What's the chances of fans going back in September?

[cabbageandribs1875]

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You’ve got a stick up your arse about rugby, that’s your problem, not Derek Leitch’s - who you seem to forget was making weekly appearances on Scottish footballs biggest single radio programme.

i very much enjoy listening to him on OTB



looks like someone has taken his insulting avatar off....sure he'll be looking for another one



i was right

[Jones28]

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i very much enjoy listening to him on OTB



looks like someone has taken his insulting avatar off....sure he'll be looking for another one



i was right

Holy **** 😂

I couldn’t see it on my phone

[hibbysam]

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It looks like the past couple of pages are in the wrong forum, get politics off the football forum.

When politicians hold football fans in such disregard, then it’s entirely legit to have it on the football forum. Comparisons with far riskier industries is completely right and proper, and proves this point.

[Radium]

I have asked this question before.

2500 fans inside Easter Road with physical distancing is doable. We can no doubt put arrows on the floors to move people around and let people get to the toilet. Most businesses will have done similar. We have barcode entry for season tickets but presumably wouldn’t use the turnstiles as they are another touch point - sure that there’s a way around this without needing a steward to check every ticket.

Does anybody know if STs were enough for track and trace in the test events? Was additional ID used? Not as if people share tickets.

How do the 2500 fans arrive at the ground safely keeping a safe distance from those outside their household? Queues would presumably be between 1 and 2 miles in length. Do we give time slots? Do we spread the fans across 3 stands to split the queues?The default would seem to be that only ST holders staying in the City of Edinburgh would go to minimise travel?

They then have to leave so similar questions arise.

Comparisons to cinemas is false given the numbers involved.

There are many areas to criticise the SG on but not letting fans in across level 2, 3 & 4 areas isn’t one as far as I am concerned.

Doncaster is just a blether.

The bleating from the chairman who wanted us to play at half seven on a Saturday night is sabre rattling. If they were serious they would be looking at a plan for next season and getting ready for ST renewals, or maybe that is all he is doing.


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[Jones28]

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that doesn’t mean that he is engaging with football..........being on Scottish radio biggest football programme is akin to be on SNP radio.....

There’s literally nothing anyone can say in response to this, the guys was on off the ball every week and but he’s on SNP radio? Wtf even is that?

[Jones28]

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I have asked this question before.

2500 fans inside Easter Road with physical distancing is doable. We can no doubt put arrows on the floors to move people around and let people get to the toilet. Most businesses will have done similar. We have barcode entry for season tickets but presumably wouldn’t use the turnstiles as they are another touch point - sure that there’s a way around this without needing a steward to check every ticket.

Does anybody know if STs were enough for track and trace in the test events? Was additional ID used? Not as if people share tickets.

How do the 2500 fans arrive at the ground safely keeping a safe distance from those outside their household? Queues would presumably be between 1 and 2 miles in length. Do we give time slots? Do we spread the fans across 3 stands to split the queues?The default would seem to be that only ST holders staying in the City of Edinburgh would go to minimise travel?

They then have to leave so similar questions arise.

Comparisons to cinemas is false given the numbers involved.

There are many areas to criticise the SG on but not letting fans in across level 2, 3 & 4 areas isn’t one as far as I am concerned.

Doncaster is just a blether.

The bleating from the chairman who wanted us to play at half seven on a Saturday night is sabre rattling. If they were serious they would be looking at a plan for next season and getting ready for ST renewals, or maybe that is all he is doing.


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Well said.

[B.H.F.C]

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I have asked this question before.

2500 fans inside Easter Road with physical distancing is doable. We can no doubt put arrows on the floors to move people around and let people get to the toilet. Most businesses will have done similar. We have barcode entry for season tickets but presumably wouldn’t use the turnstiles as they are another touch point - sure that there’s a way around this without needing a steward to check every ticket.

Does anybody know if STs were enough for track and trace in the test events? Was additional ID used? Not as if people share tickets.

How do the 2500 fans arrive at the ground safely keeping a safe distance from those outside their household? Queues would presumably be between 1 and 2 miles in length. Do we give time slots? Do we spread the fans across 3 stands to split the queues?The default would seem to be that only ST holders staying in the City of Edinburgh would go to minimise travel?

They then have to leave so similar questions arise.

Comparisons to cinemas is false given the numbers involved.

There are many areas to criticise the SG on but not letting fans in across level 2, 3 & 4 areas isn’t one as far as I am concerned.

Doncaster is just a blether.

The bleating from the chairman who wanted us to play at half seven on a Saturday night is sabre rattling. If they were serious they would be looking at a plan for next season and getting ready for ST renewals, or maybe that is all he is doing.


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Have there been any queues a couple of miles long at Anfield, The Emirates etc over the last week?

Personally don’t think it would be particularly difficult to get a couple of thousand in and out safely. I agree it’s not like going to the cinema but that works both ways. Everybody doesn’t enter through a single door like when you turn up at the cinema. It not an indoor, enclosed space either.

Cormack should keep pushing and it’s time that more, in a similar position, we’re doing the same.

[hibbysam]

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I have asked this question before.

2500 fans inside Easter Road with physical distancing is doable. We can no doubt put arrows on the floors to move people around and let people get to the toilet. Most businesses will have done similar. We have barcode entry for season tickets but presumably wouldn’t use the turnstiles as they are another touch point - sure that there’s a way around this without needing a steward to check every ticket.

Does anybody know if STs were enough for track and trace in the test events? Was additional ID used? Not as if people share tickets.

How do the 2500 fans arrive at the ground safely keeping a safe distance from those outside their household? Queues would presumably be between 1 and 2 miles in length. Do we give time slots? Do we spread the fans across 3 stands to split the queues?The default would seem to be that only ST holders staying in the City of Edinburgh would go to minimise travel?

They then have to leave so similar questions arise.

Comparisons to cinemas is false given the numbers involved.

There are many areas to criticise the SG on but not letting fans in across level 2, 3 & 4 areas isn’t one as far as I am concerned.

Doncaster is just a blether.

The bleating from the chairman who wanted us to play at half seven on a Saturday night is sabre rattling. If they were serious they would be looking at a plan for next season and getting ready for ST renewals, or maybe that is all he is doing.


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That’s what the clubs are for, they’re not just expecting the government to let them do as they please. Every club will have a plan in place already. Why would queues be miles long? There is still multiple entry places in every stand. Remembering that risk is only increased if the 2m distance is violated for 15 minutes or more, someone going to the toilet isn’t going to be at some greater risk. I’m not comparing to cinemas, I’m telling you that fans sitting in an outdoor stadium setting is at far less risk than someone sitting in a cinema. Numbers are relative as a % to the capacity. Dont people need the toilet at cinema?

ST’s are non transferable, once scanned the club knows fans are present, stewards will stand with a scanner on doors and allow fans entry. I’d imagine every single club in the country will have procedures set out already. No one is asking for huge numbers yet, but we need to start somewhere and gradually increase.

[Radium]

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Have there been any queues a couple of miles long at Anfield, The Emirates etc over the last week?

Personally don’t think it would be particularly difficult to get a couple of thousand in and out safely. I agree it’s not like going to the cinema but that works both ways. Everybody doesn’t enter through a single door like when you turn up at the cinema. It not an indoor, enclosed space either.

Cormack should keep pushing and it’s time that more, in a similar position, we’re doing the same.

I don’t know the layout of Anfield so can’t answer. Do you think we can just forget the 2 metre rule?

By contrast there have been no queues outside St James Park


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[Glory Lurker]

How much does it cost per supporter to safely manage admission, assuming a permitted crowd of 2000?

[Radium]

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That’s what the clubs are for, they’re not just expecting the government to let them do as they please. Every club will have a plan in place already. Why would queues be miles long? There is still multiple entry places in every stand. Remembering that risk is only increased if the 2m distance is violated for 15 minutes or more, someone going to the toilet isn’t going to be at some greater risk. I’m not comparing to cinemas, I’m telling you that fans sitting in an outdoor stadium setting is at far less risk than someone sitting in a cinema. Numbers are relative as a % to the capacity. Dont people need the toilet at cinema?

ST’s are non transferable, once scanned the club knows fans are present, stewards will stand with a scanner on doors and allow fans entry. I’d imagine every single club in the country will have procedures set out already. No one is asking for huge numbers yet, but we need to start somewhere and gradually increase.

2500 fans queuing up 2 metres apart gives you a 5 km (about 3 mile) queue. I was assuming that many people will go to the game with someone else in their household group so dropped the length.

Within 2 metres for 15 minutes is a contact and has a risk. Outdoors will help mitigate some but I am no expert on the impact of different wind/ rain/ snow/ temperature conditions on transfer. If you don’t have 2m, 1m or less is a contact. Contact doesn’t mean transmission but could get you two weeks in the back bedroom.

300-500 in the upper tier of the FF feels doable with the space behind the East used for much of the queue. That would be the numbers we could look at level 1.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

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that doesn’t mean that he is engaging with football..........being on Scottish radio biggest football programme is akin to be on SNP radio.....

ffs there are people wandering our streets without their carers

[B.H.F.C]

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I don’t know the layout of Anfield so can’t answer. Do you think we can just forget the 2 metre rule?

By contrast there have been no queues outside St James Park


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Who’s suggesting we forget the 2m rule? I’m not sure what gives you the idea we’d need to really?

And I think you probably know that there hasn’t been queues a couple of miles long to get in to any grounds over the last week as well.

[B.H.F.C]

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2500 fans queuing up 2 metres apart gives you a 5 km (about 3 mile) queue. I was assuming that many people will go to the game with someone else in their household group so dropped the length.

Within 2 metres for 15 minutes is a contact and has a risk. Outdoors will help mitigate some but I am no expert on the impact of different wind/ rain/ snow/ temperature conditions on transfer. If you don’t have 2m, 1m or less is a contact. Contact doesn’t mean transmission but could get you two weeks in the back bedroom.

300-500 in the upper tier of the FF feels doable with the space behind the East used for much of the queue. That would be the numbers we could look at level 1.


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Is everyone turning up at the same time and standing in the same queue to go in the same turnstile?

[hibbyfraelibby]

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How much does it cost per supporter to safely manage admission, assuming a permitted crowd of 2000?

probably a lot more than any income that would be generated.

If you are not charging new money to let people in, given it would be STs attending, then having fans in would be commercial suicide.

Its going to have to be all or none or you'll just be p!$$ing your dwindling cash down the drain even quicker than BCD

[hibbysam]

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2500 fans queuing up 2 metres apart gives you a 5 km (about 3 mile) queue. I was assuming that many people will go to the game with someone else in their household group so dropped the length.

Within 2 metres for 15 minutes is a contact and has a risk. Outdoors will help mitigate some but I am no expert on the impact of different wind/ rain/ snow/ temperature conditions on transfer. If you don’t have 2m, 1m or less is a contact. Contact doesn’t mean transmission but could get you two weeks in the back bedroom.

300-500 in the upper tier of the FF feels doable with the space behind the East used for much of the queue. That would be the numbers we could look at level 1.


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We have the east stand, the famous five stand, and the west stand upper. Why would everyone be in one queue, even if it was one stand then we still have multiple turnstiles. Nobody would be spending 15 minutes within 2m, or even 1m of anyone else. Queues from Easter Road to Portobello to get into the football 😂

[B.H.F.C]

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probably a lot more than any income that would be generated.

If you are not charging new money to let people in, given it would be STs attending, then having fans in would be commercial suicide.

Its going to have to be all or none or you'll just be p!$$ing your dwindling cash down the drain even quicker than BCD

Would it really be commercial suicide to give people (if possible) something that they’ve paid for?

Totally hypothetical, but if it gets to the point where a crowd was allowed in, do you think Hibs should decline to do so until such times as they can get anyone over and above season ticket holders in?

[Glory Lurker]

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Would it really be commercial suicide to give people (if possible) something that they’ve paid for?

Totally hypothetical, but if it gets to the point where a crowd was allowed in, do you think Hibs should decline to do so until such times as they can get anyone over and above season ticket holders in?

We have 10k ST holders. There is no chance in the short term of getting 10K. Even assuming we were allowed 2K in, how much would that cost?

[hibbysam]

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Would it really be commercial suicide to give people (if possible) something that they’ve paid for?

Totally hypothetical, but if it gets to the point where a crowd was allowed in, do you think Hibs should decline to do so until such times as they can get anyone over and above season ticket holders in?

From a club point of view they have to do all the can to get people in, I’m fairly comfortable if I never got in, resigned to watching this season in the house and would rather the club never lost money. If that decision happened though and the club were letting people in and I was chosen, I’d go. I just really want some common sense about it all. Non league clubs should have majority, if not all, regular punters there. Lower league clubs should be able to get a certain amount in each week, likewise those in the top flight, with closure of the very worst areas in the country. Risk assessments will have been completed and procedures and protocols in place, it’s time the government branched out and made an effort.

They’re handing out grants to clubs now, when in reality letting fans in would stop them having to spend this money, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, seems a massive waste of tax payers funds.

[B.H.F.C]

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We have 10k ST holders. There is no chance in the short term of getting 10K. Even assuming we were allowed 2K in, how much would that cost?

If you’re allowed 2k in, and decide against it because there is a cost involved, how do you then persuade folk to buy a season ticket in March? Folk probably aren’t going to be queuing up to renew as it is. As and when the club can get folk in, whatever the number, they need to do it. Never mind their costs, there are thousands of folk hundreds of pounds down.

[Glory Lurker]

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If you’re allowed 2k in, and decide against it because there is a cost involved, how do you then persuade folk to buy a season ticket in March? Folk probably aren’t going to be queuing up to renew as it is. As and when the club can get folk in, whatever the number, they need to do it. Never mind their costs, there are thousands of folk hundreds of pounds down.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but what would it cost? Bearing in mind 2K is a pipedream just now.

[B.H.F.C]

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I don't necessarily disagree with that, but what would it cost? Bearing in mind 2K is a pipedream just now.

Don’t know what it would cost. I don’t think you’d be talking amounts that are going to cripple the club though. And they’d also not have any choice but to take on the cost anyway.

[davhibby]

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Because for big cities to get into tier 1 is ver near impossible. They’d be doing their own fans a massive disservice by saying ‘we’re happy to wait until we get into tier 1 to get fans in’. Aberdeen have put the plan in place in regards their stadium. That’s the main plan and the government aren’t interested.

Aberdeen just going out on their own and relentlessly suggesting things that are quite obviously going to get knocked back isn’t exactly getting them anywhere either. If the SFA and the clubs got a proper planned out suggestion in place that covered the levels that are allowed fans now and that was to go well then they’d be in a much better position to push for fans at level 2. As it is we’re what 2 months? since the level system was put in place and the SFA haven’t done anything to actually get a structure for better attendance in the levels where fans are allowed in.

[hibbysam]

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Aberdeen just going out on their own and relentlessly suggesting things that are quite obviously going to get knocked back isn’t exactly getting them anywhere either. If the SFA and the clubs got a proper planned out suggestion in place that covered the levels that are allowed fans now and that was to go well then they’d be in a much better position to push for fans at level 2. As it is we’re what 2 months? since the level system was put in place and the SFA haven’t done anything to actually get a structure for better attendance in the levels where fans are allowed in.

I’m not sure I follow, so you want Aberdeen to forget about themselves, and instead work on something that would benefit other clubs? As it stands the tier 1 clubs don’t need that many more fans into the ground, most of them only get a few hundred in anyway on a regular basis. The conversation has to be around getting fans into tier 2 as that’s where majority of clubs fall. The only plan that should be needed is a full risk assessment and plan for the stadium, majority of clubs will have that in place already and be presenting that to the SPFL/SFA and in turn taking that to the government.

We seem to be very good at blaming the clubs, who have, in the main, followed protocols and rules constantly, yet it’s the government who won’t enter dialogue.

[Sir David Gray]

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I’m not sure I follow, so you want Aberdeen to forget about themselves, and instead work on something that would benefit other clubs? As it stands the tier 1 clubs don’t need that many more fans into the ground, most of them only get a few hundred in anyway on a regular basis. The conversation has to be around getting fans into tier 2 as that’s where majority of clubs fall. The only plan that should be needed is a full risk assessment and plan for the stadium, majority of clubs will have that in place already and be presenting that to the SPFL/SFA and in turn taking that to the government.

We seem to be very good at blaming the clubs, who have, in the main, followed protocols and rules constantly, yet it’s the government who won’t enter dialogue.

I agree with you that we should be working towards a solution which allows more fans to attend but most clubs don't actually fall within level 2, most fall within level 3.

Of the 42 clubs in the SPFL, over 60% of them are situated within level 3 areas as of 6pm tonight.

Also out of the 6 clubs which will be in level 1 from tonight, it's split pretty evenly as to how much they will be affected by only being allowed to have 300 fans.

Ross County's average attendance was just over 4,000, Inverness had just over 2,000 and Queen of the South had about 1,400.

It's really only Elgin (636), Stranraer (359) and Annan (347) that won't really be impacted too much.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I agree with you that we should be working towards a solution which allows more fans to attend but most clubs don't actually fall within level 2, most fall within level 3.

Of the 42 clubs in the SPFL, over 60% of them are situated within level 3 areas as of 6pm tonight.

Also out of the 6 clubs which will be in level 1 from tonight, it's split pretty evenly as to how much they will be affected by only being allowed to have 300 fans.

Ross County's average attendance was just over 4,000, Inverness had just over 2,000 and Queen of the South had about 1,400.

It's really only Elgin (636), Stranraer (359) and Annan (347) that won't really be impacted too much.

👍

People are forgetting that the guidelines for each level were published at the end of October to come into effect on 2nd November. In the guidelines (Strategic Framework) for stadia and events it is only in level 0 and 1 that any spectators are allowed in restricted numbers. To think that Aberdeen, in level 2, should have spectators in before they come down to level 1 is just pie in the sky.

Instead of trying to loosen the restrictions they should be encouraging everyone to help bring the city down to level 1.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Would it really be commercial suicide to give people (if possible) something that they’ve paid for?

Totally hypothetical, but if it gets to the point where a crowd was allowed in, do you think Hibs should decline to do so until such times as they can get anyone over and above season ticket holders in?

Its about cash flow. If you run out of readies letting people in you go bust so no product to sell next year.

The SPFL clubs are getting access to the business loans side of the cash injection for spectator sport, not the grants. Y

Teetering on the brink with no fans may ve preferable tgan pushed over the cliff edge with them.

[hibbysam]

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I agree with you that we should be working towards a solution which allows more fans to attend but most clubs don't actually fall within level 2, most fall within level 3.

Of the 42 clubs in the SPFL, over 60% of them are situated within level 3 areas as of 6pm tonight.

Also out of the 6 clubs which will be in level 1 from tonight, it's split pretty evenly as to how much they will be affected by only being allowed to have 300 fans.

Ross County's average attendance was just over 4,000, Inverness had just over 2,000 and Queen of the South had about 1,400.

It's really only Elgin (636), Stranraer (359) and Annan (347) that won't really be impacted too much.

It’s far more likely, and relevant in line with the restrictions to have it in tier 2 though. Your point about the 60% is fair, however if we then expect those clubs to have to get up to tier 1 it’s going to be a very long time until that happens. Big cities are highly unlikely to be moved down the tiers anytime soon.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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We have 10k ST holders. There is no chance in the short term of getting 10K. Even assuming we were allowed 2K in, how much would that cost?

Just supposing we did it would probably require lots of stewards. Fag packet alert...

200 Stewards
£10 per hour (based on ***** pay rates)
5 hours attandance
G4S Gross margin 40%
VAT 20%

In effect close to £17k per game without a penny of extra revenue. Not sustainable when your revenues are already 50% down unless you take up the government loan repayable over 10 years.

[ancient hibee]

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Just supposing we did it would probably require lots of stewards. Fag packet alert...

200 Stewards
£10 per hour (based on ***** pay rates)
5 hours attandance
G4S Gross margin 40%
VAT 20%

In effect close to £17k per game without a penny of extra revenue. Not sustainable when your revenues are already 50% down unless you take up the government loan repayable over 10 years.

And that’s without factoring in the cost of a deep clean of the stadium .