What's the chances of fans going back in September?

[Keith_M]

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I'd be stunned if every club in Scotland survives this.

Goodbye Airdrie!

[Sir David Gray]

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The government and banks have to, in the same way it has to support all businesses that are unable to trade because of the restrictions put in place.

This isn’t intended to be a political point, but if the government, whether that’s the UK or Scottish government can’t back businesses during this time then they shouldn’t impose the measures they have. If they can’t afford to do it then they need to allow the clubs and companies outside of football to try and trade as normally as possible, failure to do so will be catastrophic every industry and people self employed across the country.

Sorry I meant support as in who's going to turn up at 3pm on a Saturday and watch a team that's the result of a merger between East Fife and Cowdenbeath (for example)?

The poster I quoted suggested it may be an opportunity for Scotland to reduce its number of professional clubs but although the crowds following clubs like East Fife and Cowdenbeath are very low in number, to those people who do follow clubs like that, it means everything to them and the majority of them wouldn't be interested in following a new club that's the product of a merger with a rival club.

It's fine for us as fans of one of the biggest clubs in Scotland to suggest that but I wouldn't support such a move.

From a financial support point of view, I agree with you by the way.

[bigwheel]

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Sorry I meant support as in who's going to turn up at 3pm on a Saturday and watch a team that's the result of a merger between East Fife and Cowdenbeath (for example)?

The poster I quoted suggested it may be an opportunity for Scotland to reduce its number of professional clubs but although the crowds following clubs like East Fife and Cowdenbeath are very low in number, to those people who do follow clubs like that, it means everything to them and the majority of them wouldn't be interested in following a new club that's the product of a merger with a rival club.

It's fine for us as fans of one of the biggest clubs in Scotland to suggest that but I wouldn't support such a move.

From a financial support point of view, I agree with you by the way.

I agree....It’s disrespectful imo to suggest the merging of smaller teams..how would we feel if an old firm fan was saying it about us ?

Clubs need to find their own sustainable level..and that may be accelerated by what’s going on, but these clubs, big or small, are important parts of their community for generations. The last thing we want is a scottish MK Dons franchise ..

Let’s hope they find a way to survive , even if it means part time or amateur status ...

[G15 Hibs]

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. The last thing we want is a scottish MK Dons franchise ..

Livingston!

[bigwheel]

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Livingston!

Good example ...

They’ve done fairly well tbf. I’m sure there are still Meadowbank fans who wouldn’t watch them ...

[lucky]

Football is going have to cut its cloth accordingly. Most clubs will suspend youth football and those who have not made redundancies will start the process. Players wages will also come into focus, Premiership players earn decent money compared to most, this will also be revisited. The salary of £100k a year may no longer available and they’ll lose out completely if lots of clubs go bust. Full time championship clubs may have to consider going part time, Hearts even with the backing of Anderson will be hit hard by this. No one wants a pay cut but the choice of no job with no income versus a pay cut I know which I’d choose. Highly paid non playing staff will also have to take a hit, LD does a great job at Hibs and RG will have decide if we can afford her during this period. We all knew football needs fans but maybe clubs might start listening to fans more in the future.

I’d be surprised if football was high up the priority list for government financial support. But remember this has all been brought about by the refusal of mostly young men refusing to follow the rules around social distancing and wearing a mask. So next time your on a train, bus, shop or pub it’s those in groups of more than two households not wearing face coverings and your neighbours having house parties that have prolonged the absence of fans at games.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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I’d be surprised if football was high up the priority list for government financial support. But remember this has all been brought about by the refusal of mostly young men refusing to follow the rules around social distancing and wearing a mask. So next time your on a train, bus, shop or pub it’s those in groups of more than two households not wearing face coverings and your neighbours having house parties that have prolonged the absence of fans at games.

Got to take issue with your statement re young men. Jason Leitch alluded to stats at the Monday briefing from Test and Protect particularly in relation the recent rises that younger women were the predominant drivers of cases rising. Think the stat was 60:40 and mainly indoor transmission.

[Lago]

Unfortunately at the end of this situation, whenever that is, I think the face of Scottish football in particular & probably the lower English leagues will have change dramatically. Neither Westminster or Holyrood care overly much about football so money coming from them is a long shot. Undoubtedly the top two leagues in England will survive and to a lesser degree the top Scottish league, although part time football maybe introduced at a number of clubs. Sad days.

[CockneyRebel]

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Got to take issue with your statement re young men. Jason Leitch alluded to stats at the Monday briefing from Test and Protect particularly in relation the recent rises that younger women were the predominant drivers of cases rising. Think the stat was 60:40 and mainly indoor transmission.

I know what I see in Edinburgh, with my own eyes, every single day - young folk (16 to 35 years old - ish) in pairs, or groups, in close contact with each other and giving no social distance between themselves or passers by. They are the predominant age group not wearing masks/face covering in the shops or on buses. In short not giving a Barry White. This is selfish and ignorant and giving the single digit to all of those that take this bast-rd virus seriously. I feel that it is these people that are preventing progress more than the virus itself.

[FilipinoHibs]

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Unfortunately at the bottom of this situation, whenever that is, I think the face of Scottish football in particular & probably the lower English leagues will have change dramatically. Neither Westminster or Holyrood care overly much about football so money coming from them is a long shot. Undoubtedly the top two leagues in England will survive and to a lesser degree the top Scottish league, although part time football maybe introduced at a number of clubs. Sad days.

The big problem is that it requires the government to borrow to support the economy during this pandemic. The impact is likely to last for two more years. The government has been borrowing since 2008 to cope with the impact of the financial recession. Although interest rates are low now the debt will have to be rolled over as we are unlikely to grow the economy enough to repay it. When the time comes to roll interest rates will be higher and we will end up burdening future generations with this debt. Also impacting the economy. As people have said football not a priority for the government when they look at what bits of the economy they want to save. Merging two clubs both with no income does not solve anything. I said months ago that the likely scenario is that the lower leagues will be moth balled for a couple of seasons with all the job losses that implies. The future is bleak outside the top league.

[B.H.F.C]

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I know what I see in Edinburgh, with my own eyes, every single day - young folk (16 to 35 years old - ish) in pairs, or groups, in close contact with each other and giving no social distance between themselves or passers by. They are the predominant age group not wearing masks/face covering in the shops or on buses. In short not giving a Barry White. This is selfish and ignorant and giving the single digit to all of those that take this bast-rd virus seriously. I feel that it is these people that are preventing progress more than the virus itself.

What you happen to see isn’t necessarily representative of the bigger picture. For instance, I was just in the chemist and three people were in. One (me) was wearing a mask. The other two, easily in their 50s, weren’t. That isn’t necessarily representative of the bigger picture either but I think young people are being made an easy target here. The truth will be somewhere in between IMO.

It’s like all the ‘packed’ pubs. Easy target but I’ve yet to visit one that has actually been packed. Any I’ve been in have respected and enforced the rules far more than places like supermarkets.

[Torto7]

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Football is going have to cut its cloth accordingly. Most clubs will suspend youth football and those who have not made redundancies will start the process. Players wages will also come into focus, Premiership players earn decent money compared to most, this will also be revisited. The salary of £100k a year may no longer available and they’ll lose out completely if lots of clubs go bust. Full time championship clubs may have to consider going part time, Hearts even with the backing of Anderson will be hit hard by this. No one wants a pay cut but the choice of no job with no income versus a pay cut I know which I’d choose. Highly paid non playing staff will also have to take a hit, LD does a great job at Hibs and RG will have decide if we can afford her during this period. We all knew football needs fans but maybe clubs might start listening to fans more in the future.

I’d be surprised if football was high up the priority list for government financial support. But remember this has all been brought about by the refusal of mostly young men refusing to follow the rules around social distancing and wearing a mask. So next time your on a train, bus, shop or pub it’s those in groups of more than two households not wearing face coverings and your neighbours having house parties that have prolonged the absence of fans at games.

Absolute weapons who seem to think they know best.

[Keith_M]

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Good example ...

They’ve done fairly well tbf. I’m sure there are still Meadowbank fans who wouldn’t watch them ...

Livi have definitely done well when it comes to being regular members of the top division.

What they have in common with MK Dons is that they've struggled to establish a decent fan base and don't even fill one of their four stands at home games.

[linlithgowhibbie]

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Good example ...

They’ve done fairly well tbf. I’m sure there are still Meadowbank fans who wouldn’t watch them ...

Good example? How often have they gone burst?

[bigwheel]

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Livi have definitely done well when it comes to being regular members of the top division.

What they have in common with MK Dons is that they've struggled to establish a decent fan base and don't even fill one of their four stands at home games.

Yeah indeed..it’s hard to see any franchise team build a real base of support ..they lack the heritage

[bigwheel]

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Good example? How often have they gone burst?

Was talking from a football perspective...

Yeah think they’ve been in admin 2 times (or is it three?). Yes, these “new clubs” in Scotland will always struggle to get a good base of support ...

[SteveHFC]

Scotland fans who had bought tickets for the play off game in a few weeks time are all getting refunds.

[EI255]

This thread should be renamed "What's the chances of football fans returning by the end of the season". That's the reality.

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[Sir David Gray]

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This thread should be renamed "What's the chances of football fans returning by the end of the season". That's the reality.

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Very slim.

[04Sauzee]

JRG statement

CORONAVIRUS – JOINT RESPONSE GROUP
23RD SEPTEMBER 2020

The Joint Response Group has held initial discussions on the implications for Scottish football of yesterday’s announcement that the return of supporters has been postponed and, consequently, that no further fan pilot events will be considered until the national outlook for Covid-19 improves significantly.

Significantly, the Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing, Joe FitzPatrick MSP, has confirmed to us that he has written to the UK Minister for Sport and Civil Society seeking urgent discussions regarding a package of financial recovery for sport, accessible to Scotland.

The Minister also expressed the gratitude of the Scottish Government for the efforts that Scottish football has made in playing its part in the national effort to tackle the pandemic.

The JRG would like to put on record our thanks to all clubs who have played their part by adhering to the strictest measures to combat Covid-19, despite the enormous financial toll it has inflicted on them.

The game in Scotland depends on ticket revenue far more than the vast majority of professional leagues across Europe. We usually see over five million supporters per season attending Scottish league matches - with 43% of all revenue generated via gate receipts. The prospect of that vital income being lost for the majority of the season - far less in its entirety - could be catastrophic for many of our clubs.

We are committed to working with government to avert that crisis.

Rod Petrie, Scottish FA President and chair of the JRG, said: “We understand the challenges and decisions facing the Scottish Government and society as a whole and Scottish football will continue to play its part in helping the country overcome the pandemic.

“It is also incumbent on us to safeguard the futures of our football clubs, whilst at the same time respecting and adhering to public health guidelines. We welcome the correspondence from Scottish Government to the UK Minister for Sport and Civil Society and hope for a positive outcome for the national game and Scottish sport as whole.”

Neil Doncaster, CEO of the SPFL, commented: “We are engaging with the Scottish Government to underline the existential threat to many of our clubs, and to the huge community, economic and sporting benefits they deliver, if this grave situation continues without meaningful public financial support. We therefore welcome the intervention of the Scottish Government in seeking urgent discussions with the UK Government about a package of financial recovery for Scottish sport.”

[ronaldo7]

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I'm surprised to see the idea of clubs merging for the good of the game being suggested on a Hibs forum of all places. Its like 1990 never happened.

What happens if the four Angus clubs (as that's the example most often given) were to merge and play their games at, say, Gayfield? Would Montrose, Forfar and Brechin fans all travel every second Saturday to watch Angus United? Its not their team, so why should they? Would even Arbroath fans bother? Just because these teams have fewer supporters than Hibs doesn't mean that those supporters don't feel just as strongly about their club as we do about ours. When Third Lanark went out of business most of their fans drifted out of going to football rather than go and support someone else that wasn't their team. So you'd end up with a Frankenstein club that no-one's all that bothered about, playing in front of a few fans, with hundreds of paying customers lost to the game.

Some might say that's better than going out of business completely. However I know that if Hibs, Hearts and Edinburgh City were to merge into an Edinburgh United I wouldn't feel any attachment to the new team. It would feel to me that Hibs were gone and would have been as well going out of business.

The 42 senior clubs thing is a different matter and would be better solved through league reconstruction, especially now with a pyramid of sorts coming in (or should have, in a non-Covid world) than getting rid of clubs.

Spot on mate. Lest we forget the FTB

[Robbo6-2]

Meanwhile in England


English Football League chairman Rick Parry says it is "a little bizarre" people are allowed in pubs but cannot attend football matches.

Crowds were due to return to sports events in limited numbers next month, but Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Tuesday that this*will not go ahead.

The decision came after seven EFL clubs piloted small crowds last Saturday.

"We believe we've created models of a really safe environment where people could be entertained safely," he said.

Speaking to BBC Sport, Parry added: "It just seems a little bizarre that you can still go into pubs and clubs and circulate, albeit you have to come out at 10 o'clock.

"It is a tad ironic and disappointing as we had seven extremely successful pilots at the weekend."

[04Sauzee]

Leeann Dempster "will lead a Premiership summit" in which Scottish football attempts to plot its way out of the COVID-19 crisis.

According to the Scottish Sun a meeting will take place next week involving top flight clubs. On the agenda will the financial problems a short to medium term future with no fans in grounds could cause. Hibs chief Dempster will "spearhead" the meeting.


It is reported that fans could remain locked out of grounds across Scotland until the new year at the earliest. Test events have also been shelved until further notice.

The SFA and SPFL Scottish Football Joint Response Group is calling on a financial package to be provided in order to help the game get through the crisis.


They held initial discussions on the implications for Scottish football of yesterday’s announcement that the return of supporters has been postponed and, consequently, that no further fan pilot events will be considered until the national outlook for COVID-19 improves significantly.

Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing, Joe FitzPatrick MSP, has written to the UK Minister for Sport and Civil Society seeking urgent discussions regarding a package of financial recovery for sport, accessible to Scotland.

[CapitalGreen]

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Leeann Dempster "will lead a Premiership summit" in which Scottish football attempts to plot its way out of the COVID-19 crisis.

According to the Scottish Sun a meeting will take place next week involving top flight clubs. On the agenda will the financial problems a short to medium term future with no fans in grounds could cause. Hibs chief Dempster will "spearhead" the meeting.


It is reported that fans could remain locked out of grounds across Scotland until the new year at the earliest. Test events have also been shelved until further notice.

The SFA and SPFL Scottish Football Joint Response Group is calling on a financial package to be provided in order to help the game get through the crisis.


They held initial discussions on the implications for Scottish football of yesterday’s announcement that the return of supporters has been postponed and, consequently, that no further fan pilot events will be considered until the national outlook for COVID-19 improves significantly.

Minister for Public Health, Sport and Wellbeing, Joe FitzPatrick MSP, has written to the UK Minister for Sport and Civil Society seeking urgent discussions regarding a package of financial recovery for sport, accessible to Scotland.

It’s great to have a Chief Exec who collaborates with the sports governing bodies for the greater good of the whole game rather than one who constantly fights against them in the name of self interest.

[kaimendhibs]

It's scary stuff. Lives matter more than football but doesn't mean I don't miss being at games

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[bingo70]

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It's scary stuff. Lives matter more than football but doesn't mean I don't miss being at games

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Of course lives matter more than football but we really need to start living again and a big part of that is getting back to what we did before and not hiding away forever.

I’m not one of these people that refuse to wear a mask or think it’s all a conspiracy but we can’t go on like this, from a mental health point of view, to people’s livelihoods and to the national economy, we need to learn to live with this virus and mitigate the risks as much as possible, without hiding indoors all the time.

Get football stadiums open (amongst other things) but with restrictions, hand sanitiser stations, compulsory mask wearing, no away fans and a better spread of home fans across the whole ground, don’t use turnstiles and have a steward with a scanner scanning tickets going in either the normal exit or any other possible access point.

What’s the longer term plan here? Stay indoors until it passes? What if there’s never a vaccine found? I was all for the lockdown as it gave us time to organise things but it’s not practical for it to continue, even like this IMO.

[Phil MaGlass]

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Of course lives matter more than football but we really need to start living again and a big part of that is getting back to what we did before and not hiding away forever.

I’m not one of these people that refuse to wear a mask or think it’s all a conspiracy but we can’t go on like this, from a mental health point of view, to people’s livelihoods and to the national economy, we need to learn to live with this virus and mitigate the risks as much as possible, without hiding indoors all the time.

Get football stadiums open (amongst other things) but with restrictions, hand sanitiser stations, compulsory mask wearing, no away fans and a better spread of home fans across the whole ground, don’t use turnstiles and have a steward with a scanner scanning tickets going in either the normal exit or any other possible access point.

What’s the longer term plan here? Stay indoors until it passes? What if there’s never a vaccine found? I was all for the lockdown as it gave us time to organise things but it’s not practical for it to continue, even like this IMO.

They opened football stadiums in Holland for small amount of fans, and social distancing and rules were not properly followed or not followed at all, the prime minister was livid, he will probably stop fans going to games altogether.
The Dutch drive me f,n nuts, seem to think rules are not for them anywhere or any time, they have a massive problem with the virus spreading and they dont wear masks in shops etc,, they hold large parties, at work they dont distance themselves, its mental.
I agree, the way we are going just now is not sustainable, we need to open things up, but, I think folk not following hygiene and wearing face masks in public should be hammered, clubs and bars not following social distancing rules should be closed and publicans etc,, threatened with jail.

[James Stephen]

I have seen it suggested elsewhere, that IF the government (Scottish or UK) does step-in, they should effectively nationalise them (or a big chunk of them) and then either sell back to local authorities and/or to fans.

I think its an interesting idea, a chance for the government to radically reshape the ownership of football. And it avoid the thorny issue of government using tax payers money to fund badly run, or even worse dodgy football clubs and their millionaire owners, which would be very unpalatable. Why for example should Ron Gordon or Anne Budge receive public money for them to continue to own an asset that they can sell for millions later on?

Unfortunately, I don't know how practical this is, and also I don't know that our current government would care about helping out already very rich people.

[ancient hibee]

This seems a little confusing.Is it being suggested that governments use tax payers money to nationalise clubs and then continue to pour money into them to run them? Or even worse somehow get local authorities to run them when they can’t even afford to repair potholes?Cheaper to give them a bale out.

[kaimendhibs]

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Of course lives matter more than football but we really need to start living again and a big part of that is getting back to what we did before and not hiding away forever.

I’m not one of these people that refuse to wear a mask or think it’s all a conspiracy but we can’t go on like this, from a mental health point of view, to people’s livelihoods and to the national economy, we need to learn to live with this virus and mitigate the risks as much as possible, without hiding indoors all the time.

Get football stadiums open (amongst other things) but with restrictions, hand sanitiser stations, compulsory mask wearing, no away fans and a better spread of home fans across the whole ground, don’t use turnstiles and have a steward with a scanner scanning tickets going in either the normal exit or any other possible access point.

What’s the longer term plan here? Stay indoors until it passes? What if there’s never a vaccine found? I was all for the lockdown as it gave us time to organise things but it’s not practical for it to continue, even like this IMO.

Mate, I'm not arguing with you. The thing is tho that once things opened up the virus started spreading again and numbers are going through the roof.
I wish I had the answers and no one misses going to games more than me.

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