The Dreaded Coeficient Thread

[CMurdoch]

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Does this change anything for Hibs coming 3rd / 4th (with the possibility of a non top team wining Scottish cup).

No, although the chance of anyone outside of The Rangers winning the Scottish Cup is looking slim.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Tonights top top coefficient fact

If The Rangers get at least a draw next week Scotlands top league will start next season ahead of the mighty Russia in the UEFA coefficient.

They will already be ahead of Belgium and Austria.

So Scotland looking at starting next season in 8th place!!!!

that would be great, hopefully our club get to take any advantage from that lofty position

[CMurdoch]

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that would be great, hopefully our club get to take any advantage from that lofty position

Our league being rated the 8th best in Europe by UEFA and our national team playing in the Euro's has got to be good for attracting good players to play in Scotland and as 3rd best team in that country some might come to Hibs. Less than three years ago our league was ranked 26th which was an embarrassment.

[Magpie]

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No, although the chance of anyone outside of The Rangers winning the Scottish Cup is looking slim.

Tbh I thought the same of the league cup and we saw how that panned out.

[Magpie]

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Tonights top top coefficient fact

If The Rangers get at least a draw next week Scotlands top league will start next season ahead of the mighty Russia in the UEFA coefficient.

They will already be ahead of Belgium and Austria.

So Scotland looking at starting next season in 8th place!!!!

Hopefully a 2-2 draw then.

[DH1875]

Problem is that its starting to look like whoever wins the league next season will be automatically into the champions league group stage the following season. Which ever of them it is they'll get millions and just pull even further ahead than the rest of us.

[Magpie]

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Problem is that its starting to look like whoever wins the league next season will be automatically into the champions league group stage the following season. Which ever of them it is they'll get millions and just pull even further ahead than the rest of us.

The question needs to be asked, why not Hibs?

[neil7908]

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The question needs to be asked, why not Hibs?

Because 2 clubs in the league have x10 the budget we do. Let's focus on achieving 3rd this year and take it from there.

[MWHIBBIES]

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The question needs to be asked, why not Hibs?

Don't think that needed to be asked honestly, the answer is obvious and always has been.

[Magpie]

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Don't think that needed to be asked honestly, the answer is obvious and always has been.

It was more tongue in cheek, it would be a miracle if we managed to actually win it.

[Since90+2]

Would folk have previously said Leicester were more or less likely to win the English Premier League than Hibs the Scottish before they won it?

You could argue that was more unlikely given there are 4 or 5 enormous football clubs in England.

[Gloucester Hibs]

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Would folk have previously said Leicester were more or less likely to win the English Premier League than Hibs the Scottish before they won it?

You could argue that was more unlikely given there are 4 or 5 enormous football clubs in England.

True but I think the TV money in England is a bit of a leveller. Would reckon the wage differential between Leicester and the 'Big 6' teams the season they won it would not be as big as Hibs compared to the Old Firm this season. Could be wrong. Then you have guys like Vardy knocking back moves to Arsenal.

[Since90+2]

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True but I think the TV money in England is a bit of a leveller. Would reckon the wage differential between Leicester and the 'Big 6' teams the season they won it would not be as big as Hibs compared to the Old Firm this season. Could be wrong. Then you have guys like Vardy knocking back moves to Arsenal.

I think the percentage of wage budget will be closer in England but it's all relative as teams like Manchester City and Chelsea are operating on a completely different level to Leicester and signing literally some of the best players in the world.

You then have to take into consideration that in Scotland you only need 2 teams to have a weak season to be in with a shout whereas in England it's 4 or 5.

If someone had asked me prior to Leicester winning I'd have probably said Hibs would be more likely to win the Scottish League than Leicester winning the Premier League.

[danhibees1875]

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True but I think the TV money in England is a bit of a leveller. Would reckon the wage differential between Leicester and the 'Big 6' teams the season they won it would not be as big as Hibs compared to the Old Firm this season. Could be wrong. Then you have guys like Vardy knocking back moves to Arsenal.

I've found a table which suggests the 2 Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal all paid over 4 times as much in wages as Leicester the season they won the league (c.£200M v £48M). Leicester also had to compete with several other teams who paid a fair chunk more than them - Liverpool, spurs, Everton, West ham...Stoke and Sunderland (£71M!).

A similar article for Scottish clubs suggest that Celtic currently pay about 7.5 times more than Hibs. Rangers are 5.4. However we are then much close to Aberdeen and Hearts.

I think it's very hard to judge which is harder but I'd be tempted to say Hibs - the gap between the top 2 is more significant and the league set up requires playing them 4 times rather than 2. That being said the odds don't reflect that - I don't imagine we are 5000/1 to win the league like Leicester were.

[Speedy]

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I've found a table which suggests the 2 Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal all paid over 4 times as much in wages as Leicester the season they won the league (c.£200M v £48M). Leicester also had to compete with several other teams who paid a fair chunk more than them - Liverpool, spurs, Everton, West ham...Stoke and Sunderland (£71M!).

A similar article for Scottish clubs suggest that Celtic currently pay about 7.5 times more than Hibs. Rangers are 5.4. However we are then much close to Aberdeen and Hearts.

I think it's very hard to judge which is harder but I'd be tempted to say Hibs - the gap between the top 2 is more significant and the league set up requires playing them 4 times rather than 2. That being said the odds don't reflect that - I don't imagine we are 5000/1 to win the league like Leicester were.

Agreed - in BAU terms, I'd say it would be harder for Hibs. Even though Leicester were paying much less than the top clubs in England, they still had a budget to source elite players from all over the world. We're competing against hundreds of clubs for the level of player we're after.


That said, the odds perhaps were right because we only have 2 clubs to beat so only need 2 of them to go bust for us to have a chance, or a more extreme way to look at it is if we suddenly had a mad hibby billionaire investor then they could easily blow the other 2 out the water if they chucked enough money at it.

Since Leicester won it though, I'd say the TV money is even more of a leveler down there.

[SJNB Hibby]

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Our league being rated the 8th best in Europe by UEFA and our national team playing in the Euro's has got to be good for attracting good players to play in Scotland and as 3rd best team in that country some might come to Hibs. Less than three years ago our league was ranked 26th which was an embarrassment.

If Rangers win next week, and Ajax lose, Scotland would move, temporarily, ahead of Holland, with both countries having 1 team in the Q-F's

[CMurdoch]

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If Rangers win next week, and Ajax lose, Scotland would move, temporarily, ahead of Holland, with both countries having 1 team in the Q-F's

Where have you been?
Possible as you say but temporary with Ajax all but through to the quarters with an opportunity of getting more points in the next round.
Rangers have to be at their best next week to progress and then need to draw one of the two Spanish teams to have any real chance after that.
My interest is in Scottish football these days but I watched the AS Roma game last night and they would blow Rangers away. Shakhter played well but eventually wilted when Roma turned up the heat.

It will be tough next week for Rangers but they could just about do it after a weeks rest with no games or further injuries.
I thought their players celebrating at the weekend was a mistake psychologically, risking breaking their single minded intensity and concentration and they almost paid for it last night with only McGregors unbelievable save the difference after they started playing for a draw in the last 15 minutes which let the opposition back into the game. Helander had a great game last night as did Aribo who they substituted when they decided to try to shut the game down.

Re the UEFA coefficient, Scotland's natural position is behind Holland and hopefully we can remain in 8th for at least 3 years after coming up from an embarrassing 26th in the same time frame.
Other Scotland factoid, our top league has the 7th highest average attendances in Europe, which was again just behind Holland. Given our population that is wildly impressive.

[MWHIBBIES]

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I've found a table which suggests the 2 Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Arsenal all paid over 4 times as much in wages as Leicester the season they won the league (c.£200M v £48M). Leicester also had to compete with several other teams who paid a fair chunk more than them - Liverpool, spurs, Everton, West ham...Stoke and Sunderland (£71M!).

A similar article for Scottish clubs suggest that Celtic currently pay about 7.5 times more than Hibs. Rangers are 5.4. However we are then much close to Aberdeen and Hearts.

I think it's very hard to judge which is harder but I'd be tempted to say Hibs - the gap between the top 2 is more significant and the league set up requires playing them 4 times rather than 2. That being said the odds don't reflect that - I don't imagine we are 5000/1 to win the league like Leicester were.

Leicester was a real once in a lifetime thing. Whole squad fit all season alone was a miracle. Some might even say a bit fishy...

[Dr What If?]

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A similar article for Scottish clubs suggest that Celtic currently pay about 7.5 times more than Hibs. Rangers are 5.4. However we are then much close to Aberdeen and Hearts.

Interesting numbers those, thanks for sharing. It poses the question of what that is going to look like in the next few years should Ron achieve his goal of doubling our revenue in the next few years (even accounting for the extra expense of getting that revenue in). Are those numbers based on average player salary or total player salaries? If it is total then we might be closer still....Old Firm have massive squads with lads that are no where near the first team on better wages than those playing every week for other clubs.
Making the huge assumption that in most cases salary equates to quality then the gap between starting 11s might not be as huge as a cold look at the numbers are telling us.

[DH1875]

Look how crap Celtic are this year and yet we are still nowhere near them. We are never winning the league yet alone coming 2nd.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Look how crap Celtic are this year and yet we are still nowhere near them. We are never winning the league yet alone coming 2nd.

Thats the spirit

[blackpoolhibs]

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Thats the spirit

He's not wrong though is he?

I have given up thinking we can ever win the league, the odd cup is probably out the question too with the new huns spending big now and celtic matching them.

I'm looking forward these days to a European run, these will be our cup finals now for the foreseeable in my opinion.

[Keith_M]

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He's not wrong though is he?

I have given up thinking we can ever win the league, the odd cup is probably out the question too with the new huns spending big now and celtic matching them.

I'm looking forward these days to a European run, these will be our cup finals now for the foreseeable in my opinion.

Sadly he's not.

It's 36 years since a club other than Rangers or Celtc won the league and it's 69 years since Hibs last won it.

The early 80s (with 4 titles outside Glasgow) was basically just a blip in the complete domination that the uglies have over the league.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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He's not wrong though is he?

I have given up thinking we can ever win the league, the odd cup is probably out the question too with the new huns spending big now and celtic matching them.

I'm looking forward these days to a European run, these will be our cup finals now for the foreseeable in my opinion.

I know, it’s incredibly doubtful that Hibs (or anyone else outside Glasgow for that matter) will challenge for the title in the next few decades or beyond. But you never know. Never is a very long time, and change can happen and occasionally does.

I think it should always be an aspiration for our club to work towards, however unlikely.

[oneone73]

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Sadly he's not.

It's 36 years since a club other than Rangers or Celtc won the league and it's 69 years since Hibs last won it.

The early 80s (with 4 titles outside Glasgow) was basically just a blip in the complete domination that the uglies have over the league.

Another blip in the 60s - Hertz, Dundee, Kilmarnock.

[Hibbyradge]

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Look how crap Celtic are this year and yet we are still nowhere near them. We are never winning the league yet alone coming 2nd.

I think there's a chance of second one year if the planets were all unusually, but perfectly, aligned. First is just not going to happen. Not even for hearts.

[Hibbyradge]

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Another blip in the 60s - Hertz, Dundee, Kilmarnock.

When the clubs agreed to stop sharing gate money, the writing was on the wall.

No-one will ever be able to match the uglies financially and the chances of both of them having a terrible season at the same time is miniscule.

Even if that miracle was to happen, there's no guarantee of Hibs being the team to take advantage do the chance of us ever winning the league in it's current format, ever again must be infinitesimal.

[SJNB Hibby]

[QUOTE=CMurdoch;6493094]Where have you been?
As a "Happy Clapper" this place is depressing after 1 loss, never mind 2!!----but I have actually been working, which included a few days off-shore, with very limited WiFi.
Between you and me, (and the millions watching) I dont get those that put down the whole Coefficient matter----do we criticise Old Firm players helping Scotland reach the finals of competitions? Our chance of getting top 2, never mind the title was lost during our wilderness years, even Aberdeen couldnt do it, and I think one year it was their results against Celtic that doomed them. Our chances of catching Rangers or Celtic arent diminished if one of them wins the Europa League
Euro group stages are our Cup Finals--- I watched the Asteras 2nd leg on a small island off the coast of New Brunswick, and the neighbors must have had to google "Super John McGinn!!!"

Anyway, temporary or not, I'm hoping for a brief period after next Thursday, we are actually ahead of Holland in Club coefficients.

[DH1875]

Is it not teams from the Ukraine that can stop us from getting the champions league place

[SJNB Hibby]

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Is it not teams from the Ukraine that can stop us from getting the champions league place

I think that's for next season. An extra automatic place in the group stages is awarded if the ecl and or Europe league winners have already qualified via their league position
Liverpool winning might be the biggest issue