Do I need a TV licence to watch Hibs TV?

[Andy74]

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I'll refer back to my first post on this thread.



Source - https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-...IaAsrZEALw_wcB

None of those definitions are clear on football through clubs own online channels. All the references are to TV broadcasts and TV programmes, regardless of how you stream them, but there is nothing specific about whether games that aren’t being widely broadcast are counted as TV programmes.

[Sir David Gray]

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None of those definitions are clear on football through clubs own online channels. All the references are to TV broadcasts and TV programmes, regardless of how you stream them, but there is nothing specific about whether games that aren’t being widely broadcast are counted as TV programmes.

"watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service"

Livingston's PPV stream was essentially an online TV service yesterday. Anyone in the UK or Republic of Ireland who paid Livingston £20 yesterday would have been able to watch the game. It was potentially just as widely broadcast as any game shown by Sky or BT.

[Forza Fred]

Remember this quaint TV license thing.

Given the Beeb is the national broadcaster......just like the NHS is the national health provider.....surely it just makes more sense for it be funded Directly out of consolidated revenue, as it is in Oz.

Does away with the need to fund any token, and pretty ineffective
compliance measures.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Remember this quaint TV license thing.

Given the Beeb is the national broadcaster......just like the NHS is the national health provider.....surely it just makes more sense for it be funded Directly out of consolidated revenue, as it is in Oz.

Does away with the need to fund any token, and pretty ineffective
compliance measures.

That’s an interesting proposition. Imo I think there is a benefit in funding via some model Independent public broadcasting service. Otherwise certain cultural, educational materials likely just wouldn’t get made.

Is there a link between reduced attention spans and dumming down with the rise of Sky? Not sure if there’s been a study. Internet’s probably skews things anyway. But not everyone has access and there’s an additional cost of equipment software etc

I do like the BBC4 iirc strap-line “everyone needs some where to think”.

[TheGog]

Stopped paying for my TV licence about 5 years ago, came to the door and told to bolt that was about a year ago

TV licence is a scam

[surreyhibbie]

It used to be the case that you needed a licence if you had a TV capable of receiving broadcasts.

whether you watched BBC or not. or even if you left it switched off permanently.

Obviously been updated more recently.

[marinello59]

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Stopped paying for my TV licence about 5 years ago, came to the door and told to bolt that was about a year ago

TV licence is a scam

Same with road tax. I don’t bother. I also deduct 20% from all my retail purchases and chuck the balance at the shop keeper. I figure if I don’t agree with a tax I simply don’t pay it, I’ll leave that to the mugs who are falling for their scams. Don’t get me started on council tax.

[Future17]

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None of those definitions are clear on football through clubs own online channels. All the references are to TV broadcasts and TV programmes, regardless of how you stream them, but there is nothing specific about whether games that aren’t being widely broadcast are counted as TV programmes.

A live event on an online subscription channel is clearly covered. I'm not following why you think it might not be. What about the Hibs games doesn't meet the criteria described on the licensing website?

[Aalborg Hibs]

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Pretty sure the license is only needed for any BBC output only, live or streamed from any device

Also, non payment is almost unenforceable in Scotland so don’t pay our imperial masters for their rank propaganda to be beamed into your home

Incorrect.

"in line with the definition of a tax, the licence fee is a compulsory payment which is not paid solely for access to BBC services. A licence is required to receive ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, satellite, or cable"

[Carheenlea]

The streamed games aren’t actually “live”. Slight delay in the feed.

[Nazz]

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Do some people still pay the TV licence? A nonsense that the BBC are claiming money for someone to watch Sky's channels for example. A 'licence' to be able to watch TV? Sounds like something the Chinese government would do.

Interesting observation but there is no TV licence needed to watch TV in China...

[Numptie]

One way of looking at this is that if you watch any broadcast service you can watch on a TV you need a licence. You don't need one if you only watch Netflix films or box sets, but if you turn to a channel (including all live football channels) and a programme is running you need a licence. You can watch the Simpsons on Ch4 (licence) but also on Disney+ (no licence). ALL live tv needs a licence.

[Andy74]

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One way of looking at this is that if you watch any broadcast service you can watch on a TV you need a licence. You don't need one if you only watch Netflix films or box sets, but if you turn to a channel (including all live football channels) and a programme is running you need a licence. You can watch the Simpsons on Ch4 (licence) but also on Disney+ (no licence). ALL live tv needs a licence.

Which is where I’m not convinced in the wording in respect of Hibs games being streamed.

Unless it’s a televised game these aren’t broadcast on a TV - the wording about online and streaming all reads as though it is covering you watching TV type broadcasts through those mediums.

If your local bowling club streamed some matches to its members would that need a TV licence? I’m not so sure on the wording as others are.

[Numptie]

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Which is where I’m not convinced in the wording in respect of Hibs games being streamed.

Unless it’s a televised game these aren’t broadcast on a TV - the wording about online and streaming all reads as though it is covering you watching TV type broadcasts through those mediums.

If your local bowling club streamed some matches to its members would that need a TV licence? I’m not so sure on the wording as others are.

Hibs have the broadcast rights via Sky and the SPFL. They are broadcasting a live programme (doesn't matter on what device) so you must have a broadcast licence.

[Juniper Greens]

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Which is where I’m not convinced in the wording in respect of Hibs games being streamed.

Unless it’s a televised game these aren’t broadcast on a TV - the wording about online and streaming all reads as though it is covering you watching TV type broadcasts through those mediums.

If your local bowling club streamed some matches to its members would that need a TV licence? I’m not so sure on the wording as others are.

As I said earlier in the thread. I specifically checked this with the authorities and can confirm a license is needed. For the bowling club example, if the device streaming the live event is plugged into the mains (power) then the venue needs a license, if it is not, then the device owner needs a license, registered to their home address.

I think the OP genuinely doesn't know, and doesn't want to get caught out, he's not asked whether people think the fee is fair, or if they even pay it. The answer to his question is "yes, you need a TV licence to stream a live sporting event using any service"

[Sir David Gray]

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Which is where I’m not convinced in the wording in respect of Hibs games being streamed.

Unless it’s a televised game these aren’t broadcast on a TV - the wording about online and streaming all reads as though it is covering you watching TV type broadcasts through those mediums.

If your local bowling club streamed some matches to its members would that need a TV licence? I’m not so sure on the wording as others are.

The content doesn't need to be broadcast on a TV for you to require a TV licence to watch it.

The law says you need to be covered by a TV Licence to:

• watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV, on any channel
• watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service (such as ITV Hub, All 4, YouTube, Amazon Prime Video, Now TV, Sky Go, etc.)
• download or watch any BBC programmes on iPlayer.

This applies to any device you use, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.

[Andy74]

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As I said earlier in the thread. I specifically checked this with the authorities and can confirm a license is needed. For the bowling club example, if the device streaming the live event is plugged into the mains (power) then the venue needs a license, if it is not, then the device owner needs a license, registered to their home address.

I think the OP genuinely doesn't know, and doesn't want to get caught out, he's not asked whether people think the fee is fair, or if they even pay it. The answer to his question is "yes, you need a TV licence to stream a live sporting event using any service"

I meant if the actual playing of bowls from the club was being broadcast to its members.

[Andy74]

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The content doesn't need to be broadcast on a TV for you to require a TV licence to watch it.

None of what you quoted is clear that a club game on their own online channel is included. That all refers to the broadcasting of TV programmes regardless of how and how you watch it.

Where’s the definition of what constitutes a TV programme?

[Sir David Gray]

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None of what you quoted is clear that a club game on their own online channel is included. That all refers to the broadcasting of TV programmes regardless of how and how you watch it.

Where’s the definition of what constitutes a TV programme?

OK clearly your interpretation of what's mentioned on the TV licence website differs massively to mine.

I think it's very clear that to have legally watched Livingston's PPV stream on Saturday you would need to have had a TV licence. I'm not too sure where the uncertainty comes from to be honest but happy to draw a line under it.

[blackpoolhibs]

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OK clearly your interpretation of what's mentioned on the TV licence website differs massively to mine.

I think it's very clear that to have legally watched Livingston's PPV stream on Saturday you would need to have had a TV licence. I'm not too sure where the uncertainty comes from to be honest but happy to draw a line under it.

Do you need a license if you watched saturday's game on iptv?

[Sir David Gray]

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Do you need a license if you watched saturday's game on iptv?

Probably although that's not legal in the first place so it's probably pretty irrelevant.

[Andy74]

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OK clearly your interpretation of what's mentioned on the TV licence website differs massively to mine.

I think it's very clear that to have legally watched Livingston's PPV stream on Saturday you would need to have had a TV licence. I'm not too sure where the uncertainty comes from to be honest but happy to draw a line under it.

The problem is, with my legal background here, the definitions are not explicit.

Unless I've just missed it there is nothing that I've seen that refers to the type of PPV service that is purely online and not being broadcast on TV.

All the references I can see to online and live sport are covering where you might watch a Sky broadcast on your laptop or phone.

There is little reference to anything other than TV programmes - and the many ways you can watch those TV programmes.

You might well be absolutely right and I don't care because I pay my licence but if you only watch something like Hibs TV and it is not being broadcast anywhere else then could you point to where this is expressly covered?

[Juniper Greens]

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The problem is, with my legal background here, the definitions are not explicit.

Unless I've just missed it there is nothing that I've seen that refers to the type of PPV service that is purely online and not being broadcast on TV.

All the references I can see to online and live sport are covering where you might watch a Sky broadcast on your laptop or phone.

There is little reference to anything other than TV programmes - and the many ways you can watch those TV programmes.

You might well be absolutely right and I don't care because I pay my licence but if you only watch something like Hibs TV and it is not being broadcast anywhere else then could you point to where this is expressly covered?

Can't believe this is still rumbling on...
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/Live-TV-and-how-you-watch-it
Quite a few of the frequent questions make it clear that Hibs TV would be included

Do I need a TV Licence to watch live TV programmes on an online-only TV channel?
Yes. Online-only TV channels still count as live TV, so you need a TV Licence if you’re watching or recording their programmes.

Do I need a TV Licence if I watch a programme on a delay?
Yes. If you record any programme on live TV, you need a TV Licence. Even if the device or technology you use creates a delay between when the programme is shown and when you watch it.

Do I need a TV Licence to watch satellite programmes broadcast from outside the UK or Channel Islands?
You need a TV Licence to watch or record live TV programmes on any channel or device, no matter where they are broadcast or distributed from. This includes satellite or online streamed programmes from outside the UK or Channel Islands, such as sporting events and foreign shows

[The Baldmans Comb]

What's a TV licence.😉

[spike220]

Never seen him make the the kickoff team. Waste of salary and total liability. Get him oot. Wage thief!!!!

[Sir David Gray]

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The problem is, with my legal background here, the definitions are not explicit.

Unless I've just missed it there is nothing that I've seen that refers to the type of PPV service that is purely online and not being broadcast on TV.

All the references I can see to online and live sport are covering where you might watch a Sky broadcast on your laptop or phone.

There is little reference to anything other than TV programmes - and the many ways you can watch those TV programmes.

You might well be absolutely right and I don't care because I pay my licence but if you only watch something like Hibs TV and it is not being broadcast anywhere else then could you point to where this is expressly covered?

Do I need a TV Licence to watch live TV programmes on an online-only TV channel?

Yes. Online-only TV channels still count as live TV, so you need a TV Licence if you’re watching or recording their programmes.

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-...w-you-watch-it

If you're looking for something which explicitly states that you require a licence to watch Livingston's PPV service then you won't find it but otherwise it could not be any clearer.

[Future17]

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The streamed games aren’t actually “live”. Slight delay in the feed.

That's true of all "live" televised events.

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None of what you quoted is clear that a club game on their own online channel is included. That all refers to the broadcasting of TV programmes regardless of how and how you watch it.

Where’s the definition of what constitutes a TV programme?

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The problem is, with my legal background here, the definitions are not explicit.

Unless I've just missed it there is nothing that I've seen that refers to the type of PPV service that is purely online and not being broadcast on TV.

All the references I can see to online and live sport are covering where you might watch a Sky broadcast on your laptop or phone.

There is little reference to anything other than TV programmes - and the many ways you can watch those TV programmes.

You might well be absolutely right and I don't care because I pay my licence but if you only watch something like Hibs TV and it is not being broadcast anywhere else then could you point to where this is expressly covered?

You've said you have a legal background. If your argument is that a live football match on an online subscription channel is not a "TV programme", simply because it is not being broadcast on a channel which you can receive on a traditional television set, you must have been a solicitor.

Anyway, the law relating to the TV Licence is (broadly) contained within the Communications Act 2003. That act defines a TV programme as:

"any programme (with or without sounds) which (a) is produced wholly or partly to be seen on television; and (b)consists of moving or still images or of legible text or of a combination of those things;"

On a bit of a tangent, threads like this really grind my gears. I don't mean that disrespectfully to the OP, as it's a reasonable question to raise with modern technology moving so quickly and a lot of us maybe sampling entertainment in new ways as a result of world events. However, every time the TV licence is mentioned on here, you're guaranteed anything from a trickle to a torrent of misinformation about its enforceability, usually from folk who will brazenly brag about not paying it from the comfortable anonymity of their user names. I'm intrigued as to what other criminal offences these people would happily admit to online, without any apparent regard to the potential impact on others reading, because they seem to think it makes them look special or important in some way.

To be clear, failure to pay for a TV licence without a valid reason is a criminal offence for which you can be fined. If you don't pay the fine you can (in theory) be sent to jail.

[JohnMcM]

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What's a TV licence.😉

We have a winner! Close the thread

[Andy74]

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Do I need a TV Licence to watch live TV programmes on an online-only TV channel?

Yes. Online-only TV channels still count as live TV, so you need a TV Licence if you’re watching or recording their programmes.

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-...w-you-watch-it

If you're looking for something which explicitly states that you require a licence to watch Livingston's PPV service then you won't find it but otherwise it could not be any clearer.

Yes of course it could be clearer.

The spirit of this is that it is looking to cover just about every way that you could watch a ‘TV’ programme.

Despite it being called Hibs TV I don’t think it was really intended to cover things like this.

If you watched no other source of TV and you ordered one PPV game on your laptop are you suggesting the proportionate intention here was to have that individual pay ten times the cost of the PPV to add a TV licence?

What sports, games, membership or audience level is the line drawn at under the requirements?

If I streamed the local 5s to some people on Zoom or similar do the viewers require a licence?

It is always better for the requirements to be very clear on what co stilted a TV programme or a TV channel.