of July it's a fact that football with spectators would probably have been possible but with the easing of lockdown the virus got out of control and that was down to people not following the rules. So blame them and not the lawmakers.

[danhibees1875]

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Number of stewards will be dictated not by the numbers attending but favt full stadium open

c50 turnstile queues to manage implys one steward per queues
C20 Exit gates, one per stairway c50 45 section with one each enforcing distancing is 165 without taking into account inside and round the ground

I knew I should have just left out the bit about stewards - it wasn't really the point I wanted to make.


Would we be using every stand and going back to manned turnstiles? I could see the logic in both but not sure that's what has been happening elsewhere when fans have been let back in. When I was a steward there were more of us at the games where they were expecting a bigger and more boisterous away support.

Regardless, it's a cost I'd expect Hibs to pay to let fans back when they can.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I knew I should have just left out the bit about stewards - it wasn't really the point I wanted to make.


Would we be using every stand and going back to manned turnstiles? I could see the logic in both but not sure that's what has been happening elsewhere when fans have been let back in. When I was a steward there were more of us at the games where they were expecting a bigger and more boisterous away support.

Regardless, it's a cost I'd expect Hibs to pay to let fans back when they can.

When the time comes maybe hibs could 'employ' season ticket holders as stewards. 300 fans and 9,700 stewards 😉

[danhibees1875]

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When the time comes maybe hibs could 'employ' season ticket holders as stewards. 300 fans and 9,700 stewards 😉

I used to never take league game shifts at Easter road cause I had a season ticket but I got to enjoy the odd cup game or friendly and be paid for the privilege.

If Hibs want to be the safest team in the league and have 1000 stewards for every punter then that's up to them.

[Sir David Gray]

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When the time comes maybe hibs could 'employ' season ticket holders as stewards. 300 fans and 9,700 stewards 😉

That's a fantastic idea, maybe we can float this one past Leeann Dempster as one of her final duties as CEO.

[CockneyRebel]

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Just because you disagree with the framework doesn't mean that you are right though.

Aberdeen is in level 2, heading towards level 3, and still they think that they have some entitlement to get spectators back. The framework is there for a reason, and certain things are not going to happen until areas lower the amount of virus, football with spectators is one of them, whether you agree or not.

At the beginning of July it's a fact that football with spectators would probably have been possible but with the easing of lockdown the virus got out of control and that was down to people not following the rules. So blame them and not the lawmakers.

That bit in bold is why we are still where we are today. I have witnessed it every day since the virus was identified and I can't believe I'm the only one constantly seeing a-holes giving it large while being responsible for the ongoing suffering of others. It would have been nice if the crisis had bought everyone together but the selfish and the ignorant are always with us.

[Moulin Yarns]

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That's a fantastic idea, maybe we can float this one past Leeann Dempster as one of her final duties as CEO.

Where is Keiran when we need him?

[Moulin Yarns]

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That bit in bold is why we are still where we are today. I have witnessed it every day since the virus was identified and I can't believe I'm the only one constantly seeing a-holes giving it large while being responsible for the ongoing suffering of others. It would have been nice if the crisis had bought everyone together but the selfish and the ignorant are always with us.

Thanks. Totally agree.

As an example, the house next to me is owned by a couple from Shropshire, which is in tier 2 in the English system, They arrived here last night, travelling 340 miles into a Scottish level 3 area. I'm livid as I can't go away to the Lake District over New Year, just the 2 of us.

[cabbageandribs1875]

in order to maximise cash for the club i propose only walk-ups get in initially














:)

[hibbysam]

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Just because you disagree with the framework doesn't mean that you are right though.

Aberdeen is in level 2, heading towards level 3, and still they think that they have some entitlement to get spectators back. The framework is there for a reason, and certain things are not going to happen until areas lower the amount of virus, football with spectators is one of them, whether you agree or not.

At the beginning of July it's a fact that football with spectators would probably have been possible but with the easing of lockdown the virus got out of control and that was down to people not following the rules. So blame them and not the lawmakers.

Two things, of course I don’t agree with them, that’s my whole argument. Simply saying ‘read my previous post’ which backs up what I’m arguing against doesn’t settle anything.

Secondly, it wasn’t the people; the second lockdown was due to holidays primarily. Holidays people were legally allowed to go on. Blame the lawmakers for this mess, your playing right into their hands.

[hibbysam]

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Did you stand in one of the queues to get into shops. A small percentage of the numbers we are talking about led to queues around large car parks.


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You do realise only a set amount were allowed in the shop at one time, once it was full, it was one in one out. That’s not the case with football. Those turning up are all getting in at the same time, you don’t have to wait until someone leaves. There are also about 30 additional entry points at the football. It’s probably the worst comparison I’ve seen yet.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Two things, of course I don’t agree with them, that’s my whole argument. Simply saying ‘read my previous post’ which backs up what I’m arguing against doesn’t settle anything.

Secondly, it wasn’t the people; the second lockdown was due to holidays primarily. Holidays people were legally allowed to go on. Blame the lawmakers for this mess, your playing right into their hands.

Presumably the people who went on holiday didn't listen to the advice about essential travel only. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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When the time comes maybe hibs could 'employ' season ticket holders as stewards. 300 fans and 9,700 stewards 😉

Thats one hell of a ppe order for yellow jackets🤣🤣🤣

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Two things, of course I don’t agree with them, that’s my whole argument. Simply saying ‘read my previous post’ which backs up what I’m arguing against doesn’t settle anything.

Secondly, it wasn’t the people; the second lockdown was due to holidays primarily. Holidays people were legally allowed to go on. Blame the lawmakers for this mess, your playing right into their hands.

Given the report on Wednesday pointing the finger at the genomes responsible for the resurgence they were in fact introduced in many cases by individuals who must have flaunted the rules on self isolation not to mention the selfish bovine creature from Ayrshire who caught Covid in Zante, didn't self isolate on return and became a suoef spreader like the French off shore worker who kicked off the Aberdeen outbreak.

[hibbysam]

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Given the report on Wednesday pointing the finger at the genomes responsible for the resurgence they were in fact introduced in many cases by individuals who must have flaunted the rules on self isolation not to mention the selfish bovine creature from Ayrshire who caught Covid in Zante, didn't self isolate on return and became a suoef spreader like the French off shore worker who kicked off the Aberdeen outbreak.

While not condoning everyone that possibly ignored self isolation rules, even the government acknowledged that they failed those that were returning by not providing financial support for it (hence the £500 payment that was later introduced). Did everyone follow rules? Absolutely not, most tried their best, a minority disregarded them completely. To blame the resurgence of the virus on the people is what the government want though, which masks the huge mistakes that they have made, and are continuing to make.

A bit like saying football deserves to stay in tier 1 and above only as the government said so, completely ignoring any arguments the other way.

[davhibby]

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I’m not sure I follow, so you want Aberdeen to forget about themselves, and instead work on something that would benefit other clubs? As it stands the tier 1 clubs don’t need that many more fans into the ground, most of them only get a few hundred in anyway on a regular basis. The conversation has to be around getting fans into tier 2 as that’s where majority of clubs fall. The only plan that should be needed is a full risk assessment and plan for the stadium, majority of clubs will have that in place already and be presenting that to the SPFL/SFA and in turn taking that to the government.

We seem to be very good at blaming the clubs, who have, in the main, followed protocols and rules constantly, yet it’s the government who won’t enter dialogue.

Well Aberdeen going themselves has worked well for them so far hasn’t it? The government aren’t going to apply the rules to individual clubs or that would just get stupid.

My overall point here is that if a proper plan was brought to the government to get proper numbers in at the levels they are currently allowing fans in at, then the SFA and the clubs can put something together for level 2 and try and get that approved. What’s happening at the moment isn’t and won’t work no matter whether you think teams should be allowed fans at level 2 or not

[hibbysam]

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Well Aberdeen going themselves has worked well for them so far hasn’t it? The government aren’t going to apply the rules to individual clubs or that would just get stupid.

My overall point here is that if a proper plan was brought to the government to get proper numbers in at the levels they are currently allowing fans in at, then the SFA and the clubs can put something together for level 2 and try and get that approved. What’s happening at the moment isn’t and won’t work no matter whether you think teams should be allowed fans at level 2 or not

How do you know what plans the JRG, the SPFL and the SFA have tried to put to the government? There’s no chance that Doncaster would’ve went public had he not put a plan to them, or if they had entered proper communications. Also, why are the government so reluctant to enter dialogue with these authorities? What plan do you honestly want? The clubs have the proof that the test events worked, they have proof that they have their procedures in place, they’re not asking for full houses, they are asking to be treated fairly and equally with the rest of society. As it stands, looking at the tier system, it’s completely unfair, and it’s economic suicide from the government who are essentially pissing tens of millions against a wall, instead of gradually allowing fans into grounds.

[Moulin Yarns]

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How do you know what plans the JRG, the SPFL and the SFA have tried to put to the government? There’s no chance that Doncaster would’ve went public had he not put a plan to them, or if they had entered proper communications. Also, why are the government so reluctant to enter dialogue with these authorities? What plan do you honestly want? The clubs have the proof that the test events worked, they have proof that they have their procedures in place, they’re not asking for full houses, they are asking to be treated fairly and equally with the rest of society. As it stands, looking at the tier system, it’s completely unfair, and it’s economic suicide from the government who are essentially pissing tens of millions against a wall, instead of gradually allowing fans into grounds.

There's no use both you and Cormack moaning, it won't alter the government approach to saving lives. Wait for May when you can vote for the other parties at the election.

[CockneyRebel]

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Presumably the people who went on holiday didn't listen to the advice about essential travel only. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.

Exactly!

[AugustaHibs]

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Presumably the people who went on holiday didn't listen to the advice about essential travel only. People have to take responsibility for their own actions.

Nice to get some time in the sun though eh.

I’ll blame the government for their total incompetence before I start blaming folk going on holiday 🤣

[Moulin Yarns]

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Nice to get some time in the sun though eh.

I’ll blame the government for their total incompetence before I start blaming folk going on holiday 🤣

It's people who came back from holiday that has spread the virus, not the government.

[hibbysam]

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There's no use both you and Cormack moaning, it won't alter the government approach to saving lives. Wait for May when you can vote for the other parties at the election.

And a grand job they’re doing of that.

[davhibby]

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How do you know what plans the JRG, the SPFL and the SFA have tried to put to the government? There’s no chance that Doncaster would’ve went public had he not put a plan to them, or if they had entered proper communications. Also, why are the government so reluctant to enter dialogue with these authorities? What plan do you honestly want? The clubs have the proof that the test events worked, they have proof that they have their procedures in place, they’re not asking for full houses, they are asking to be treated fairly and equally with the rest of society. As it stands, looking at the tier system, it’s completely unfair, and it’s economic suicide from the government who are essentially pissing tens of millions against a wall, instead of gradually allowing fans into grounds.

I’m going on the fact that we barely hear anything from the people in charge except from the occasional moan in the press, if Aberdeen are able to put the plans they’ve put to the government for themselves out then I’d be expect the SFA would be doing the same if they were being ignored.

There’s absolutely nothing to suggest that Doncaster or the clubs have come up with anything, if anything the fact that Aberdeen have spent the last 4 months putting forward their own proposals tells its own story about what’s being done by those involved with the JRG